TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[confused]

And Gail is the one perceived as paranoid. ???

Be serious...we have had people on this forum post photos of the house, the exact address, the address and map to his mothers house, the location of his father. If I were him I would not let the kids out of my sight, and yes, would be very paranoid about something happening to them. It seems strange to me that someone is asking about them getting to be out and about the neighborhood. In the same circumstances, I wouldn't be so worried about Gail or her family coming for them, I would be worried about some internet weirdo.

 

[happy409]

<modsnip>

I will elaborate. It has been stated here (and I will paraphrase) that Gail was beaten by Matt, that he expected her to jump when he said so, she was made to use an inferior cell phone, she was forced to turn down a job offer, he monitored her voice mails-daily, she was terrified of him, and on and on. For her to have allowed that, she had to have been weak, beaten etc. I have never thought of Gail being that way. She always seems to get what she wants and do what she wants. The casual reader here would think that she was a helpless victim to his evil ways, but that is not an acurate picture of her.

<deep breath>, Confused. I personally don't think that about her (she was beaten by Matt) or from what I read, but can understand you hanging on every word as a personal insult of your friend. Some are passionate and say speculative things to certain circumstances, but I respect that as their opinion and it doesn't influence mine.

I've been a little annoyed how Matt has handled things, but that also is my opinion and never meant to insinuate he was a killer. I have considered he may have been involved in other things that may not be on the up and up, but Gail knew about it. But, normally in time it all comes out in the wash. I am curious if Matt also got what he wanted and did what he wanted to do, also. Can you offer insight?

 

[jeni4smith]

<deep breath>, Confused. I personally don't think that about her (she was beaten by Matt) or from what I read, but can understand you hanging on every word as a personal insult of your friend. Some are passionate and say speculative things to certain circumstances, but I respect that as their opinion and it doesn't influence mine.

I've been a little annoyed how Matt has handled things, but that also is my opinion and never meant to insinuate he was a killer. I have considered he may have been involved in other things that may not be on the up and up, but Gail knew about it. But, normally in time it all comes out in the wash. I am curious if Matt also got what he wanted and did what he wanted to do, also. Can you offer insight?

BBM- I have been wanting to ask this for a while, so this gives me a good opportunity. MP's handling of things has been a source of frustration for a lot of people, but most of us came into this knowing it as a "missing person" case. We now know that their marriage was crumbling and both parties were making preparations for separation/divorce. Has he known this was a missing person case from the beginning?

What if he is a guy who is facing the end of his marriage and a deteriorating relationship with his wife and one day she takes off? If he had nothing to do with her disappearance, why would he run to the police to report her missing? When he realizes she isn't coming back and no one can get in touch with her... maybe he starts to wonder if he is being set-up. I know that I would certainly get a defense attorney at that point. I know that I had an affair, I know that things have been going downhill and I know that everyone's eyes are pointed right at me. Filing the motion in court to keep her from taking off with the kids and marital assets without due process of a divorce would also be a reasonable action if you are in a position where you feel like you are being set-up. Once things start to sink in, maybe he looked back and realized that things had gotten worse than he had thought. Her behaviors that seemed odd may now point to something else. I have stated before that hindsight is 20/20...

I don't want everyone to jump on the "MP is innocent" bandwagon, I am only trying (once again) to point out that such scenarios are plausible.

A lot of people have asked for proof before they will believe that GP was having issues with mental illness and that is a completely valid request. I think that we should also require proof before we believe that MP asked GP for $40k and that the money was actually used by him before we believe that as well.

 

[glorias]

IIRC, Susie also got cash to hold on to. Also, it was reported Gail had ask other neighbors to hold on to stuff----but it was never stated if in fact they did. Could have been the result of panic attacks/ugency, but the disbursement is very odd. I have wondered if this was her way of reaching out to others for help and validation. imo

I don't think we've ever known who exactly was being referred to. It was a May 24 article on WRCBTV that said Susie was given stuff and "Other neighbors describe being asked to hold onto other personal belongings." At the time, we knew also of Arlene and the person MacGyver referred to but couldn't name, which I thought would qualify as other neighbors. Since then we've heard "Mrs. G" was given stuff (as was Diane, but she wasn't so much a neighbor as a sister.)

