TN TN - Chloie Leverette, 9, & Gage Daniel, 7, Unionville, 23 Sept 2012

[jaycee]

A few years ago a house burned down that belonged to my neighbours brother. Searches uncovered no remains. The family was frantic because his truck was still in the driveway and he had not shown up for work. They insisted upon another search and his body was located under debris in an area of the house they didn't expect him to be. It would seem he was sleeping on the couch.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thinking of the Josh Powell case. He poured ten gallons of gasoline around the living room and all three bodies were in the middle of the explosion and subsequent fire. They recovered bodies that were still intact enough to reveal that the boys did not die in the fire, they had both been killed before the fire.

It's hard to imagine a fire so complete that not one bit of remains could be found of either child.

 

[GrainneDhu]

this situation bothers me greatly. are there ground searches being conducted? what its the terrain in the surrounding areas like? RSOs in the area? seems that enough information is there now to at least err on the side of caution and actively search for these babies. the Amber alert is a terrific start, but where is front page-all out-feet on the ground searches and news coverage? praying for guardian angels.

I read that LE has been searching, both on foot and via helicopter. I think if either child was nearby, they would have been found.

I'm beginning to wonder if the children were maybe miles away by the time the fire was discovered.

 

[GateKeeper]

Or they mistakenly THOUGHT the children were still in the home.

If the kids accidentally started the fire and then ran, the Grandparents would not know that.

If someone came in and abducted the kids without the Grandparents knowing, then set the fire to cover up evidence.
The Grandparents would not know that either.

If a fire starts in your house the first thing you do is get everyone out.
I don't think they would have just run out of the house without getting the kids... and I don't think they would have assumed the kids escaped.

Hopefully the autopsy will tell us if they were alive when the fire started. That might give us a few more hints.

I do wonder if maybe the autopsy DID show that, which is why they issued an Amber Alert for the kids?

BBM
This was my thought in the beginning. But now Im just not sure.
If the lil ones ran off after the fire started,I would think they would have been found by now. IMO..of course.
If they werent in the fire...my guess is,they were taken by "someone" and the house was torched.

 

[Indy Anna]

I read that LE has been searching, both on foot and via helicopter. I think if either child was nearby, they would have been found.

I'm beginning to wonder if the children were maybe miles away by the time the fire was discovered.

BBM If the children were abducted, they were likely hundreds of miles away ... possibly out of the country ... by the time LE issued the Amber Alert. If this was a crime, it could well be the perfect crime because it took so long for questions to arise about whether the children actually perished in the fire.

 

[debirlfan]

One thing that seems odd - googling around for local news stories on this, there seem to be very few comments. Usually if a tragic fire or something happens, there are always neighbors and friends weighing in. This time, nothing. It makes me wonder if the grandparents were new to the area, or perhaps kept to themselves and weren't well known?

That could back up the "survivalist" speculation - and if they weren't friendly with the neighbors, that could also be a reason that the kids wouldn't go to them for help if they escaped the fire.

 

[fraudqueen]

I can't understand why we aren't hearing anything about this. Hopefully, with all reporters back at work on national news tomorrow, the word will get out more. I only heard about it here in Florida yesterday and I have the news on 24/7.

 

[Indy Anna]

http://www.jacksonsun.com/viewart/2...k-leads-about-two-children-missing-since-fire
~snipped~

TBI spokeswoman Kristin Helm said Friday that the alert had not been sent to other states.

“We don’t know where they are,” Helm said Friday. “We don’t have any indication that they’re in another state.”

~snipped~

Forensic teams from Middle Tennessee State University and the University of Tennessee at Knoxville had been brought in to help in the search.

Christopher Garrett, a spokesman for the State Fire Marshal’s office, said he did not have any information on a cause of the fire.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

i'm waiting for two pieces of information.

1. cause/manner of death of grandparents.
2. cause of the fire.

a perpetrator could have kidnapped the the children and started the fire

http://www.jacksonsun.com/viewart/2...k-leads-about-two-children-missing-since-fire

from link => Two bodies tentatively identified as 72-year-old Leon “Bubba” McClaran and his wife, 70-year-old Molli McClaran, were recovered Monday and have been sent to the Nashville medical examiner’s office for autopsy.

Christopher Garrett, a spokesman for the State Fire Marshal’s office, said he did not have any information on a cause of the fire.

 

[gngr~snap]

Some considerations about the propane tanks:

How long had they been stored in the basement?​

How were the tanks transported? Who transported them?​

How were the tanks stored?​

If the tanks were recently delivered -- or maybe the tanks were delivered individually at different times -- one may have become damaged during transport. There could have been an undetected leak (maybe the tanks weren't inspected after delivery) and the children were near the tanks playing with something that caused a spark.

If there was a propane leak, the family bird probably had already died from the fumes. So, unless the leak was new, the grandparents would have known something was wrong.

Once the fire started, could the intense heat have caused the other tanks to explode? This is what I was initially thinking had happened after the fire started.

You are right! Is it just canaries? Or ALL small birds? I was warned not to keep my budgies/parakeets in the kitchen because we have a gas stove...
http://www.petcaretips.net/canary-coal-mine.html
Gas leak detection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/pet_birds/tips/pet_bird_housing.html

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

I keep coming back to a few things with this story...

