TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren,44, Signal Mountain, 30 April, 2011 - #11

[glorias]

From Peliman's link:

"If Henderson detectives find Koecher and he does not want officers to notify his family, they won't. They will honor that request and remove him from the National Criminal Information Computer, also known as NCIC, as a missing person, just as they would with any other adult who walked away and wants to stay away. Case closed."

Ah, clarity! Thanks for the quote. Speaking for myself, if we see LE close the case and Gail removed from NCIC, then I'll believe she's off living her own life and doesn't want to be found.

 

[BeanE]

Again I am trying to get my head around something, the theory that the LE have decided that Gail is setting up a new life and have put this case on the back burn and will only look more into the case if something crops up.

You seem to be referring, in part, to one of my posts upthread, because you're repeating some wording I used, in part, and the rest, I don't know where you got it from.

So, just to make sure that nobody is misstating what I posted, I want to say this -

I do not think that LE has "decided" that Gail is setting up a new life. My understanding of how LE works, is that over the course of an investigation, as they gather information, they come up with a primary theory of what most likely happened to the person.

#1 - If they determine indications of foul play, they try to identify the most likely perpetrator of the crime. They try to find more and more evidence to confirm their theory, and that can be used at trial.

#2 - If they determine there are no indications of foul play, with a missing adult, they proceed on the premise that the person left willingly. They don't close the case, because the person is still missing. They continue investigating as any leads develop, tips come in, etc., but after a time, the case drops in priority, particularly if no new information develops.

If at any point they do find indications of foul play, they go to #1.

Again, that's just my understanding, and of course, I could have it all wrong.

In any case, what I am saying is different from what I see others saying, which seems arguing against a theory that LE knows or has decided that Gail is alive and building a new life.

I am in full agreement that LE doesn't know (as I've stated) and has not decided (as I've now stated) that Gail is alive and building a new life.

 

[McSpy]

I think MP was worried she wanted full custody of the kids, because as soon as she went missing he went to court to get custody. This is all speculation, but he sure moved super fast on that! There was no hesitation. He got the job done.

This case is almost too obvious. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Just my opinion

 

[Pearl*]

I think this is one of the those statements we tend to filter through the lens of our assumptions, somewhat like what Pearl was referring to a few posts back. If we believe that MP and his attorneys are up to no good we immediately assume this refers to nefarious behavior on their part to cover up. If not, we read it much like you did, assuming it refers to files that could have been deleted in the normal manner of use by anyone using the computer.

None of us knows which is true, but it's always bugged me that this statement has been used to assume that MP and his attorneys were erasing incriminating files. I'm not saying that couldn't have happened, but this statement alone does not mean that did happen. Yet it's one of those things that seems to be assumed as fact by many.

Many? My recollection is that one or two people think it means files were erased.

[bbm]

Hmmm. I read Blue Moc's post differently. I thought the reference was to "many" in general and not necessarily limited to people who post here. Either way, though, I think we're still back to trying to analyze the facts from all angles, which is a good thing.

 

[BeanE]

If you look at the weeks leading up to Gail’s disappearance there is no doubt she was planning on leaving MP, not her life and children. So for her to make that change in a few hours just seems amazing. I would have thought for someone to have made such a successful” leave my life behind” move and not be seen or heard of for nearly 5 months there would have had to have been a lot of planning, setting up etc.

1) Find housing.
2) Get a fake identity.
3) Get rid of the Jeep and purchase new vehicle.
4) Set up a new bank account. (Do you need and ID to set up
accounts in the US?)
5) Find employment (apart from sweat shop sort of work can you get
a job in the US without valid ID)
6) Buy whole new wardrobe (it didn’t sound like she took clothing with
her but I could be wrong)
7) Change looks
8) Be mentally prepared to cut off all contact with loved ones
including children (that’s a biggie in my eyes) and be prepared for
media attention given to you being a missing person.

Now I know it is very possible to create a whole new life and not be found if that is what you want, but do we really believe that it can be done easily and without the chance of being found if not fully planned for.

