TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

[Irish_Eyes]

I have been looking at other similar cases where the marriage was volatile and divorce was being discussed or had been initiated and the wife disappears and leaves the kids behind and the husband claims she left on her own accord and that she was either depressed, crazy, having an affair, etc. This storyline is not entirely unheard of. Anyway, I did notice that it took a few months, but eventually when the victim did not contact anyone or access bank accounts and was not confirmed seen by anyone the status of these cases was changed, and LE determined that enough time had gone by where it was reasonable to suspect foul play. It seems it happens quicker in some cases than in others, I'm guessing it's at the discretion of the local LE/prosecutors based on the info they have on that specific case and their own judgement. It's frustrating this waiting game then, because I truly believe that once that happens and the investigation moves forward Gail can still be found.

 

[glorias]

snipped for space

I don't believe that AD realized Tennessee is an equitable distribution state, so marital assets do include: "the value of vested pension, retirement, or other fringe benefit rights accrued during the period of the marriage."

I can also imagine at one time that all the money was 'their' money, as in most cases, until the talk of divorce arises, regardless of who's name was on an account. JMHO

Right, those are excellent points and they illustrate why I don't think Matt was lying per se but exaggerating. Maybe re-framing is a better word. The article I was referring to said:

A week after Gail was last seen, Matthew Palmgren filed papers to claim Gail took jewelry, changed pin numbers to bank accounts containing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and took the children's passports.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14627648

The jewelry turned out to be her family's jewelry and the PINs were to three retirement accounts in her name. Yet the paperwork he filed in court against his wife mentioned these things as supporting evidence for needing a restraining order. "I need a restraining order because my wife took our jewelry and money and ran off" is different than "I need a restraining order because my wife gave her family heirloom jewelry to someone else and changed PINs on retirement accounts in her name and then ran off." It's not a lie, but it's an exaggeration, a re-framing of what occurred.

That's why when Matt says Gail was "delusional" (in the same article) I question what he means. Is that being re-framed too? Is it 100% accurate? I don't know. I'm not sure anyone does.

 

[Sleuthy1]

No. I mean Matt lies and exaggerates, and that makes me question if what he claims about Gail being paranoid is true or not. There's no confirmation. In fact, we have direct contradictions from Diane, Arlene, and LE, plus JBean's confirmation she was prescribed only antidepressants.

I mentioned Matt's exaggerations quite some time ago, in early May I think, right around the time of the press conference. See, Matt had said in the press conference that the Jeep had been spotted a few times. Callie Starnes asked the spokeswoman for clarification but got no answer, and only 1-2 days later did we find out that the Jeep had NOT been spotted, but there had been sightings of other Jeeps that were not Gail's.

Prior to that, Matt would say things like the kids were left alone without supervision by Gail, which of course implies a problem -- that's why he included it in the paperwork he initially filed with the court. However, what we have been told is that he had already proposed to meet Gail (presumably with the kids) at the house anyway, and it's likely he was called by Gail when she dropped them off. The recent letter about the reward adds credence to that particular theory, as it says Gail spoke to Matt on the 30th. Besides, the kids apparently were only alone for a few minutes.

Another example is that he said Gail changed PINs on marital assets when it was confirmed by JBean that it was PINs on her own personal retirement accounts. Arlene also mentioned it in a Jammer interview, IIRC.

The lie was that he claimed he didn't know how long Gail was at the lake house when he clearly did. I won't repeat myself on that, it's been said enough.

I have NEVER discounted the fact that Gail may have harmed herself. I just don't feel Matt's and his lawyer's word that she was mentally ill is enough to prove anything, for me personally.

I don't believe that AD realized Tennessee is an equitable distribution state, so marital assets do include: "the value of vested pension, retirement, or other fringe benefit rights accrued during the period of the marriage."

I recall 10 years of marriage and it starts at 50/50, then argued from there, if there is not a settlement between parties. I am sure GP was annoyed (and I do recall afterwards AD stating the PINS MP gave GP were in fact correct, then said he probably switched them back or something), but I imagine GP got to her funds when she handed MP over $40K weeks prior to 4/30, as well as send $17K to Diane.

I can also imagine at one time that all the money was 'their' money, as in most cases, until the talk of divorce arises, regardless of who's name was on an account. JMHO
BBM
http://www.divorcenet.com/states/tennessee/tn_faq02

Food for thought....Hmmmmm....What are Alabama state laws with regard to divorce?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Exactly that. I don't think he was THAT serious over TH. It was just an image he liked to portray, imo. Mr. Casanova. We've seen over time how important his image is to him. There have been mulitiple reports of this, plus the added "unconfirmed" relationship with the gal in GA, but AD said she got from TH's estanged hubby, who got it from their teen daughter.

Snipped by me.

It just never ceases to amaze me that women who have affairs with married men expect these men to be faithful to them.

I see it all the time with my ex. These girls that come into his life for a time, and think he's amazing and buy into every story he tells them about how mean and crazy and horrible I am. Then after they've seen for themselves his anger and controlling ways, after he's bankrupted them and cheated on them they leave or he leaves and it starts all over again with another girl. I just wish I could sit them down and save them some heartache, but it never seems to work out that way.