Were there really more? I'm shocked we know of this many people. Her sister, an AL neighbor and a TN neighbor made sense, but the more people we're told about, the more I wonder why so many. You're right though that panic attacks could be the answer.

 

[glorias]

It has been stated here (and I will paraphrase) that Gail was beaten by Matt, that he expected her to jump when he said so, she was made to use an inferior cell phone, she was forced to turn down a job offer, he monitored her voice mails-daily, she was terrified of him, and on and on. For her to have allowed that, she had to have been weak, beaten etc.

I just want to officially take exception to the idea that a spouse who is being abused is automatically "weak." They aren't.

 

[glorias]

snipped...

We now know that their marriage was crumbling and both parties were making preparations for separation/divorce. Has he known this was a missing person case from the beginning?

What if he is a guy who is facing the end of his marriage and a deteriorating relationship with his wife and one day she takes off? If he had nothing to do with her disappearance, why would he run to the police to report her missing?

We talked about this a lot early on in the case, if I recall. I can only speak for myself, but I thought at one point that there was a good chance that Matt really did think Gail left on her own and he, angry at her and wanting a divorce anyway, didn't bother trying to find her.

But as MP and his lawyers have released more info, that former theory of mine doesn't make sense to me personally. He and his friends describe someone who was mentally ill, yet they got no help for her. They let the kids be in her care. They didn't call police when she went missing even though they thought she was seriously mentally ill and perhaps could harm herself or others.

He also early on said that he didn't know how long Gail had been at the lake house on the 29th/30th. That's just not true: On the 29th, Matt and Gail were at the police station and she told LE she was going to the lake house with the kids. So Matt knew when she left. And Matt said he knew when she came back, stating "around noon" as was reported in the media. So why the lie that he didn't know how long she had been there?

And why all the exaggerations from Matt? I won't repost it, but I mentioned it about a month ago here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6526167&postcount=179"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #3[/ame]


Then someone tried to stop people from even looking for Gail. Someone on news forums, on FB and even on the phone anonymously tried to get people to stop passing out fliers because it was "embarrassing" Matt. (IIRC, someone here said the same thing.)

Then his lawyers started telling the media things like someone said Gail was "flat f-- up."

Even with all that, I do still think there is a slight chance that Gail drove off and, through panic or accident or bad luck, was hurt and just hasn't been found. But that is a slight chance, and like I've said before, that would be a seriously weird coincidence that a woman who was in such a panic, afraid for her safety, and in the midst of an angry, complicated separation with her husband would have an accident that would render her extremely difficult to find.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

<modsnip>
I am also not trying to be critical of anyone, but to make the assumptions and statements that have been made against Matt or anyone solely because he is the husband and that's how it normally happens in these cases is WRONG.

Finally, no, I am not ascribing motive to GP. The facts that are known are: she drove home from AL, she dropped the kids off, and she drove away. You can't get any more simple than that. Where she went or what she did is the big question, and I couldn't even venture a guess.

If those were the only known facts of this case, I think the discussion would be very different. The other facts of the case are that the marriage was ending, GP expressed fear to numerous people, there were several interactions between the couple and LE shortly before she disappeared and one of those interactions resulted in LE giving Gail the number of a safe place to stay. So I would say it's not solely because he is the husband and that's how it normally happens in these cases, I'd say it's because there are unusual aspects to this specific case.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Be serious...we have had people on this forum post photos of the house, the exact address, the address and map to his mothers house, the location of his father. If I were him I would not let the kids out of my sight, and yes, would be very paranoid about something happening to them. It seems strange to me that someone is asking about them getting to be out and about the neighborhood. In the same circumstances, I wouldn't be so worried about Gail or her family coming for them, I would be worried about some internet weirdo.

I have to give you this one. Excellent points.

 

[glorias]

The address is part of public record, correct? The media has stated the subdivision it's in, I think the street it's on as well, and of course the ownership/assets issue is why it was brought up in the first place.