It's very quick and easy for a woman these days, thank God, and thanks to the laws that are now in place. A good place to start researching is with the Violence Against Women Act.

A woman can call that number, and literally, within minutes, a worker from the organization will come and get her.

The woman needs nothing. She can come with just the clothes on her back. Some women have been picked up and taken to shelters naked even after running from their abuser.

The woman doesn't have to give her name. The law protects her from having to do so. She can give a fake name, or no name at all.

The shelter will help her through the entire process of establishing a new identity. A new name, an ID, welfare and food stamps until she gets a job, medicaid, help finding schooling or a job when she is able to, an attorney, counseling - everything.

The workers at the shelter will not tell anyone she is there - not even LE.

It's very important to me that women understand how shelters operate, so that if they need help, they will not hesitate for a minute to call a shelter organization.

 

[Annie_61]

Sorry BeanE I wasn’t replying to your post, there have been a few all over the net that imply a new life for Gail. So it might be one of many that triggered my thinking regarding that and what it would take to start a new life and the LE’s actions. So I didn’t quote your post because I am not replying to it. My thinking was more on thoughts about the computer and just my thoughts, as to what information might be on them regarding Gail going off on a new life. I would provide a link to my head but being an Australian it might just scare to many of you.

 

[Annie_61]

It's very quick and easy for a woman these days, thank God, and thanks to the laws that are now in place. A good place to start researching is with the Violence Against Women Act.

A woman can call that number, and literally, within minutes, a worker from the organization will come and get her.

The woman needs nothing. She can come with just the clothes on her back. Some women have been picked up and taken to shelters naked even after running from their abuser.

The woman doesn't have to give her name. The law protects her from having to do so. She can give a fake name, or no name at all.

The shelter will help her through the entire process of establishing a new identity. A new name, an ID, welfare and food stamps until she gets a job, medicaid, help finding schooling or a job when she is able to, an attorney, counseling - everything.

The workers at the shelter will not tell anyone she is there - not even LE.

It's very important to me that women understand how shelters operate, so that if they need help, they will not hesitate for a minute to call a shelter organization.

Do they still run a missing persons case when they do that?
Now this time I was asking about your post so I quoted it, just to save confusion

 

[BeanE]

If they find Gail hiding in another state and she refuses to let anyone know of her whereabouts, LE will still tell the family that they located her. However, they may not disclose her location, because of her wishes.

If Gail is in a shelter, and LE finds out, and Gail doesn't want anyone to know she has been found, LE will not tell anyone - not even family.

 

[McSpy]

If Gail is in a shelter, and LE finds out, and Gail doesn't want anyone to know she has been found, LE will not tell anyone - not even family.

I didn't think of that . . In the case you mentioned, it is usually because she is afraid of a family member, or if any other family member finds out her location, they may tell the person she is running from accidently, or purposely. I doubt this is the case with Gail though. It just seems too extreme for Gail not to let her sister know her whereabouts. I can see her being afraid of her husband and anyone associated with him. Yet, I guess one never knows for sure, until we find her.

 

[BeanE]

Do they still run a missing persons case when they do that?
Now this time I was asking about your post so I quoted it, just to save confusion

Yes, if the person has been reported missing, there will be a missing person case.

Again, a woman who goes to a shelter can change her identity, the shelter will help her do that and build a new life, and the woman does not have to contact anyone - not even LE.

Since a woman doesn't have to give her name, or anything else, the shelter may not even realize they have someone there who has an open missing person case.

The woman can be in a shelter on the other side of the country, and/or have altered her appearance.

Women are protected by law in order to save their lives, in order to keep them from being murdered.

Keep in mind that some women in shelters are escaping from abusers who are LEOs or friends of LEOs. Hence the laws protecting the shelter workers and the women from having to reveal that they are there.

