Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023

[JennieM]

An old PDF promoting the Titan, showing seating configuration for five people in the sub, has been shared by NBC News deputy tech editor Ben Goggin.

“Only one person can extend their legs. This looks like hell folks,” he writes:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671209910753800221

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671220296500559873

Explorers Club speaks of ‘cause for hope’ in Titanic sub search – as it happened

Noises picked up by Canadian aircraft looking for missing tourist submersible but revised search produced ‘negative results’, say authorities; Explorers Club says data could potentially suggest ‘likely signs of life’

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzFUwtQXsAE7u1A?format=jpg&name=medium

 

[Emi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671221851068956672

 

[JDG]

What are reasons the sub could lose contact outside of a catastrophic event? From what I understand, it is navigated through use of text messaging. Would this sub be able to resurface without that navigation information?

Dead batteries is the simplest reason.

IIRC it has/had 7 ways to resurface, no sure what was required.

 

[10ofRods]

Sounds like they were well-informed of the risks

From what I can tell, none of the passengers would have had the engineering chops to correctly evaluate the systems on this small submersible. They could not have known that the preliminary testing, 7 years ago, rated it to 1400 meters or so beneath the ocean Not 3800-4000. They were very unlikely to have known that navigation was being done by sonar + texts from the pilot boat. Cell phones. No radios. No redundancy. Etc. Of course, I have no clue how far under water radio transmissions can travel - I do know that navy submarines have redundant communications systems.

And the ability to open the hatch from the inside, should it be necessary.

I don't think the passengers are able to adequately assess the total risk, they just know they're being warned that they could die doing this (like base jumping without any knowledge of how to evaluate the set-up; or, indeed, like going in for a new type of heart surgery.

IMO.

 

[ch_13]

Is there provision for a lawsuit once the waivers have been signed??

Sounds to me as if all outcomes were in the waiver, more than once.

Aside from the waiver issue, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that OceanGate is leveraged up the wazoo and is basically judgment proof.

And even if the company does have assets, would any suit be worth it considering these are billionaire families? They would get what, $5 or $10 million, after a years-long legal process that would just prolong their heartache and grief. It would be like you or me going through with a wrongful death suit for a $500 judgment.

 

[10ofRods]

Dead batteries is the simplest reason.

IIRC it has/had 7 ways to resurface, no sure what was required.

I hadn't read that it had more than a couple of ways of resurfacing. The first was to discard ballast and slowly rise to the surface. This was, I believe, the intended method. I also read that the pilot ship had, in the past, helped with a winch (they had technical difficulties in prior years as well).

It was already posted here, so I think it's okay if I post it again:

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Yes, it seems that the “off the shelf components” are probably not necessarily responsible for what’s happened, but are rather just indicative of a pattern of cutting corners in general for OceanGate.

I have no expertise, but saw others weighing in how unusual it would be to use a carbon fiber hull. In other industries, carbon fiber is sought after and very expensive. The experts have essentially stated however that the weight of heavy metal in hulls is your friend when getting to those depths of the oceans.

I can only imagine that OceanGate would only use carbon fiber to offset transport or launch costs, another example of cutting corners.

The hull is apparently made from a 5 inch thick tube of carbon fibre, with a titanium hemisphere bolted onto each end. The pressure hull would usually be made entirely from one material (usually steel or titanium), not a combination of materials. To my knowledge this design has never been used before, and certainly not at these depths and pressures. Making matters worse, the viewing port is almost twice the diameter of viewing ports on other subs, which also creates a potential weakpoint.

<modsnip - opinion stated as fact>

 

[Warwick1991]

It's not like it's a mix of scientists used to the deprivations and danger.

The youngest two passengers are wealthy businessman and his 19 year old son. I wonder if they had as good an understanding of the danger involved.

It's the father and son that have my greatest sympathy...

 

[linds1393]

An old PDF promoting the Titan, showing seating configuration for five people in the sub, has been shared by NBC News deputy tech editor Ben Goggin.

“Only one person can extend their legs. This looks like hell folks,” he writes:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671209910753800221

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671220296500559873

Explorers Club speaks of ‘cause for hope’ in Titanic sub search – as it happened

Noises picked up by Canadian aircraft looking for missing tourist submersible but revised search produced ‘negative results’, say authorities; Explorers Club says data could potentially suggest ‘likely signs of life’

www.theguardian.com

This is literal nightmare fuel. Absolutely not. My god... my soul hurts for these people....

 

[Warwick1991]

The hull is apparently made from a 5 inch thick tube of carbon fibre, with a titanium hemisphere bolted onto each end. The pressure hull would usually be made entirely from one material (usually steel or titanium), not a combination of materials. To my knowledge this design has never been used before, and certainly not at these depths and pressures. Making matters worse, the viewing port is almost twice the diameter of viewing ports on other subs, which also creates a potential weakpoint.

