TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren,44, Signal Mountain, 30 April, 2011 - #11

[redfish]

Respectfully snipped for space, ThoughtFox- and bolded by me:

<Remember that she was with MP when the police gave her cards about going to a safe place. AD had nothing to do with that.

>

I have been rather perplexed by this report for some time now.

I don't know what sort of LEA would provide info for 'safe places' to a suspected victim, potential victim, or concerned individual while in the company of the person they are uncomfortable with??

That's not a LE bash at all- just a head scratcher. I mean- that just seems like a very ineffective idea. Kwim?[/QUOTE]

I was once in a similar situation. The responding officers did pull me aside and give me a card and tried to get me to take steps to protect myself right then. I refused, they insisted I keep the card and information handy. They then took me home themselves. They were not happy that he would be returning to the same home. Knowing what I know now and having finally distanced myself from the relationship, I can see their frustration with me then.

 

[cocomod]

Although most anyone who has followed this from the start has probably heard all the reasons you listed, there are several of them that have only been stated by Arlene D and have never been shown to be factual.

1. No one knows how much money she may have left with. As much planning as we have been told she was doing, she may have gone to the lake on the 29th to dig up a coffee can stuffed with $100 bills. We just don't know.2. We do not know that she was abused. Again Arlene D claims it, but none of Gail's other friends have said that. Neither has her sister or brother.

3. She does appear to be preparing for a divorce. According to the interviews Arlene has given, it seems that Arlene was encouraging Gail to gather 'evidence', even going so far as to put a tracker on Matt's car, which I believe is an illegal act.

4. She claimed to have been being followed, and even wrote down lic. Plate numbers. I think it was Suzy Button who said she saw a strange car once, but that really could have been anything. We don't have enough info to determine if she was really being followed.

5. He was having an affair.

6. There has been no proof that Matt took ANY money, be it his, her's or theirs. Once again, Arlene D is the only person who has said this. If there is missing money, it could be that Gail put it in her coffee can. We don't know.

7. To my knowledge Matt never announced anything disparaging about Gail. he has only done one press conference and did not do so then. Matt's attorneys filed court docs which claimed Gail was having mental issues, and listed meds she was being prescribed. Matt did not release those papers to the general public. Once again, that would be Arlene D.

8. I don't think that any one of us can possibly know if or what Matt has done to help find Gail. If anyone can claim to absolutely know for sure, then I would love to hear how they came into that knowledge.

9. Numerous people hire attorneys each day. Many hire CD attorneys, and do so for many varying reasons. If I needed an attorney, I would ask around and want to know who was considered the best attorney in my area. That is the one I would hire. It would not matter if that attorney was a CD, a family or even a corporate, if they were the best, I could afford them, and they were willing to take me on, that is who I would hire. iIt only seems logical, and I would think most anyone would do the same.

BBM Noone knows how much money she left with, but we do know that she had hundreds of thousands of dollars in an account in her name that she did NOT take with her. $100 dollar bills in a can could not add up to the amount of money that was rightfully hers left behind. JMHO

We do know that she was at least feeling abused - she called the police. Police had to come to the home numerous times. That is public knowledge, not from AD. Verbally abused is still abuse.

Also, #9 - hiring an attorney for divorce is one thing, but hiring a criminal attorney is something completely different. You don't just hire a criminal attorney on a whim. Again JMHO

 

[Oriah]

Respectfully snipped from redfish's post:

<I was once in a similar situation. The responding officers did pull me aside and give me a card and tried to get me to take steps to protect myself right then. I refused, they insisted I keep the card and information handy. They then took me home themselves. They were not happy that he would be returning to the same home. Knowing what I know now and having finally distanced myself from the relationship, I can see their frustration with me>

Redfish, would you be willing to share a few more details about your situation with us? Was the PD or SO who responded to the situation specifically a DV unit or DV officer(s)?
Did the responding officer(s) follow up with you after the incident, to see how you were doing? TIA.

(And O/T- I am glad you are safe. )

 

[Emeralgem]

We know MM picked up computers from the Signal Mtn residence and the lake house residence, do we know IF any of the computers picked up by MM was a personal computer of Gail's?
Also, where is Arlene's computer? Was it picked up by MM too or has that computer just vanished also?