The shelter organizations don't even have to identify their locations - their houses and apartments that the women live in - to LE any more. And those locations are very carefully guarded. You can't imagine the nightmare when an abuser shows up at one coming after his victim. That doesn't happen nearly as often as it used to, thank God.

 

[BeanE]

I didn't think of that . . In the case you mentioned, it is usually because she is afraid of a family member, or if any other family member finds out her location, they may tell the person she is running from accidently, or purposely. I doubt this is the case with Gail though. It just seems too extreme for her not to let her sister know her whereabouts. I can see her being afraid of her husband and anyone associated with him. Yet, I guess one never knows for sure until we find her.

Many women don't contact beloved family members because they are afraid the person will slip, or because they don't want to put them in that awkward and uncomfortable position. It's extremely difficult and painful for them.

It can change over time though - once some time has passed, the woman may feel her circumstances are solid enough and safe enough that she can contact a loved one.

 

[Shelby1]

I didn't think of that . . In the case you mentioned, it is usually because she is afraid of a family member, or if any other family member finds out her location, they may tell the person she is running from accidently, or purposely. I doubt this is the case with Gail though. It just seems too extreme for Gail not to let her sister know her whereabouts. I can see her being afraid of her husband and anyone associated with him. Yet, I guess one never knows for sure, until we find her.

Believe me, I had my eyes totally opened after following the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco. And, as strange as it may seem, if LE knows that an adult is alive and well and has chosen to leave on his/her own, they will not tell anyone where that adult is.

I do not believe this is the case, however, with Gail.

 

[Oriah]

Believe me, I had my eyes totally opened after following the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco. And, as strange as it may seem, if LE knows that an adult is alive and well and has chosen to leave on his/her own, they will not tell anyone where that adult is.

I do not believe this is the case, however, with Gail.

There has been much speculation about what LE would do upon the advent of discovering that a missing adult of legal age, without any special needs or other mitigating circumstances, and with no indications of foul play would do, should they locate the missing person and the missing person says "Yep- I chose to leave and not tell anyone where or why. And I would like it to stay that way."

So I'm going to put in my 2 cents here. Keep in mind that all LEA's are made up of individuals, just like us- so you're gonna have those that have preconceived notions about a missing persons case, those that don't, and those that are on the fence.

-Those that have had a preconceived notion of a case are gonna be angry, and probably seek to recover costs expended in the course of their investigation, lol.

-Those that don't have a preconceived notion are gonna say- "Ok, glad you're not dead- enjoy your new life, and I'll stand on the 'HIPPA Act For Missing Persons' position when anyone asks about your case. But you might want to re-evaluate not letting the people who love you know that you're safe."

-And those that have been on the fence, are gonna say- "Okay. I guess. But I'm not sure you're telling me the entire truth, and I'm concerned about why that might be. So until I'm convinced that no crime has taken place here, your file is gonna sit on my desk- and I'm going to tell your family and friends that it's still an open case, but that unfortunately I have no further info at this time."

My experience only- and not a reflection of my opinion on Gail's case- just an observation after working with LE on MP's cases.

 

[BeanE]

Believe me, I had my eyes totally opened after following the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco. And, as strange as it may seem, if LE knows that an adult is alive and well and has chosen to leave on his/her own, they will not tell anyone where that adult is.

I do not believe this is the case, however, with Gail.

BBM.

I don't think that's strange when it comes to adults with certain medical needs, or who are abused, or where there is evidence of a MFH plot against them.

(There's a whole 'nother set of laws that kicks in for men and women where there is evidence of a MFH plot against them. Basically, they can go into hiding, change their identity, receive certain services, etc, but there are some differences from the Violence Against Women laws. e.g., one of the differences is that a woman claiming abuse doesn't have to provide evidence of abuse, but for men/women claiming a MFH plot is in place against them, there has to be evidence if I understand it correctly. I am not as familiar with the MFH laws/procedures/services as I am with the DV laws/procedures/services.)

 

[Emeralgem]

I suspect Gail may have very well come to the sad realization her husband had hired someone to kill her...What I am afraid of is she may not have realized that to be the case until it was too late... Oh how I pray I am wrong.JMHO

LE needs to find a way to interview her two children..