I don't think MP's mom's info has been posted here. I say that because I vaguely referenced something a few weeks ago and it was modsnipped because we don't sleuth people not involved in the case, and his mom isn't AFAIK. Was there really a map to her house posted? That surprises me.

I also take exception to classifying WSers as "Internet weirdos", but that's just me. :crazy:

 

[MMRC]

AD will be interviewed today on Chattanooga Talk Radio WGOW 102.3 at 1:00 P.M.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

The address is part of public record, correct? The media has stated the subdivision it's in, I think the street it's on as well, and of course the ownership/assets issue is why it was brought up in the first place.

I don't think MP's mom's info has been posted here. I say that because I vaguely referenced something a few weeks ago and it was modsnipped because we don't sleuth people not involved in the case, and his mom isn't AFAIK. Was there really a map to her house posted? That surprises me.

I also take exception to classifying WSers as "Internet weirdos", but that's just me. :crazy:

In fairness to confused, I didn't think she meant the internet weirdos to be WSers....just stating that anyone who wishes can log on and read these posts....including internet weirdos....I think if someone posted a map to my house on here, it's very unlikely any random weirdo would decide I was worth a visit. However, if a map of my house was posted on here, I'd be freaked out for sure....and if I was involved in a case that has gotten as much attention as this case has, my concern for my children definitely would be elevated. She stated this could be a rational reason for MP keeping the kids close, and I have to say I agree.

 

[BeanE]

I've wondered about that, too. Possibly to help buy a new car during the last week of April?

The $400 every other day is easy enough to explain, it's the $40K I'm scratching my head over. He traveled a lot, but I suspect that sneaking out of that conference to go somewhere else wasn't just about fraternizing with a coworker, but probably had a lot to do with his expense account and BCBS paying for travel expenses, JMVO. So if they had paid for some or all of his travel expenses before he was fired, where DID that $40K go?

I'm praying and praying that that $40k went to the car, because the timeframe is just before Gail started telling people she thought she was being followed. IYKWIM.

I really wish we knew who any tags she got came back to. I'm assuming LE ran them.

The other thing I keep noodling on is that she told several people the following was specifically to get her tags. Thinking about what would make someone think it was to get one's tags, it indicates the follower was following her car very closely, perhaps leaning forward and looking at the back of her car.

Why would someone want to know the tag number? All I can think of is because the person was actually not looking for tag# but just annoyed the person was going too slow and was cussing them out , to report the person for erratic driving, or to verify for sure that they had the right vehicle/right person.

That's about as far as I got with that noodling.

 

[BeanE]

First let me wonder did Matt actually use that specific word? I just don't remember if HE, himself did, or was that a quote of a quote of a quote. I truly don't remember, so just checking.

Ok, well as to point #1, I remember the word "abandoned" in the court documents as well as quoted in the media. I do not recall if Matt was actually quoted as saying that word, but his lawyers, who work for him, have used it repeatedly.

I tried to find the word - 'abandoned' - last night and couldn't. If someone could help me out, I'd appreciate it.

 

[BeanE]

Can someone please point me to the links where the $40k is talked about? I don't remember who started that idea floating around and how we know it's fact. Thanks!

I'm catching up from last night, and this has prolly already been posted. Nevertheless, it was in both of Arlene's interviews with SMM. The first, she said he asked Gail for $20k, then $20k again 3 weeks later, without saying if Gail gave him the 2nd $20k - just the first.

In the 2nd interview, Arlene said that Gail had given him the 2nd $20k as well.

In my mindmap version of the timeline, you can find lots of these little details, and each box has a link on it to the source of the info.

Link to my website in my signature. Just click Gail's name at the top of any page to get to her Case Reference, and the link to the mindmap timeline.

 

[glorias]

"Unsupervised" is the word I saw most often, but there was one person here who used "abandoned" when theorizing about the situation. I would swear I once saw a comment on a news article from someone who used that word saying Gail had abandoned the kids, too. But I don't know that MP himself ever used it in official documents or to the media.