 

[redfish]

Respectfully snipped from redfish's post:

<I was once in a similar situation. The responding officers did pull me aside and give me a card and tried to get me to take steps to protect myself right then. I refused, they insisted I keep the card and information handy. They then took me home themselves. They were not happy that he would be returning to the same home. Knowing what I know now and having finally distanced myself from the relationship, I can see their frustration with me>

Redfish, would you be willing to share a few more details about your situation with us? Was the PD or SO who responded to the situation specifically a DV unit or DV officer(s)?
Did the responding officer(s) follow up with you after the incident, to see how you were doing? TIA.

(And O/T- I am glad you are safe. )

Thank you for the well-wishes.. it was long ago but never forgotten experience. The incident I speak of was violent and in public. Officers were called by third party. I assume now, after the fact, that they were from a DV unit called out due to the violence and the presence of a weapon. But NO, there was no follow-up. I honestly don't know if my situation would have lasted as many years as it did if they had followed up. I wish there would be more follow up on DV cases perhaps more women could be saved.

 

[Oriah]

Thank you for the well-wishes.. it was long ago but never forgotten experience. The incident I speak of was violent and in public. Officers were called by third party. I assume now, after the fact, that they were from a DV unit called out due to the violence and the presence of a weapon. But NO, there was no follow-up. I honestly don't know if my situation would have lasted as many years as it did if they had followed up. I wish there would be more follow up on DV cases perhaps more women could be saved.

Thank you for sharing that info, redfish.
And again- I am so glad you are here with us to share your thoughts on this.

 

[believe09]

To add to the discussion on the process LE may follow with a domestic situation-

Several threads ago, I mentioned a friend of mine who was involved in a confrontation and she had to flee her house with her children. Her house was across the street from her neighbors-she brought her two toddlers and her infant with her to the neighbor's house. What led to the confrontation was that she had filed for divorce and her husband was very very angry. He traveled secretly from another state and entered the house late at night to confront her.

LE arrived to remove him from the home, but her children were already hysterical. She did not want him taken out in cuffs within their view. LE took her aside and gave her pamphlets on domestic violence and shelters, and she decided to leave with the children rather than have him taken. PD was not happy that she wouldnt pursue it, but escorted her to the state line so she could leave. An officer stayed behind and made sure her husband did not follow her.

In Gail and Matt's case-there were apparently at least a few calls to that residence of a domestic nature, one a week prior. I could imagine a police officer handing her the information in front of Matt to perhaps make a point about the seriousness of what was going on.

I dont know how seriously all jurisdictions take domestic violence, especially in upper middle class homes. I dont know how they handle a situation that perhaps did not involve an obvious injury. The term "a cooling off period" that I have seen applied to Gail and Matt's situation leads me to believe that they were not overly focused on safety inside of the home. I dont know why, but I know that it does not sit well with me. fwiw.

I think the implication or even the charecterization of an unsafe situation as requiring a "cooling off" is insulting. But then again, I have known many women in violent situations.

 

[Oriah]

To add to the discussion on the process LE may follow with a domestic situation-

Several threads ago, I mentioned a friend of mine who was involved in a confrontation and she had to flee her house with her children. Her house was across the street from her neighbors-she brought her two toddlers and her infant with her to the neighbor's house. What led to the confrontation was that she had filed for divorce and her husband was very very angry. He traveled secretly from another state and entered the house late at night to confront her.

LE arrived to remove him from the home, but her children were already hysterical. She did not want him taken out in cuffs within their view. LE took her aside and gave her pamphlets on domestic violence and shelters, and she decided to leave with the children rather than have him taken. PD was not happy that she wouldnt pursue it, but escorted her to the state line so she could leave. An officer stayed behind and made sure her husband did not follow her.

In Gail and Matt's case-there were apparently at least a few calls to that residence of a domestic nature, one a week prior. I could imagine a police officer handing her the information in front of Matt to perhaps make a point about the seriousness of what was going on.