<modsnip - opinion stated as fact>

The potential for problems would not only be there for carbon fiber, but wherever dissimilar materials join, such as the joints between the titanium and the carbon fiber. The method of attachment would be critical, as well as corrosion. The viewport and its frame is another great point of vulnerability, especially considering it is underdesigned...

 

[Warwick1991]

I hadn't read that it had more than a couple of ways of resurfacing. The first was to discard ballast and slowly rise to the surface. This was, I believe, the intended method. I also read that the pilot ship had, in the past, helped with a winch (they had technical difficulties in prior years as well).

It was already posted here, so I think it's okay if I post it again:

A winch from the pilot ship is not really a practical method of retrieval unless there's a physical connection to the submersible. There has to be a method of releasing the ballast in an orderly manner; bobbing upward like a cork would have its own problems.

 

[anonypotomous]

Interesting info and opinions from a submarine expert. Twenty-year veteran US Navy Submarine Force.

 

[Warwick1991]

Canada sends navy ship with hyperbaric chamber​

View attachment 430171The search mission continues to expand, with Canada's Department of National Defence saying a number of vessels are on the way.

A Royal Canadian Navy ship equipped with a six-person mobile hyperbaric recompression chamber is en route.

If the sub is located, the recompression chambers on board this ship can be used to treat or prevent decompression sickness. When divers are exposed to rapid decreases in pressure, nitrogen forms bubbles in tissue and blood.

The ship, called the HMCS Glace Bay, is also carrying a medical team specialising in dive medicine.

A Canadian Coast Guard Ship, the Terry Fox, is already at the scene, and will soon be joined by two others, the Ann Harvey and the John Cabot.

The vessels will be on standby to load search and rescue equipment and personnel.

A Royal Canadian Air Force aircraft has already been providing support with surface and sub-surface search operations in the area.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65953941

The hyperbaric chamber would probably be used to treat hypothermia, not decompression sickness. If those aboard are still alive, they are in a pressurized environment. People with severe hypothermia from a variety of circumstances are taken/flown to hospitals with hyperbaric chambers to treat severe hypothermia. At the low temperatures involved, all aboard could die of hypothermia even before oxygen deprivation.

 

[Emi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671322077725356033

 

[JDG]

From what I can tell, none of the passengers would have had the engineering chops to correctly evaluate the systems on this small submersible. They could not have known that the preliminary testing, 7 years ago, rated it to 1400 meters or so beneath the ocean Not 3800-4000. They were very unlikely to have known that navigation was being done by sonar + texts from the pilot boat. Cell phones. No radios. No redundancy. Etc. Of course, I have no clue how far under water radio transmissions can travel - I do know that navy submarines have redundant communications systems.

And the ability to open the hatch from the inside, should it be necessary.

I don't think the passengers are able to adequately assess the total risk, they just know they're being warned that they could die doing this (like base jumping without any knowledge of how to evaluate the set-up; or, indeed, like going in for a new type of heart surgery.

IMO.

It would be on them to ask pertinent questions, demand enough proof to satisfy themselves of the risks/benefits.

If they didn’t, for whatever reason, it’s all on them.

Just an aside, I’ve been on a helicopter twice.

I would never do it again because I now know that the rotor is held on by 1 screw/rivet/whatever.

If that fails, you crash. Didn’t know that when I signed my waiver!

 

[JennieM]

I am sorry if I've missed it, but why have they not released the identity of the fifth person? Has their family not given permission?

 

[Warwick1991]

I am sorry if I've missed it, but why have they not released the identity of the fifth person? Has their family not given permission?

Upthread there's a post indicating the 5th person is Stockton Rush, the CEO of OceanGate.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I am sorry if I've missed it, but why have they not released the identity of the fifth person? Has their family not given permission?

The submersible is carrying five people: Hamish Harding, a billionaire and explorer, Paul-Henry (PH) Nargeolet, a French explorer, Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman, members of a prominent Pakistan family and OceanGate CEO and reported Titan pilot Stockton Rush.

Missing Titanic sub could run out of oxygen Thursday morning: officials

A growing number of ships and planes have joined the search for a submersible that has been missing since descending to the wreck of the Titanic on Sunday morning.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[SouthAussie]

Is there provision for a lawsuit once the waivers have been signed??

Sounds to me as if all outcomes were in the waiver, more than once.

I think the waiver can be challenged. Whether the challenge succeeds or not is up to the judge.

This legal opinion says ...


If you become injured after signing the waiver, the person or business that requested that you sign the waiver will assert the signed waiver as a defense. You have the right to challenge the waiver. There are conditions and circumstances where a judge may rule that the waiver is invalid. The judge will normally read the waiver very closely and interpret the waiver as narrowly as possible – because a waiver means that you are giving up a fundamental right. The judge will then look at your answers to the following questions ......

When I Sign a Waiver, Does It Mean I Can’t Sue?

There may be ways to contest a waiver of your right to hold defendants liable for negligence. Call Rocky McElhaney Law Firm today to learn if you have a claim.

www.rockylawfirm.com