TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

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Do you think the lawyers have been reading here and noticed how many of us were curious as to whether the properties had been searched, and how many times it's been mentioned? Seems like they really went to work cooking up some damage control for MP. Pretty sly.

Not too sly at all ~ actually quite predictable.

It's payback for Arlene's tell-all article in the Chattanoogan.

Not too sly, or as we say here in Tennessee ~ not too swooft.

And it isn't going to work. There are big holes in their story and holes in their logic. The public isn't as stupid as they think.
 
I didn't mean to say that this information was coming from authorities, but it also doesn't mean they didn't know about or that it was just being discovered. I actually feel bad for everyone in this case, including MP. Everything that is said by him or about him or on his behalf (or not said, for that matter) is scrutinized to the nth degree, but things that people like Arlene and Susan say are taken as absolute truth.

<modsnip>.

But here's the thing: ask yourself: Who seems to care about Gail the most?
Who seems to care about Gail the least?

Who has the most to gain in this matter?

Arlene? What does she gain by putting herself through this? Nothing, except alot of trouble and stress. She has basically been threatened legally by MP for making things "difficult" for him. So she has been scrutinized and she has put herself out in the public eye for her friend, while MP has hunkered down behind a Defense Attorney and insulted his wife in every possible way.

Susan (I presume you mean Susie Button) has no reason to lie either. What could she possibly gain by making up something about Gail leaving documents with her? I'm sure the police have verified her story anyway.
 
Yes!!
And then at the end of the article saying what a hard time he's having because "he has lost his wife and his job" ...give me a break. Do they think they are fooling someone?

That's the line that really got me. I've been looking for a box of Kleenex to take him.:boohoo:
 
Going back to another story in the Chattanooga Times Free Press:

Chattanooga Times Free-Press Story

The Heltons, who shared a home and chicken farm in Ider, Ala., have a 16-year-old daughter.

I wonder if the area around Ider has been searched in any sort of way?

Ider is on Sand Mountain, and again a very rural, wooded, rocky mountainous area, and close to the TN River and Lake Guntersville. Heck, it's not that far from Little River Canyon Wilderness, where people have gone missing in the past.

But my main point is, it's not that far from Chattanooga ~ certainly closer than Mississippi, and there would be lots of places to hide a car. And one of the principal people in this case has a strong connection and familiarity to the area, which just hit me today.

I'm not saying anyone did anything, only that today it occurred to me that Sand Mountain or the surrounding area would be an unexpected place to hide the jeep and not that far away. Someone could go there, dump a jeep, and be back in Chattanooga within a few hours.
 
I would like to comment on the idea that if Gail was having a "psychotic episode", why didn't anyone stop her from taking the kids.....

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Think about it for a minute. Someone who has always been stable is on a slow downward spiral. How quickly would most people notice or react to it? If it is someone you know and are familiar with that has a few off moments, do you automatically react to it? Or do you chalk it up to them having an off moment? I know that the attorney used the term "psychotic episode"... but is it possible that it was meant more as a generic term than a clinical diagnosis? It's just like the old adage about a frog in boiling water. If you throw it into boiling water, it will jump out. If you slowly heat up the water, it won't ever seem to notice. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the claims just because they don't make sense to you NOW. The whole ballgame has changed and everything is seen in a different light. You need to think about things as they were before she disappeared.

Also, it doesn't say in the article that the couple JUST NOW came forward with the information... it has been speculated on here for a while now that authorities most likely have had information that they have not been discussing.

Just another way of looking at the information that has been presented.
I hear what you are saying and I agree that the attorney friend probably did not recently come forward, I think the defense attorneys just now decided to release this info.
But the problem I have is how her behavior is described by the attorney friend. He is not speaking retrospectively, imo.
She was "flat *advertiser censored* up- out of her mind". Think about that.

That is not the same as, "now that I think about it her behavior was a little erratic" or "I should have realized" or something like that. Hopefully they did not let her drive away with the kids. If gail felt comfortable enough to show up with kids in tow unannounced and "uninvited" as the attorney puts it, they should have been able to call authorities or anyone to make sure the kids were not in harms way. I doubt they would have let her leave the house with the kids if she were drunk.