I dont know how seriously all jurisdictions take domestic violence, especially in upper middle class homes. I dont know how they handle a situation that perhaps did not involve an obvious injury. The term "a cooling off period" that I have seen applied to Gail and Matt's situation leads me to believe that they were not overly focused on safety inside of the home. I dont know why, but I know that it does not sit well with me. fwiw.

I think the implication or even the charecterization of an unsafe situation as requiring a "cooling off" is insulting. But then again, I have known many women in violent situations.

BBM:
I totally get the thought process here- but gosh- certain LEA's need better training in DV, if they are going into a violent or potentially violent situation just trying to make a point.

I totally do understand that there are not a lot of alternatives for LE when having to make quick decisions in situations like these.
But, well... I guess I feel strongly that it's not a great idea to just threaten or intimidate w/o backup, kwim? Seems like the outcome is rarely good.
But of course that's just my (truly) very humble opinion.

I kind of wish I felt differently.

 

[redfish]

We all process information based on our personal experience basically. I know this and try to be tolerant of others perceptions and learn from them. I have learned alot here from all of the posters. Saying that, I still can't look at this case any other way than to totally identify with Gail as an abused spouse. That in no way means she was definitely beaten or touched. Unless one has experienced life with a sociopathic spouse it is hard to imagine. Once one has, they tend to recognize the signs quickly. Alarm bells go off!

 

[redfish]

BBM:
I totally get the thought process here- but gosh- certain LEA's need better training in DV, if they are going into a violent or potentially violent situation just trying to make a point.

I totally do understand that there are not a lot of alternatives for LE when having to make quick decisions in situations like these.
But, well... I guess I feel strongly that it's not a great idea to just threaten or intimidate w/o backup, kwim? Seems like the outcome is rarely good.
But of course that's just my (truly) very humble opinion.

I kind of wish I felt differently.

So hard for LE. They do get training and trust me, they are terrified of DV situations. For them it is often a lose/lose situation. My son is LE, no longer on the streets (investigator now) but he would much rather have a holed up robber on his hands! I wish I knew the answer. The WS program a couple of weeks ago was a good one. It was how to recognize a sociopathe. Maybe we need a program for High School girls!!! LOL Definitely not funny.

 

[Oriah]

So hard for LE. They do get training and trust me, they are terrified of DV situations. For them it is often a lose/lose situation. My son is LE, no longer on the streets (investigator now) but he would much rather have a holed up robber on his hands! I wish I knew the answer. The WS program a couple of weeks ago was a good one. It was how to recognize a sociopathe. Maybe we need a program for High School girls!!! LOL Definitely not funny.

I, too, know many in LE- all who say 'hey I'd rather deal with someone high on whatever and with a weapon, than a domestic issue' especially one where are children are involved.
And that's not even because the odds of LE morbidity and mortality are so much higher- which they are- but sadly, it's because the frequency is so much more common.

So, so very sad.
(Btw- glad your son is off the streets now. Much safer. )

 

[Emeralgem]

We all process information based on our personal experience basically. I know this and try to be tolerant of others perceptions and learn from them. I have learned alot here from all of the posters. Saying that, I still can't look at this case any other way than to totally identify with Gail as an abused spouse. That in no way means she was definitely beaten or touched. Unless one has experienced life with a sociopathic spouse it is hard to imagine. Once one has, they tend to recognize the signs quickly. Alarm bells go off!

BBM. I agree.. I also realize some here may not view Matt P's behavior as being sociopathic... IMO he fits the criteria...JMHO


http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

 

[hollyblue]

BBM Noone knows how much money she left with, but we do know that she had hundreds of thousands of dollars in an account in her name that she did NOT take with her. $100 dollar bills in a can could not add up to the amount of money that was rightfully hers left behind. JMHO

We do know that she was at least feeling abused - she called the police. Police had to come to the home numerous times. That is public knowledge, not from AD. Verbally abused is still abuse.

