TN TN - Chloie Leverette, 9, & Gage Daniel, 7, Unionville, 23 Sept 2012

[Crimson clover]

It's just creepy and weird enough to be a Duncan type snatch. Will just have to have faith.

BBM
It is the sole driving force of our existance here at WS, no?

Bump for Chloie and Gage.lease:

 

[SailorMoon]

Thinking of you two today. Where are you?? Light the way angels.

 

[Crimson clover]

I live very near the gulf coast, and I was pleased to see their missing poster was in the center position on the "Missing" bulletin board at Wal-mart today.

I, likewise, GannyP, made a point to visit my local Wal-Mart today...I had to catch my breath...their 'MISSING' little faces smiled back at me, too!

Then...I looked at everyone's children a little differently!

 

[Snufamonbobball]

This case is on NG right now.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Glad too see NG is FINALLY covering this one.


Nancy Grace

A massive deadly fire takes hold of a house- killing beloved grandparents. Also thought to be inside, a 9-yr-old girl and her 7-yr-old brother. But investigators don’t find a single trace of their remains: no bones, no ashes, nothing. So what happened to the little siblings? Where are Chloie & Gage? #UrgentMissingKids

 

[GateKeeper]

http://www.hlntv.com/shows/nancy-grace

After their house burned to the ground, two young siblings vanish without a trace.

Ya'll know how NG makes my teeth hurt :sick: ,,,,BUT,if she can shed any light on these two kiddos case,then she's alright by me.

 

[GateKeeper]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1211/15/ng.01.html

Here is the transcript from the NG sow.

NANCY GRACE

Children Missing After House Fire

Aired November 15, 2012 - 20:00 ET

Yes, the bodies of the grandparents were found in their bedroom, but only because relatives actually drew a diagram of the house. This was such a massive fire, it burned so destructively that there were very few traces of anybody found inside this house.

LOTS more at the link...

 

[GateKeeper]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1211/15/ng.01.html

O`DONNELL: We don`t have an exact cause of death yet. In fact the medical examiner in Tennessee has not made that cause. We know that the grandparents` bodies were found in the bedroom. As far as where the dog was, that I don`t believe was made clear. What I can tell you, though, is there was a tooth found inside the home that was initially believed to have possibly been from one of the children. It turned out to have been from the dog.

STILL no COD??

 

[GrainneDhu]

Mystery upon mystery.

It sounds like the grandparents were actually in their bedroom when the fire broke out. Chloie and Gage were still at ages where kids go to bed before their caretakers or at least at the same time. It was a Sunday night, so a school night. No reason to let the children stay up late.

That makes me wonder if the perp was watching the house, waiting until everyone's lights were out, snuck in, killed the grandparents in their bed (for instance, by cutting their throats, which would not necessarily leave evidence that would survive a fire), abducted Chloie and Gage, set the fire and left.

If it was someone who had been watching Chloie and Gage for a day or two, the perp would have known about the family dog and could have come prepared with meatballs to keep the dog quiet.

I'm really beginning to wonder about the propane tanks. In the beginning, I assumed someone would come forward and say "oh, Leon and Mollie collected abandoned empties for the deposits to make a little supplemental spending money." Or that they were in some home based business that included propane tanks (say, selling some type of propane grill).

More and more, though, I'm wondering if the perp brought the tanks into the house with the idea of creating a fire so intense it would wipe out all clues.

 

[OceanEyes]

Mystery upon mystery.

It sounds like the grandparents were actually in their bedroom when the fire broke out. Chloie and Gage were still at ages where kids go to bed before their caretakers or at least at the same time. It was a Sunday night, so a school night. No reason to let the children stay up late.

That makes me wonder if the perp was watching the house, waiting until everyone's lights were out, snuck in, killed the grandparents in their bed (for instance, by cutting their throats, which would not necessarily leave evidence that would survive a fire), abducted Chloie and Gage, set the fire and left.

If it was someone who had been watching Chloie and Gage for a day or two, the perp would have known about the family dog and could have come prepared with meatballs to keep the dog quiet.