One, they are referred to as step-grandparents to these children. I'm trying to figure out what that means...They both have the same mother, but different fathers. So how is the mother of these children related to this couple? I'm not quite able to piece that together...

My initial thought was this had to be a custody dispute, and that the children must have been abducted by their non-custodial parents. But that doesn't seem to be the case, since LE says the mother of both children has been cleared, and it wouldn't make sense for either one of the biological fathers to take both children. They would presumably only be interested in taking their own.

I don't have any reason, at this point, to believe that the children perished in the fire, and I'm reasonably sure that, with the search efforts underway, they would have been found if they fled the house. Still, LE has stated they do not suspect foul play was involved, so who knows.

The propane tanks-could those have been placed there by someone who wanted the grandparents dead, thinking it would act as an accelerent? Pretty far fetched, granted, but I'm thinking that if the grandparents were found in the basement with the propane tanks, I can picture a scenerio where they were forced down there at gunpoint, or murdered and placed there, thinking that the propane tanks would cause an explosion. To ensure death, cover up a homicide, make it seem like the children died in the fire, or any number of reasons.

This is just incredibly bizarre and horific. Where are these children?

 

[TripleA]

I belive it is only the grandmother who is a step, the grandfather is bio. IMO they are both just grandparents, especially since they seem to have raised the kids together.

 

[bdawk20]

I haven't posted on this case, but I've been keeping up. This case scares the bejesus out of me.....there's something just so creepy about this. I so hope they find these children unharmed.

 

[GrainneDhu]

When I lived in a Big Ten university town, tailgating at home football games was very popular. People didn't just bring picnics, many would bring a grill and cook right there.

Amazingly enough, some people just abandon their empty or almost empty propane tanks right there. Walking round to the popular parking areas, it was easy to find abandoned propane tanks to sell back to stores.

I wonder if maybe Mr and Mrs McClaren were collecting abandoned tanks to turn in for cash.

According to the following article, Chloie's father is dead. Gage's father is alive and talking to the media. I haven't found any stories that quote Chloie and Gage's mother but she is not considered a suspect (LE says she does not have the children); I imagine she's overwhelmed with grief and confusion.

http://www.t-g.com/story/1898390.html

 

[carbuff]

When I lived in a Big Ten university town, tailgating at home football games was very popular. People didn't just bring picnics, many would bring a grill and cook right there.

Amazingly enough, some people just abandon their empty or almost empty propane tanks right there. Walking round to the popular parking areas, it was easy to find abandoned propane tanks to sell back to stores.

I wonder if maybe Mr and Mrs McClaren were collecting abandoned tanks to turn in for cash.

According to the following article, Chloie's father is dead. Gage's father is alive and talking to the media. I haven't found any stories that quote Chloie and Gage's mother but she is not considered a suspect (LE says she does not have the children); I imagine she's overwhelmed with grief and confusion.

http://www.t-g.com/story/1898390.html

I've seen the same thing after the NFL football games we've been to, and I've seen people going around collecting the abandoned tanks. I hadn't made the connection until you pointed it out.

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

I belive it is only the grandmother who is a step, the grandfather is bio. IMO they are both just grandparents, especially since they seem to have raised the kids together.

Thanks for clarifying! And yes, I'm sure it made little difference for the two children whether they were "step" or not, since it looks like they provided both of them with such a loving home. I was just trying to figure that living arrangement out in terms of possible POI's. But at this point it looks like this has nothing to do with custody.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've seen the same thing after the NFL football games we've been to, and I've seen people going around collecting the abandoned tanks. I hadn't made the connection until you pointed it out.

It always amazed me because the deposit on those tanks is pretty hefty. My brother was a teen when barbecue tanks for grills became popular and he could make enough money in 5 or 6 home games as his friends made by working 3 months part time.

Since the McClains lived in the country, maybe they only took the accumulated tanks in periodically so as to cut down on vehicle fuel costs.

 

[GateKeeper]

http://www.fireengineering.com/news...ound-with-step-grandparents-in-burned-fa.html

Sorry if this has already been posted. I thought it had alot of good info.

 

[carbuff]

It always amazed me because the deposit on those tanks is pretty hefty. My brother was a teen when barbecue tanks for grills became popular and he could make enough money in 5 or 6 home games as his friends made by working 3 months part time.

Since the McClains lived in the country, maybe they only took the accumulated tanks in periodically so as to cut down on vehicle fuel costs.

It's not just football games either. One guy who was collecting at the NFL game said he got even more after things like auto races and rock concerts. His best haul was usually after the big country music weekend. But anyplace people were cooking out of their cars.

I don't understand it either. The deposit around here (New England) is often more than the cost of the gas. Plus you can get them refilled.

One thing I wondered about is, if they were storing tanks to take back all at once, if there was water in the basement and one of the tanks might have rusted through? They think the grill's tank rusting through over the winter was what caused a nasty fire near here last spring.

 

[palaminodee]

It still just bugs me that 20 tanks were stored in the house?
Who keeps 20 propane tanks, let alone stores them in their house?

If you go to refill them, they are kept outdoors of the store and for a very good reason.
Safety.

Plus, you are all correct, they are very expensive!

Baffling...