TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[Oriah]

Oriah: I didn't see the river after the storms because I don't live near it now. However, when I was younger I lived right on the river in downtown Chattanooga, and after heavy rain there are really strong currents out in the channel. It's a heavily traveled and heavily fished river though, and most of the time if someone goes in, the body is eventually found.

Caves: Most caves in this area are limestone sinkhole type caves that go straight down. I would say the vast majority of openings are far away from roads in rocky terrain, but these old mines might have openings close to one of the dirt roads. Could you drive right into one of them? Probably not, but you'd have to go out there and inspect each one individually, imo.

It does appear that several of the mines have road access by 4 wheel drive. I did a quick search on the collapsed vs non/collapsed shafts etc. I believe you are right in that each would have to be checked individually.

As for the river- I'm looking at the water levels and currents right now. It's suprising how far a very strong current can move even very heavy objects. Also, given the nature of the storms, I would think there was quite a bit of debris in the river afterwards?

 

[ThoughtFox]

snipped...

I know what you're saying, that Gail's reputation has been irretrievably sullied, but I just do not personally agree. I'm not trying to diminish the fact that Matt has made statements about Gail that were extremely problematic. What I'm saying is that (a) MP lawyered up and clammed up, and we haven't seen a slam against Gail that needed immediate countering in weeks, and (b) there were plenty of people speaking for Gail in the beginning. LE, her sister, Susie, and Arlene all countered Matt's claims back then. That is why it is my personal opinion that Arlene is not "forced", as SMM said, to be Gail's voice.

And to be very, very honest here, a single self-appointed spokesperson who has said things publicly that they later had to delete may not be the best "voice for Gail" available. Also, I personally think the family should be deciding the "voice" issue but it appears to have been taken out of their hands.

I personally don't believe Gail's reputation is sullied at all. Despite MP's statement that things are "hard for him" now, etc, most people have much less sympathy for him, especially as things come to light about dishonesty at work and adultery. I don't know many people who admire those traits, and certainly not on Websleuths.

I think Arlene did a great thing in explaining what was going on with Gail's divorce plans, and really from her first statement that if Gail was crazy, then she was the Queen of England. If she hadn't said anything after that, it would have been enough to convince me that MP was exaggerating and slamming his wife.

I think many times in missing persons cases people think the victim has no "voice" and people will ask passionately "Who speaks for the victim?"

And it can seem that the system is cold and slow and impersonal sometimes.

But the law provides the victim with a voice, and it's not even the family - it's the State. People without friends and family support still have a voice, thank goodness. LE and the Prosecution work for the victim, and if there's ever any evidence of foul play, they will be the victim's voice and hopefully win justice for that person who cannot speak for themselves. That's the way our legal system works, and it's a pretty good system.

People once asked the same thing in the Caylee Anthony case - who would be her "voice"? And now we have a great Prosecution that has built up the case very carefully on evidence, and they are speaking loud and clear. Caylee's family with all their grief and mixed emotions are not responsible for putting together the case - they are only part of it. That should actually comfort people who think victims are overlooked or forgotten.

 

[Oriah]

Another quick question for anyone here who might know: does anyone know if the VIN on the Jeep has been checked for new registration in all other states?

 

[Snowbunny]

Another quick question for anyone here who might know: does anyone know if the VIN on the Jeep has been checked for new registration in all other states?

Do we know the VIN number? Anyone could run that VIN number through Carfacts and see if its been sold, etc.

 

[Oriah]

Do we know the VIN number? Anyone could run that VIN number through Carfacts and see if its been sold, etc.

I don't but I'll see if I can find out. I'm certain it's already been done by LE, but just curious.

 

[believe09]

This thread is about Gail, not about Clive. Let's get back on topic please.

 

[happy409]

Thoughtfox; But the law provides the victim with a voice, and it's not even the family - it's the State. People without friends and family support still have a voice, thank goodness. LE and the Prosecution work for the victim, and if there's ever any evidence of foul play, they will be the victim's voice and hopefully win justice for that person who cannot speak for themselves. That's the way our legal system works, and it's a pretty good system.

BBM - If this is the case, then it is a very sad situation indeed. The legal representation of MP appears based on being the past DA of Hamilton County, the closest link to the State, the same State that will be GP's voice. :sigh:

 

[ThoughtFox]

BBM - If this is the case, then it is a very sad situation indeed. The legal representation of MP appears based on being the past DA of Hamilton County, the closest link to the State, the same State that will be GP's voice. :sigh:

MP has a right to be represented, too, and that's how the system works.

And lots of attorneys work both sides during their careers. I don't see that as anything to do with justice for Gail.

While there is definitely a "good old boys" network in the Chattanooga legal system, whatever happens in the future will be based not just on the Prosecution counsel, but a Jury.

 

[Shelby1]

The following means NO DISRESPECT towards the 99.9% of males or females out there that are good people.


I think what is frustrating for me is that every time I get an alert that a wife/mother/girlfriend/friend is missing, I immediately research to see if there is a husband/boyfriend/significant other in her life.

Sadly, usually there is.

I'm not trying to point fingers, but in the case of a wife that went missing ....let's just say I learned a lot from Laci and Conner Peterson.

From the cases I've followed...and I've followed quite a few, if someone isn't found quickly, then someone else has taken quite a few steps to make sure they aren't found.

The one and only exception that I've noted is the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco. And, my most compelling reason that he had to have met with foul play was that his wife, Christine, said over and over that he would never, ever have willingly left his children that he loved so dearly.

Sadly, he did leave on his own. So, that goes to show you that anything is possible.

I will never know why Christine was so adamant that he would never leave them...and, it's not on topic to this case...but, it's an interesting read for anyone that would like to have details.