Also, #9 - hiring an attorney for divorce is one thing, but hiring a criminal attorney is something completely different. You don't just hire a criminal attorney on a whim. Again JMHO

Agree. Psychological abuse is very damaging.....and the aftermath can last for years....and if he was trying to gas light her she has a very good reason to feel scared, that she was being followed etc. It's very scary to think you have a stalker or a peeping tom, yet if someone is getting into your house (dear "loved one" provides someone else a key) and things are happening when you "know" the "loved one" is not around...can make you question everything...and everybody. Knowing how MP likes to have others take care of his problems...imo, this could be exactly what happened.

Everything questioned above regarding AD has been stated in the MSM. I have asked myself about scenarios involving AD because she has to be ruled out, but unless she is the ultimate narcissist, it just doesn't add up. Who would be so bold to run to the media and scream from the rooftops about something they were involved in? Impeding an investigation...obstruction of justice at the least.

Food for thought: Some of the attributes of meth are paranoia, delusions, feeling edgy (possible violent tendencies if so inclined) and feeling you can conquer anything, besides keeping you awake for many hours...or days. Not saying it was a habit for either GP or MP. Just...?

LE should have a pretty good idea from info gained from Gail's PI, AD and digital media by now, imo. I also feel there was a reason the one detective was put back onto patrol and the others have "snapped to" per se. Things are serious. The reports we heard from locals in the early days of Gail's missing may be rumors regarding LE following them because they had nothing else to do, but I have to admit, it has lingered in my mind. JMO

 

[hollyblue]

Snipped



I was specifically referring to two instances of MP's lawyers putting out disparaging info about Gail: One, the Jammer interview where Lee Davis spoke with Jammer Scott before AD's first interview on the show. Davis informed Jammer of information like Gail's brother's death, which is at best gossip. The second example is when Bryan Hoss told TFP that the G's said Gail was "flat f----d up." That's disparaging, it has nothing to do with the court documents.

As for the court documents, as far as I can tell, they're public. I know a moderator told someone on the forums back in the 1st or 2nd thread that anyone can get copies of the docs by going to the courthouse where they were filed.

Also, the court documents were shown clearly on WCRB back in May, and you can see the names of the medications Gail was on in the news video. It's still online here:

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14627648

I'm pretty sure WCRB showed them on the news before AD posted them on Facebook, but I admit I'm not going to spend hours scrolling through FB to find it.

I guess what I'm saying is that I personally think if AD is being disparaging for posting documents, then WCRB is too, as is the county courthouse for allowing anyone who asks to get a copy of these public documents.

I don't remember seeing this earlier either, but at the 1:45 point, with the pic of the house, can someone chime in with what they see at the left hand corner of the back yard? I saw this from maps available in the past and had thought it could be a boat. It's surely not a grill that far from the patio. TIA

 

[Emeralgem]

Agree. Psychological abuse is very damaging.....and the aftermath can last for years....and if he was trying to gas light her she has a very good reason to feel scared, that she was being followed etc. It's very scary to think you have a stalker or a peeping tom, yet if someone is getting into your house (dear "loved one" provides someone else a key) and things are happening when you "know" the "loved one" is not around...can make you question everything...and everybody. Knowing how MP likes to have others take care of his problems...imo, this could be exactly what happened.

Everything questioned above regarding AD has been stated in the MSM. I have asked myself about scenarios involving AD because she has to be ruled out, but unless she is the ultimate narcissist, it just doesn't add up. Who would be so bold to run to the media and scream from the rooftops about something they were involved in? Impeding an investigation...obstruction of justice at the least.

Food for thought: Some of the attributes of meth are paranoia, delusions, feeling edgy (possible violent tendencies if so inclined) and feeling you can conquer anything, besides keeping you awake for many hours...or days. Not saying it was a habit for either GP or MP. Just...?

LE should have a pretty good idea from info gained from Gail's PI, AD and digital media by now, imo. I also feel there was a reason the one detective was put back onto patrol and the others have "snapped to" per se. Things are serious. The reports we heard from locals in the early days of Gail's missing may be rumors regarding LE following them because they had nothing else to do, but I have to admit, it has lingered in my mind. JMO

Not a rumor..