Matt has said she was delusional in the few weeks before she went missing, yet he left town with his gf and left his kids alone with their mentally ill, psychotic, delusional mother. Either he is exaggerating about her mental health or he really felt the risk to the children was worth it to be with his gf.

I don't know if MP is involved, I truly hope he is not.I have held out hope all this time that his behavior is just not all that honorable but not to the degree that he would make his wife go missing. I am giving him every benefit, but some of this stuff is just pretty tough to take.

I don't suppose that Gail was some sort of saint and I suppose she may have her demons and issues too. But right now she is missing and the people around her that noticed her reported unstable behavior ,if true,didn't lift a finger to help her even if for the sake of the kids.

As I say any way you slice this thing up, something does not fit and something is way wrong. If Gail left on her own and is wandering around delusional in a homeless camp somewhere, there were people around her that could have helped, at least brought attention to it and raised the red flag... or even reported her missing immediately.
if Gail did not leave on her own, well that is just a nightmare.
 
I didn't mean to say that this information was coming from authorities, but it also doesn't mean they didn't know about or that it was just being discovered. I actually feel bad for everyone in this case, including MP. Everything that is said by him or about him or on his behalf (or not said, for that matter) is scrutinized to the nth degree, but things that people like Arlene and Susan say are taken as absolute truth.

<modsnip remove comments about other members>

It comes as no surprise that people will scrutinize closely the person who has the most to gain by someone disappearing, especially at it has come to light that there were divorce proceedings being talked about. If Gail hadn’t gone missing they would have been the need to divide assets, custody of children to sort, the affair would have come out which would have been embarrassing and may still have cause problems at work. But your convince people that your wife had mental health issues and walked away, makes it far easier to keep everything for yourself. These are just thoughts I have when I read the things in the media and I am not saying MP did anything wrong, it just doesn’t make him look good.

There is a mother of two children missing and even if she was suffering mental health issues I would have thought the first priority would be to ask people to help find her before she came to harm. Instead he left it for two days before reporting her missing and then set about going to court to gain custody of the children and possession of the family home and trying to say she was unstable. Yes people will question, scrutinize all his words, actions etc until Gail is found.

Arlene and Susan (Susie) have nothing to gain from what they are saying other than to try and make people sit up and take notice of their missing friend. So we have Arlene and Susan (Susie) saying yes there was stress in her life, she had concerns about being followed and we need to find her.
On the other hand we have MP saying she had mental health issue, not much to worry about here folks and look at poor me and what she had done to me “lost my job, dealing with the two children with the help of mother” (must add that’s how the article read to me and is not the opinion or thoughts of anyone else)

I am not dismissing you alternate view I am just adding my thoughts as to why I think people here are scrutinizing everything MP and his attorney do/don’t do or say/or don’t say. It just makes him look very uncaring in my opinion. I would be more frustrated if people weren’t scrutinizing everything as it would mean Gail is been dismissed as a nut case.

All the above is just my thoughts and based only on what I have been able to read through out this whole thread, sorry if I have offened anyone by posting it.
 
I didn't mean to say that this information was coming from authorities, but it also doesn't mean they didn't know about or that it was just being discovered. I actually feel bad for everyone in this case, including MP. Everything that is said by him or about him or on his behalf (or not said, for that matter) is scrutinized to the nth degree, but things that people like Arlene and Susan say are taken as absolute truth.

<modsnip remove comments about other members>
FWIW, I think there are plenty of people that do not take what Susan or AD are saying as absolute truth.

Don't be afraid to post here jeni, we want to hear other thoughts and input that may lead to Gail.
 
But here's the thing: ask yourself: Who seems to care about Gail the most?
Who seems to care about Gail the least?

Who has the most to gain in this matter?

Arlene? What does she gain by putting herself through this? Nothing, except alot of trouble and stress. She has basically been threatened legally by MP for making things "difficult" for him. So she has been scrutinized and she has put herself out in the public eye for her friend, while MP has hunkered down behind a Defense Attorney and insulted his wife in every possible way.