Anyway, it's darn difficult to hide yourself if you really are trying to hide yourself....

And, it's darn difficult to find someone when someone else has decided that they need to be hidden.


To sum up what I'm trying to say is that I know it's not "right" to immediately decide who might have been the reason someone is missing...but, .....isn't it telling how many times it turns out to be the person we always suspected from the get-go?


I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone...just making a comment on my past experiences.

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[happy409]

Matthew Palmgren is opening up his storage facility, mother’s home, house in Montgomery, lake house in Titus, Ala., and Signal Mountain home for investigators.

Just in the nick of time...?!?!?

Hoss said Friday that Palmgren offered to allow the search shortly after his wife last was seen.

“We reached out to them early, early on in the case,” Hoss said, noting that police did not immediately accept the offer.

If it was anywhere else but Signal Mountain, or these attorneys...well you get the gist IMHO!

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/18/palmgren-consents-property-searches/#comments

 

[happy409]

MP has a right to be represented, too, and that's how the system works.

And lots of attorneys work both sides during their careers. I don't see that as anything to do with justice for Gail.

While there is definitely a "good old boys" network in the Chattanooga legal system, whatever happens in the future will be based not just on the Prosecution counsel, but a Jury.

BBM - I agree, but after all this time and NOW just having access to the properties says a lot...IMHO of course. I want nothing more than justice to be done, whatever the outcome, I have to live here.

 

[believe09]

Good for Matt. We know where she and the Jeep are not of course. He would have to be a fool not to have checked it out himself first.

I am not implying he knows where she is-just mentioning that he knows where she is not.

 

[Snowbunny]

Did anyone else pickup on Helton's age in the article listed above? MP is 9 years her senior. I believe Gail is 4 years older than MP. Sounds like MP is going through a midlife crisis seeking a younger woman, not that I feel sorry for him any. NOT! My concern is Gail.

 

[JBean]

Just in the nick of time...?!?!?



If it was anywhere else but Signal Mountain, or these attorneys...well you get the gist IMHO!

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/18/palmgren-consents-property-searches/#comments

THat is great but WTH does this mean:

>>
The husband of a missing Signal Mountain woman has reached an agreement with authorities allowing them to search his home, lake house and other properties in hopes of finding his wife.
Matthew Palmgren is opening up his storage facility, mother’s home, house in Montgomery, lake house in Titus, Ala., and Signal Mountain home for investigators.
Gail Palmgren, 44, was last seen April 30. In the weeks before she disappeared, the couple had arguments serious enough that police responded, according to police reports.
The consent order was drafted by Palmgren’s defense attorneys, Lee Davis and Bryan Hoss<<

 

[JBean]

The only reason I can think of that a person would reach an agreement to search with the help of defense attorneys would be that LE may find evidence of something else illegal and it must be agreed in advance that this will not be used against him before they can search.
My mind is open but I cannot come up with another reason for this. Anyone?

 

[believe09]

THat is great but WTH does this mean:

>>
The husband of a missing Signal Mountain woman has reached an agreement with authorities allowing them to search his home, lake house and other properties in hopes of finding his wife.
Matthew Palmgren is opening up his storage facility, mother’s home, house in Montgomery, lake house in Titus, Ala., and Signal Mountain home for investigators.
Gail Palmgren, 44, was last seen April 30. In the weeks before she disappeared, the couple had arguments serious enough that police responded, according to police reports.
The consent order was drafted by Palmgren’s defense attorneys, Lee Davis and Bryan Hoss<<

I think we can see this for what it is. What would even be left after this point in time, in the event that there was anything there to begin with? The consent order is likely limited, but we can hope for the best. I hope it is released after the search is complete. Mr. Hoss seems to be a fan of limited transparency-perhaps he would like to continue to re assure the public of Matt's cooperation with LE...albeit somewhat after the fact. JMO.

I stand by my current opinion that MP's behaviour may be in no way tied to GP's disappearance-I mean he was just fired for conduct issues. We have no idea if it was the tip of the iceburg and of course that is between MP and BCBS T. However, I cant get that whole duck thing out of my head. JMVHO.

I hope the kids are well. They must miss Gail something fierce. I cannot bear to think about that part.

 

[Sleuthy1]

Did anyone else pickup on Helton's age in the article listed above? MP is 9 years her senior. I believe Gail is 4 years older than MP. Sounds like MP is going through a midlife crisis seeking a younger woman, not that I feel sorry for him any. NOT! My concern is Gail.

I believe TH's age is a misprint on TFP's fault for not catching it before it hit the presses. I believe TH is 41 years old<modsnip>
:websleuther:

 

[mayqueen]

I believe TH's age is a misprint on TFP's fault for not catching it before it hit the presses. I believe TH is 41 years old....<modsnip>
:websleuther:

I agree - I'm pretty sure I saw another article where her age was given as 41, not 31.

 

[JBean]

The only reason I can think of that a person would reach an agreement to search with the help of defense attorneys would be that LE may find evidence of something else illegal and it must be agreed in advance that this will not be used against him before they can search.
My mind is open but I cannot come up with another reason for this. Anyone?

I missed the most important part:

>>
The agreement is being coordinated through the Hamilton County District Attorney&#8217;s Office.<< there ya go,imo. If the DA is involved with defense attorneys to coordinate an agreement to search the premises of a missing woman, something is certainly not kosher about something they will find that may not be directly related to Gail.

 

[mayqueen]

It's great that they're doing these searches and all... but c'mon - 7 weeks after the fact?? If MP did have something to do with GP's disappearance, he's had ample time to clean up / dispose of evidence.

But, well, it's still something. Sometimes perps overlook little things in the clean-up process. Here's hoping LE finds something that leads them to Gail.