 

[BeanE]

Is it possible Gail's family/sister could ask for POA in Gail's absence? Especially considering MP had filed for a legal separation in the beginning and it was known a divorce was probably in the works?

I had posted about a temporary POA the other day, wondering if that could be used to take physical possession of at least items that are clearly Gail's property, such as the coins that were gifts from family. Per the TN laws I posted, I don't think there's any question they are hers and hers alone. Or maybe if Diane/Kevin can't have physical possession, if they could get them placed into a safety deposit box in a bank in some sort of trust status.

We need a lawyer in this thread! lol

 

[BeanE]

BBM- I have been wanting to ask this for a while, so this gives me a good opportunity. MP's handling of things has been a source of frustration for a lot of people, but most of us came into this knowing it as a "missing person" case. We now know that their marriage was crumbling and both parties were making preparations for separation/divorce. Has he known this was a missing person case from the beginning?

What if he is a guy who is facing the end of his marriage and a deteriorating relationship with his wife and one day she takes off? If he had nothing to do with her disappearance, why would he run to the police to report her missing? When he realizes she isn't coming back and no one can get in touch with her... maybe he starts to wonder if he is being set-up. I know that I would certainly get a defense attorney at that point. I know that I had an affair, I know that things have been going downhill and I know that everyone's eyes are pointed right at me. Filing the motion in court to keep her from taking off with the kids and marital assets without due process of a divorce would also be a reasonable action if you are in a position where you feel like you are being set-up. Once things start to sink in, maybe he looked back and realized that things had gotten worse than he had thought. Her behaviors that seemed odd may now point to something else. I have stated before that hindsight is 20/20...

I don't want everyone to jump on the "MP is innocent" bandwagon, I am only trying (once again) to point out that such scenarios are plausible.

A lot of people have asked for proof before they will believe that GP was having issues with mental illness and that is a completely valid request. I think that we should also require proof before we believe that MP asked GP for $40k and that the money was actually used by him before we believe that as well.

I am unsure if it was a missing person case from the beginning. I'm referring to LE. May 17 was the HCSO press conference and announcements and BOLOs etc, and on that day, several reports said "it's now official". Prior to that, there are statements from reporters saying LE wouldn't give any comment at all about Gail. My impression has been that it didn't become a missing person case until the 17th, or perhaps within the few days before and then announced on the 17th.

The tweets prior to the 17th are interesting to read through.

 

[BeanE]

He also early on said that he didn't know how long Gail had been at the lake house on the 29th/30th. That's just not true: On the 29th, Matt and Gail were at the police station and she told LE she was going to the lake house with the kids. So Matt knew when she left. And Matt said he knew when she came back, stating "around noon" as was reported in the media. So why the lie that he didn't know how long she had been there?

I didn't realize that Matt had said Gail arrived home around noon. I've been scratching my head over what time she left the lake house, and what time she arrived home.

I'd like to pinpoint this time better (the time she arrived home). Any help with references would be greatly appreciated if anyone has them handy.

 

[JBean]

IN the separation filing she is said to have "abandoned " her children and her home.

also BeanE was asking before not sure if was answered but according to the filing the COA was received by Matt 5/5 and it was dated 4/30.

 

[glorias]

Matt says she arrived at noon here:

http://buffaloprofessional.com/news...ing-signal-woman-chattanooga-times-free-press

Matt Palmgren said his wife returned with the children and the family&#8217;s dogs early April 30 from the family&#8217;s lake house, about 20 miles north of Montgomery, Ala. He said he did not know how long she had been there and that she dropped the children off with no one home at about noon.

Susie Button says she saw Gail leave about 12:15:

http://www.wrcbtv.com/global/story.asp?s=14601268

"I saw her leaving around 12:15 that afternoon and I ran up the hill to say hi, because I knew she'd been upset for quite a while. Things have been going on at the house," said neighbor Susie Button. "She just drove away, she never even acknowledged me."

Edited to add this link, it's the one where ATRUEFRIEND comments below the news article that the kids were in the house only 10 minutes before Matt arrived:

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/12/missing-womans-husband-seeks-custody-children/