I'm really beginning to wonder about the propane tanks. In the beginning, I assumed someone would come forward and say "oh, Leon and Mollie collected abandoned empties for the deposits to make a little supplemental spending money." Or that they were in some home based business that included propane tanks (say, selling some type of propane grill).

More and more, though, I'm wondering if the perp brought the tanks into the house with the idea of creating a fire so intense it would wipe out all clues.

This is exactly what I think happened.

 

[GateKeeper]

Darryl Cohen, when I ask about where were the parents and the answer is, Well, the dad`s got a criminal history -- well, I want to know that, all right? I`m not saying the father did it. But you show me somebody connected to this case with a rap sheet as long as I-16 -- you know, who goes and sets a house on fire? The nuns? The priest and the virgins? No.

Ok..I gotta say,this made me chuckle.

 

[GateKeeper]

Mystery upon mystery.

It sounds like the grandparents were actually in their bedroom when the fire broke out. Chloie and Gage were still at ages where kids go to bed before their caretakers or at least at the same time. It was a Sunday night, so a school night. No reason to let the children stay up late.

That makes me wonder if the perp was watching the house, waiting until everyone's lights were out, snuck in, killed the grandparents in their bed (for instance, by cutting their throats, which would not necessarily leave evidence that would survive a fire), abducted Chloie and Gage, set the fire and left.

If it was someone who had been watching Chloie and Gage for a day or two, the perp would have known about the family dog and could have come prepared with meatballs to keep the dog quiet.

I'm really beginning to wonder about the propane tanks. In the beginning, I assumed someone would come forward and say "oh, Leon and Mollie collected abandoned empties for the deposits to make a little supplemental spending money." Or that they were in some home based business that included propane tanks (say, selling some type of propane grill).

More and more, though, I'm wondering if the perp brought the tanks into the house with the idea of creating a fire so intense it would wipe out all clues.

You summed up my thoughts quite nicely GD...thanks!

 

[StormyNights]

Mystery upon mystery.

It sounds like the grandparents were actually in their bedroom when the fire broke out. Chloie and Gage were still at ages where kids go to bed before their caretakers or at least at the same time. It was a Sunday night, so a school night. No reason to let the children stay up late.

That makes me wonder if the perp was watching the house, waiting until everyone's lights were out, snuck in, killed the grandparents in their bed (for instance, by cutting their throats, which would not necessarily leave evidence that would survive a fire), abducted Chloie and Gage, set the fire and left.

If it was someone who had been watching Chloie and Gage for a day or two, the perp would have known about the family dog and could have come prepared with meatballs to keep the dog quiet.

I'm really beginning to wonder about the propane tanks. In the beginning, I assumed someone would come forward and say "oh, Leon and Mollie collected abandoned empties for the deposits to make a little supplemental spending money." Or that they were in some home based business that included propane tanks (say, selling some type of propane grill).

More and more, though, I'm wondering if the perp brought the tanks into the house with the idea of creating a fire so intense it would wipe out all clues.

ITA! I have often wondered as well why nobody seemed shocked or surprised that these poor people had 20 propane tanks in their basement. I also thought someone, family, neighbor even the local barber would say "Yep, that "Bubba sure like to collect those tanks" or something along those lines. Why hasn't LE really mentioned them? Like asking family and friends if they know why those were there? Maybe they have and just haven't said. I just can't wrap my head around this. Doesn't ANYONE but us care that there are 2 kids out there, somewhere??? I understand cases going cold, I truly do. But, isn't that when you go to the media and just scream at the top of you lungs for HELP??!! Why hasn't a COD been made yet? Are they keeping that close to the vest for a reason? Do they even know? I was shocked and honestly appalled at the number of missing people in that area! That is just MOO, nothing really to do with these two sweet hearts. Just an observation. Does anyone know, as of today, 11/18/2012, is the AA still active? If what Nursie said applies here, like in TX (I believe she said, sorry if I am wrong Nursie, I don't want a big needle!!) Who is entering their names every 24 hours? I am not complaining about that at all, I think it's GREAT that at the very least that is being done to draw attention to these kids. It truly seems these babies have just vanished into thin air :waitasec: Why are WE the only ones who seem to care? Why are WE the only ones still looking and wondering where Chloie and Gage are?? Man, I hope and pray that wherever these kids are, they are safe, being loved and taken very well care of lease: I just can't stand the thought they are suffering all this time. Ugh, this just drives me nuts, wondering where these two kids are! :banghead:

 

[GrainneDhu]

ITA! I have often wondered as well why nobody seemed shocked or surprised that these poor people had 20 propane tanks in their basement. I also thought someone, family, neighbor even the local barber would say "Yep, that "Bubba sure like to collect those tanks" or something along those lines. Why hasn't LE really mentioned them? Like asking family and friends if they know why those were there? Maybe they have and just haven't said. I just can't wrap my head around this. Doesn't ANYONE but us care that there are 2 kids out there, somewhere??? I understand cases going cold, I truly do. But, isn't that when you go to the media and just scream at the top of you lungs for HELP??!! Why hasn't a COD been made yet? Are they keeping that close to the vest for a reason? Do they even know? I was shocked and honestly appalled at the number of missing people in that area! That is just MOO, nothing really to do with these two sweet hearts. Just an observation. Does anyone know, as of today, 11/18/2012, is the AA still active? If what Nursie said applies here, like in TX (I believe she said, sorry if I am wrong Nursie, I don't want a big needle!!) Who is entering their names every 24 hours? I am not complaining about that at all, I think it's GREAT that at the very least that is being done to draw attention to these kids. It truly seems these babies have just vanished into thin air :waitasec: Why are WE the only ones who seem to care? Why are WE the only ones still looking and wondering where Chloie and Gage are?? Man, I hope and pray that wherever these kids are, they are safe, being loved and taken very well care of lease: I just can't stand the thought they are suffering all this time. Ugh, this just drives me nuts, wondering where these two kids are! :banghead:

The local medical examiner has apparently established a cause of death because there was a funeral for Leon and Mollie a couple weeks ago. Of course, the cause of death may have been "unknown." Depending on how badly burned the bodies were, it may not be possible to establish for sure the cause of death if it didn't involve breaking or scratching any bones. Which could include a gunshot, killing by knife or even being tied up with some type of material that burned easily. Something like cotton or hemp line rather than nylon or polypropylene which melts and clings.

The thing that bothers me is that Shasta Groene was rescued because an alert waitress noticed she looked like the missing girl. Without more media attention, who is going to recognise Chloie and Gage?

 

[No Stone Unturned]

From the NG show:

Now it`s certainly possible that there is a legitimate explanation for that but I haven`t heard it yet in the nearly two months of investigation into this case. I want to know why were there that many propane tanks in that basement.

If this was arson, then the perpetrator obviously knew the family well enough to know that there was a huge amount of propane being stored in the basement.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1211/15/ng.01.html

 

[Crimson clover]

Mystery upon mystery.

It sounds like the grandparents were actually in their bedroom when the fire broke out. Chloie and Gage were still at ages where kids go to bed before their caretakers or at least at the same time. It was a Sunday night, so a school night. No reason to let the children stay up late.

That makes me wonder if the perp was watching the house, waiting until everyone's lights were out, snuck in, killed the grandparents in their bed (for instance, by cutting their throats, which would not necessarily leave evidence that would survive a fire), abducted Chloie and Gage, set the fire and left.

If it was someone who had been watching Chloie and Gage for a day or two, the perp would have known about the family dog and could have come prepared with meatballs to keep the dog quiet.

I'm really beginning to wonder about the propane tanks. In the beginning, I assumed someone would come forward and say "oh, Leon and Mollie collected abandoned empties for the deposits to make a little supplemental spending money." Or that they were in some home based business that included propane tanks (say, selling some type of propane grill).

More and more, though, I'm wondering if the perp brought the tanks into the house with the idea of creating a fire so intense it would wipe out all clues.

It does appear the grandparents were actually in their bedroom...at least according to Dan O'Donnell on NG. All prior reports, I recall, stated the basement.
I do see this case playing out in the fashion you depict, GD, (GREAT POST!)...however...BBM

Agreeably... the 20 propane tanks are such a WTH? Without explanation, we are left in wonder. So...
How does the perp accomplish hauling 20 propane tanks into the home? After Mr. Leon & Mrs. Mollie are murdered? From a vehicle? Down the stairs, into the basement? All 20 tanks? A 'sole' perp? And where are Chloie and Gage at this point?