 

[BeanE]

Posting for reference:

Compendium of Research on Violence Against Women, 1993-Present
by National Institute of Justice
July 2011

This regularly updated compendium lists and briefly describes all of the projects funded under NIJ's Violence Against Women and Family Violence Program.

Download the complete Compendium (pdf, 189 pages) or by section:

Category A: Justice & Related Systems (pdf, 75 pages). Subtopics include:
Advocacy
Arrest and Prosecution
Offender Interventions
Courts & the Criminal Justice System
Courts & the Civil Justice System
Forensic and Investigative Methods
Protection Orders
Policy and Legislation
Victim Services

Category B: Definition & Measurement (pdf, 11 pages). Subtopics include:
Development of Risk Assessment Instruments
Context, Meaning and Motive

Category C: Epidemiology (pdf, 18 pages). Subtopics include:
National Surveys
Databases
Secondary Data Analysis of National Surveys Examining Risk Factors for Violence Against Women
Risk Factors for Homicide and Serious Injury

Category D: Social and Cultural Context (pdf, 44 pages). Subtopics include:
Specific Populations
VAW and Welfare
Domestic Violence and Children
Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children
Drug and Alcohol Use, and Criminal Histories
Context and Life Course

Category E: Trafficking in Persons (pdf, 8 pages)

Category F: VAWA Evaluations (pdf, 15 pages)

Category G: Synthesis of Existing Information (pdf, 5 pages)

Category H: NIJ Jointly Funded Projects (pdf, 9 pages)

Category I: Teen Dating Violence (pdf, 8 pages)

http://www.nij.gov/nij/pubs-sum/vaw-compendium.htm

 

[believe09]

Early on, I remember discussing that there may have been some knowledge from those attending her Alanon meeting of what her plans were. Alanon/AA works the same way the shelters work-what happens there, stays there. It is not discussed with LE.

Would people break that promise? Sure, but the premise is that the information contained with in the meetings is strictly confidential.

 

[Oriah]

Early on, I remember discussing that there may have been some knowledge from those attending her Alanon meeting of what her plans were. Alanon/AA works the same way the shelters work-what happens there, stays there. It is not discussed with LE.

Would people break that promise? Sure, but the premise is that the information contained with in the meetings is strictly confidential.

That's always been of interest to me, believe09.
I'm pretty familiar with Al-Anon and AA (alcoholic family member. Fun! NOT.)

But the irony of both (which I fully support, btw, because I truly believe helps thousands of people get and stay sober) is that 'relapse' rates are high. Same is true with domestic violence situations.

So while the premise is that 'what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas'... not so much. Because people talk. And they especially talk when under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

MVHO, of course.

 

[Emeralgem]

Early on, I remember discussing that there may have been some knowledge from those attending her Alanon meeting of what her plans were. Alanon/AA works the same way the shelters work-what happens there, stays there. It is not discussed with LE.

Would people break that promise? Sure, but the premise is that the information contained with in the meetings is strictly confidential.

My understanding is IF she confided in anyone in Al-Anon they are not talking except possibly among themselves.. IF anyone has spoken to LE they are not talking about that either...JMHO...

ETA.. I do know many were and are still very concerned about her safety... Am I allowed to state that tidbit of information? Mods, If not, please delete..TY

 

[Emeralgem]

That's always been of interest to me, believe09.
I'm pretty familiar with Al-Anon and AA (alcoholic family member. Fun! NOT.)
But the irony of both (which I fully support, btw, because I truly believe helps thousands of people get and stay sober) is that 'relapse' rates are high. Same is true with domestic violence situations.

So while the premise is that 'what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas'... not so much. Because people talk. And they especially talk when under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

MVHO, of course.

BBM.. Dark Red I agree wholeheartedly..

My understanding is Gail was involved with Al-Anon, and not a member of AA.
<modsnip>.JMHO