A relative and myself were both tailed and finally pulled over after we left a relatives home in Walden one night around midnight..I stopped in St. Augustine's parking lot to wait for the relative to follow me down the mtn since they didn't want to drive down the "W" road..
They pulled both of us over on Taft Hwy and wanted to know where we were going what we were doing out that late at night...We weren't speeding either ..After they questioned us as to WHY we were out at that time of night and looked at both our drivers license they didn't say too much of anything to either of us other than be careful going down the mountain...

 

[hollyblue]

BBM. I agree.. I also realize some here may not view Matt P's behavior as being sociopathic... IMO he fits the criteria...JMHO

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Just jumping off your post Em. I've heard a few posters talking about the WS program on sociopaths and I'm going to later listen to it. JMO, I don't think he is a true sociopath, but I do think he has a dependancy problem...and it's prolly used as self medicating. There seems to be a secrecy factor involved...not only the alcohol use, but by his family as well. The self medication could in part be to cover up or not wanting to face/deal with the secrets...maybe some from before he met GP. Feelings of inadequacy...can be dowsed also. Like I've stated a few times, MP's image is very important to him. JMO, ...and I could be wrong.

 

[McSpy]

Thank you for posting that link. I had never seen that news clip... I also didn't realize he has claimed Gail was a danger to her children....

My question for Matt P..
IF your wife was such a danger to her children WHY were you in another state with another woman instead of being home with your children and WHY were you spending nights out in local hotels instead of being home with your children, that is... IF you were so concerned about their welfare?

IMHO.. For Matt P to even make a statment of that nature tends to prove he is the one who is possibly delusional.. He has to be IF he thinks for a second anyone is buying into his claims especially when his actions have proven his children's safety was not his top priority.

I'm NOW thoroughly convinced this man's EGO is run amok..And IF anyone is a danger to the children, IMHO it's him, not Gail...JMHO

I agree. I got this from that web link:

Her husband, Matthew Palmgren, has filed a restraining order, a request for custody of the couple's children, and possession of their home.

A week after Gail was last seen, Matthew Palmgren filed papers to claim Gail took jewelry, changed pin numbers to bank accounts containing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and took the children's passports.

He seems very angry. To me, it doesn't make sense that she dropped off the kids, if she was planning to take off with them to another country or anywhere else for that matter. It just doesn't make sense!

 

[Emeralgem]

I agree. I got this from that web link:

Her husband, Matthew Palmgren, has filed a restraining order, a request for custody of the couple's children, and possession of their home.

A week after Gail was last seen, Matthew Palmgren filed papers to claim Gail took jewelry, changed pin numbers to bank accounts containing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and took the children's passports.

He seems very angry. To me, it doesn't make sense that she dropped off the kids, if she was planning to take off with them to another country or anywhere else for that matter. It just doesn't make sense!

And I agree.. The news commentator/s in the video also said he didn't suspect any foul play...Imagine that! IMHO.. Of course he is going to say he doesn't expect any foul play..Thats the last thing he wants to admit to or have anyone think...JMHO

My understanding is the children's passports were found in the home...Which is another red flag for me.... Is it possible Gail had the passports at the lake house or even with her? And is it also possible Gail did not leave her driver's license at home that day? JMHO..

 

[conundrummed]

I don't remember seeing this earlier either, but at the 1:45 point, with the pic of the house, can someone chime in with what they see at the left hand corner of the back yard? I saw this from maps available in the past and had thought it could be a boat. It's surely not a grill that far from the patio. TIA

It's a free-standing hammock.

 

[Oriah]

Not a rumor..

A relative and myself were both tailed and finally pulled over after we left a relatives home in Walden one night around midnight..I stopped in St. Augustine's parking lot to wait for the relative to follow me down the mtn since they didn't want to drive down the "W" road..
They pulled both of us over on Taft Hwy and wanted to know where we were going what we were doing out that late at night...We weren't speeding either ..After they questioned us as to WHY we were out at that time of night and looked at both our drivers license they didn't say too much of anything to either of us other than be careful going down the mountain...

Em, do you mind me asking what day of the week that incident occurred (if you recall?) No actual date needed, just Monday, Tuesday, Sat, Sun etc?