Susan (I presume you mean Susie Button) has no reason to lie either. What could she possibly gain by making up something about Gail leaving documents with her? I'm sure the police have verified her story anyway.

BBM- Judging how things "seem" from the outside doesn't always match up with what's going on inside.

If I was in this situation, I would have a defense attorney too.

"Insulted in every possible way".... I don't see that. Saying that someone has been having mental issues is not necessarily an insult and it is FAR from every possible way to insult someone. For a situation that has gone on as long as this one has, there have been relatively few statements made regarding Gail. Other than saying that she was having mental issues, I can't recall any other comments being made about her.
 
"Insulted in every possible way".... I don't see that. Saying that someone has been having mental issues is not necessarily an insult and it is FAR from every possible way to insult someone. For a situation that has gone on as long as this one has, there have been relatively few statements made regarding Gail. Other than saying that she was having mental issues, I can't recall any other comments being made about her.

As I see it, the insult in saying she has "mental issues" is in the way it is being used to portray her. Not to mention that it may not even be true. Besides the reports of her friends from early on, there's also the Signal Mountain detective's statement from early in the investigation, that he could find no basis for that claim.

And now, in the latest article, accusations of a psychotic episode? That is a very specific medical diagnosis, if I understand it correctly. Who, I wonder, made such a diagnosis? MP's attorney? Or was it the attorney "friend"?
 
Saying in a newspaper that someone is "f---ed up" on Easter Sunday while withholding candy from her children is pretty insulting.

That's really different from saying someone has mental issues.

Just my opinion. :cow:

And it's funny that other family and friends find such positive things to say about Gail. That she was a good mother and friend, had a nice personality, and was an intelligent person.

Maybe if her husband had described her that way just once, I might cut him more slack.

Obviously people about to go through a divorce sometimes don't like each other, and clearly he had moved on with another woman. But for the sake of the kids it would be nice if he could say just one positive thing about Gail.
 
And that comment about the Easter candy is still bugging me. She and the kids weren't at home, so why did they need candy? Maybe they were planning to have Easter with their grandmother. Maybe they had tons of candy at home. I wouldn't necessarily drag my kids Easter Baskets around in the car either, no matter where I was going. Why is that even relevant, except as a slam? :banghead:

That comment has continued to irritate me as well. Easter candy has never been given much thought at my house. Neither has the Easter bunny. Is that supposed to be an indication of being a bad mother? I wonder if Easter candy will be mentioned in some legal brief down the pike....
 
Saying in a newspaper that someone is "f---ed up" on Easter Sunday while withholding candy from her children is pretty insulting.

I think the comment says much more about the witness' character and credibility than about Gail. I would think a prosecutor would enjoy cross-examining him.
 
I really don't understand how an abusive mate could manipulate a good therapist...which would prolly be just more of their lying and manipulation. A good therapist would get down to the gist of it all...as all controllers and manipulators are not socio or psychopaths. The truth does eventually come out. I think GP did all the right things...mainly keeping faith in herself and forging forward with the divorce. The only thing that I question in her actions is going to so many people and spreading out her assets? Was she asking for help from all of these people and no one was really listening? Did she want to document her fears? People that have never been in a relationship or had knowledge of a controlling, manipulative, (alcoholic) abuser would have seen her behavior as odd for sure.

Don't threaten, don't TELL them what you have discovered. Your words and reactions are just fuel for your adversary's fire. Is this what GP may have done...or did she just not get out in time? Is it safe to assume maybe MP knew that she would wait until after school was out and then she would file and leave with the children?

I'm rambling with my thoughts, but basically it comes down to the control and manipulation we see so much of in cases like this and I always go back to what Bundy told authorities/therapists. Murder is about total possession. Possession is ultimate control. Manipulation is just manifest as their tool for conquest.

I'm not saying MP did harm GP, but it's not looking good by his actions. imo
 
[snip] Is it safe to assume maybe MP knew that she would wait until after school was out and then she would file and leave with the children?