Or...were the tanks already there? And the perp knew it? Hhhmmm...

Lots and lots of questions I ponder...but, I keep thinking of these words...

The children’s aunt Joy Frame stated “I know someone did this, I know from things I can’t talk about, but I know someone did this. It was a homicide. There’s no doubt.”

 

[Indy Anna]

On Leon and Mollie's memorial FB page, someone commented underneath a picture of the family in front of the house that they never locked the front door; everyone was welcome. I wonder if that included at night? It's likely the perp was familiar with their habits.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Leon-bubba-an-mollie-mcclaran-memorial-page/142594729219751

I think the propane tanks were already in the basement. Why carry 20 down there? That would take a long time. I do think the perp may have gone into the basement after killing the grandparents and opened the valves on the tanks. MOO

Wish I could find the floor plan for the house. I don't remember anyone posting it. Just wondering where the grandparents' and the children's bedrooms were. On the main floor or on the second floor? Were any of the bedrooms located over the area of the tanks?

 

[GrainneDhu]

[/B]
It does appear the grandparents were actually in their bedroom...at least according to Dan O'Donnell on NG. All prior reports, I recall, stated the basement.
I do see this case playing out in the fashion you depict, GD, (GREAT POST!)...however...BBM

Agreeably... the 20 propane tanks are such a WTH? Without explanation, we are left in wonder. So...
How does the perp accomplish hauling 20 propane tanks into the home? After Mr. Leon & Mrs. Mollie are murdered? From a vehicle? Down the stairs, into the basement? All 20 tanks? A 'sole' perp? And where are Chloie and Gage at this point?

Or...were the tanks already there? And the perp knew it? Hhhmmm...

Lots and lots of questions I ponder...but, I keep thinking of these words...

The children’s aunt Joy Frame stated “I know someone did this, I know from things I can’t talk about, but I know someone did this. It was a homicide. There’s no doubt.”

Someone of average strength wearing leather gloves can carry two 25 pound propane tanks at a time. At least, I know I could before I became disabled (the leather gloves keeps the metal from biting the fingers).

I keep wondering if the McClarans collected abandoned propane tanks for the redemption value. The problem with that is that such tanks are usually empty or close to it (which makes them more explosive in a fire). I wonder if the perp brought along some full tanks to make sure the house fire burned hot.

As to what Chloie and Gage were doing while the perp was bringing up to 20 propane tanks into the house, I think they were probably tied up.

... actually, maybe the perp just put them in his vehicle and told them to stay there. Children are easy to intimidate; Dylan and Shasta Groene stayed in Duncan's vehicle while he finished killing their family because they were too scared to run. Children are taught to obey adults and what child doesn't know that if the adult in charge is in a bad mood it is best to be very obedient? This is not meant as victim blaming, it's meant as an observation on the nature of children's responses, which often differ from those of adults.

Maybe that is what Joy Frame is talking about; she knows that the McClarans normally didn't have 20 propane tanks in their basement.

Maybe the perp is someone who does collect empty propane tanks for spare cash. I wonder if there is some nearby redemption centre nearby that hasn't seen ol'So-and-so in an unusually long time.

 

[Crimson clover]

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think that -- the family has recently issued a $1,500 reward for information leading to the return of the children, and I think that that`s totally appropriate. It`s very difficult for law enforcement at this point in time to put too much resource into trying to locate children who may be dead. But I think a reward could help in other ways.


BBM...from the NG transcript...

I understand. But, golly geez...

Happy Thanksgiving, Chloie & Gage.

 

[carbuff]

I ran across this case by accident while reading some news websites tonight -- a house explosion with some similarities to this case: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...micide-investigation-20121119,0,5051932.story

Search warrants have been executed and officials are now looking for a white van that was seen in the subdivision on the day of the blast, Marion County Prosecutor Terry Curry said. Federal authorities are offering a $10,000 reward for information in the case.

Curry said the investigation is aimed at "determining if there are individuals who may be responsible for this explosion and fire," but neither he nor Coons took questions or indicated if investigators had any suspects. No arrests have been made.