I'm rambling with my thoughts, but basically it comes down to the control and manipulation we see so much of in cases like this and I always go back to what Bundy told authorities/therapists. Murder is about total possession. Possession is ultimate control. Manipulation is just manifest as their tool for conquest.

I'm not saying MP did harm GP, but it's not looking good by his actions. imo

This is an interesting point I've not seen mentioned in any of the previous threads. I think that makes perfect sense that she would want to wait until school was out before unleashing total chaos, and as I recall, MP forced the timetable in saying he was going to file right away. How controlling is that?
 
Sometimes it takes awhile for LE to get all the facts straight. Things take time to come together. If Gail was having mental health issues the family and only close friends would know. People with mental health issues can hide it well when in public. The children may have been in fear of there mother being off a bit and taking back roads.
Sounds like Gail needed a break, re: bank accounts, change of address, removing furniture from home.
It is also very hard to get help for someone with mental health issues if they are not willing to get proffesional help. So begins the downward spiral.

Same for alcoholics. Unfortunately if GP would have sought therapy for dealing with all the problems that were---obivious here, a husband or attorney could turn it with old stigmatisms---she's bonkos....until the proof came out.
 
BBM- Judging how things "seem" from the outside doesn't always match up with what's going on inside.

If I was in this situation, I would have a defense attorney too.

"Insulted in every possible way".... I don't see that. Saying that someone has been having mental issues is not necessarily an insult and it is FAR from every possible way to insult someone. For a situation that has gone on as long as this one has, there have been relatively few statements made regarding Gail. Other than saying that she was having mental issues, I can't recall any other comments being made about her.
Jeni4smith, IMO of course, I feel that insults do not necessarily need to be verbal. It can be interpreted that actions/lack of action, disregard of a long-standing marriage or failure to support the other parent of your children. Allow me to explain my opinion, based on known facts. Feel free to draw your own conclusion.

As you stated in your earlier post:
For a situation that has gone on as long as this one has, there have been relatively few statements made regarding Gail.
It is not a matter of "how many" separate comments are made either way. It is simply a matter of weighing the known facts and confirmed issues vs speculation. Also, take into account the lack of "appropriate" response and insaction to a spouse, the mother of your children who was the primary caretaker and involved in their lives every day.

GP was reported missing by MP via 911 more than 48 hours following her disappearance, and then, ONLY after her sister had made a report. There has been no effort or plea by MP since GP disappeared, with the exception of his brief statement made at the press conference with GP's sister. No particiation or encouragment in the local search efforts, quite the opposite actually. Any effort to establish a reward fund to try and find the children's mother? Even if he found public speaking or being in public uncomfortable, why not pursue some sort of campaign online?

Now, before you read further, think about this hypothetically...your spouse fails to return home after being seen by a neighbor leaving about 12:15. At what point do you begin entertaining the thought that maybe they have gotten caught in a long check out line...then, later what if they had car trouble or ran out of gas...then, maybe a flat tire or accident? We have all been through that thought process at one time or another with a friend, family or co-worker even. At some point, after no phone contact is made a reasonable person may take a drive to check and see if they are having difficulty. Or, they may call a friend looking to see if they had been side-tracked. BUT when this person disappears, fails to make contact with people they talk to two-three times a day...well by now you would expect a normal reaction to ask LE for assitance. This did not happen.

These are examples of what would have been both helpful to GP, and respectful of GP...and the kids. The complete lack of any of these things are, in my opinion an insult to a spouse, mother, sister...to any human being.

IMVHO, the loss of the average family pet is likely to get more prompt and appropriate attention than was initiated in this particular instance from the onset.
 
Do you mean the downward spiral of lying and cheating on your wife, and all the energy that requires?

Gail, at Matt's request (no doubt of that) did not obtain other employment. Someone who could put a key stroker on the PC, GPS on the car, document ALL, and have the wherewithall to send to friend...not to mention keep their mouth shut, and just gather sounds thorough, not crazy to me.

<modsnip comments regarding members>
Who stated that these people were HIS friends? I don't recall seeing that stated, and if that was the case and she feared him so, why the heck would she have gone there and stayed. Some of you have questioned why they would let her take the kids and leave... She apparently called the police on them when they got separated at the store, could they have stopped her from taking the kids.

Carol's siting announcement last week was pretty much taken as the gospel, but these people are I instantly dismissed. Yes, it was his attorney who released the statement, but it was the FB guy who released Carol's, and both were printed in the Chattanoogan. What makes Carol more correct? Also, Carol got scared and doesn't want her full name released anymore... I understand that, but that cat is already out of the bag. Many of you have commented how that could scare other witnesses off. What do you think all the positiveness on here about the new witnesses is going to do? I know that if I have any info , I would be very careful how it got to the authorities. Especially if it was something that seemed to support Matt.

I want Gail home too...I want her safe and for all this to be worked out, but the venom being shown against Matt and even anyone who makes a positive statement about him is unbelieveable. I hold firm to my belief that although he may have been wrong in his affair, etc. He would not and has not done anything sinister to Gail and is just as confused by all this as we are.
 
Sometimes it takes awhile for LE to get all the facts straight. Things take time to come together. If Gail was having mental health issues the family and only close friends would know. People with mental health issues can hide it well when in public. The children may have been in fear of there mother being off a bit and taking back roads.
Sounds like Gail needed a break, re: bank accounts, change of address, removing furniture from home.
It is also very hard to get help for someone with mental health issues if they are not willing to get proffesional help. So begins the downward spiral.

I agree that LE needs time for put everything together, absolutely.

But mental illness isn't always something people can control. They can't turn it on and off at whim. Since people are now saying that Gail was so unstable she was "f-- up" in public, that pretty much means that IF she was having mental problems then she wasn't hiding it in public very well. She was very blatantly sick per MP and that couple we read about in the news today. So that brings us right back to the big question: If she was so obviously "f-- up" then why didn't anyone do anything? Why didn't Matt call LE and say "My wife is having mental issues and now she's disappeared" immediately?

Given what Gail's friends have said on here about how the kids and Gail got on so well, I can't personally see any reason to speculate that the kids were afraid of her.
 
Must be a lack of coffee on my part-has LE changed their position on Gail's alleged mental health issues? Have they changed her status to endangered missing?

If not, I would think that sums up their confidence in the new spin released.

Confused I am not sure who your post is directed at, but like JBean I believe many statements released to the media have been fairly scrutinized. Including the Big Forks siting. I am unsure of elements of it as reported, but that is jmo.
 
(snip)

I have read page after page about wanting him to open the house up for searches, about no one but Matt saying that she was having issues... Now, you are getting what you wanted and of course it isn't enough.

Who stated that these people were HIS friends? I don't recall seeing that stated (snip)

Carol's siting announcement last week was pretty much taken as the gospel, but these people are I instantly dismissed. Yes, it was his attorney who released the statement, but it was the FB guy who released Carol's, and both were printed in the Chattanoogan. What makes Carol more correct? (snip)

Regarding the house search, people are wary of this search because it's been so long since Gail disappeared, meaning lots of evidence could have been lost in the meantime. Just the mere act of straightening up the house could get rid of vital clues. At seven weeks out, we wonder just what, if anything, would be found.

And there is also the issue of Matt needing to negotiate with LE to decide when property can or cannot be searched. Regardless of what one thinks of Matt, that doesn't look good.

As far as the couple who said Gail was "f-- up", I think most of us have been asking if they were his friends or hers because we don't know. Again, the problem we have is that this story doesn't even come from the couple, it is secondhand hearsay from attorney Davis. The money quote from the article is this:

He said the husband, an attorney, told him, "Gail was flat f----- up. She was out of her mind."

Whose words are those? Is Davis quoting the couple verbatim, or is he paraphrasing it the way he wants it said? Surely you can see why people here are pretty dissatisfied with that article.

I don't think the FB guy released C's statement. He gave the media C's phone number and they contacted her directly. Besides, there was discussion about whether her story was accurate. Several people wondered if she really saw Gail or not.
 
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