I say this like I'm so smart, but in reality I was just a 22 year old second wife who could have saved some heartache myself if I had listened to what his first wife told me. So I wasn't any different. I was just out of college and thought I knew everything. I came from a loving, non-abusive upbringing so I didn't think it could happen to me.

So part of me wants to have sympathy for TH, but I just can't. If TH knows anything that even in the slightest way might be connected to GP's disappearance I hope she has shared it with LE. I hope whatever picture MP painted of GP, that she realizes that those kids really love their mom and really deserve to have her back.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Food for thought....Hmmmmm....What are Alabama state laws with regard to divorce?

I don't know that it matters. Most states have residency requirements of 6 months or so before you can file for a divorce to avoid jurisdiction shopping. Ironically, some states have laws that make an exception to the time required to establish residency if a party is fleeing to another state due to domestic violence. This is risky however. If the victim doesn't have a solid enough paper trail to prove a DV exception is warranted it can backfire. The abuser can say she was just trying to alienate him from the kids and can actually wind up getting custody. So I'm not sure Gail would have gone that route, IMO, since there is no documentation of anything like that that we know of. The court might have allowed her to move to parts of NC, AL, or GA that are pretty close to Chattanooga, but Tennessee would most likely have retained jurisdiction over the divorce.

 

[Some1Nose]

Snipped by me.

So part of me wants to have sympathy for TH, but I just can't. If TH knows anything that even in the slightest way might be connected to GP's disappearance I hope she has shared it with LE. I hope whatever picture MP painted of GP, that she realizes that those kids really love their mom and really deserve to have her back.

There are those cases, as well, wherein the husband's girlfriend takes matters into her own "jealous" hands....IMOO

I just heard about a very recent case in Washington State wherein the wife, who was in the process of divorce and had a seven year old son, was lethally shot in the chest...it turned out that the husband's gf shot her while the husband covered up evidence.

Just Sayin'

Some1

 

[hollyblue]

My understanding, just from following cases, and which of course could be dead wrong, is that with adults, it works the opposite way - they have to assume it's of the person's own accord, and that the person is fine, unless/until they have indications it may be otherwise, that is, that it wasn't of the person's free will, or that the person is not okay (good physical and mental health).

If they do get any of those 'otherwise' indications, they can do certain things they couldn't previously, but there are limitations unless/until they come across indications that a crime has been committed.

They have no evidence of foul play per Atkinson, HCSO, the other day. They seem to have classified Gail as endangered per the HCSO and CPD BOLOs and ADPS alert on or about May 17. The Endangered status opened a few doors for them, but the lack of any evidence of foul play leaves other closed.

My opinion based on the info available to date.

Per the last radio interview, it was mentioned GP was taking medication for ADD and an anti-depressant. I wonder if she had the meds with her and if not what effect could it have on her? Possibly the combo of not having the meds and the stress of the situation would not be a good thing? I know nothing of the either medication, so maybe someone can add to this thought?

 

[BeanE]

No. I mean Matt lies and exaggerates

Okay. I thought maybe you meant specifically about paranoia. Thanks.

 

[CatFancier]

Its too bad that Matt Palmgren didn't offer an award since he's got plenty to burn.

Can't imagine that he does with his PI being on the clock so much and not having access to GP's retirement funds...

 

[glorias]

Per the last radio interview, it was mentioned GP was taking medication for ADD and an anti-depressant. I wonder if she had the meds with her and if not what effect could it have on her? Possibly the combo of not having the meds and the stress of the situation would not be a good thing? I know nothing of the either medication, so maybe someone can add to this thought?

I am not a doctor and have had no significant medical training, just experience as a transcriptionist. My opinion is that the list of medication combinations is so lengthy no one would ever be able to guess what she was taking. Some medications can be used for both conditions, some meds are used "off label," etc.

And the side effects seem completely unpredictable to me. Each person reacts differently to each medication. Some side effects occur while on the meds, some while adjusting the dose, and some while quitting the med. They can be affected by everything from caffeine to allergy nasal sprays to standing out in the sun for more than 15 minutes. Even if we knew the meds, I don't think we could predict with any certainty how it affected her.

This is all just my opinion. Hopefully one of the RNs can weigh in with more specifics.

 

[BeanE]

See, Matt had said in the press conference that the Jeep had been spotted a few times. Callie Starnes asked the spokeswoman for clarification but got no answer, and only 1-2 days later did we find out that the Jeep had NOT been spotted, but there had been sightings of other Jeeps that were not Gail's.

I guess I assumed LE or PI Mathis or just somebody around town had told him about Susie Button, the hardware store person, Carol, or something. And there's that picture that reporter took of a Jeep that looks like Gail's.

I know from Gabe's case that there are reported sightings in missing person cases that the media and public don't get told about. People will give sightings to a PI or the family that they haven't even called in as tips. There's a hesitancy about it because they're unsure if it's valid sighting.

For that matter, follow enough of these cases, and you'll see people post sightings on the net that they haven't told LE or the PIs about.

I had people tell me about sightings of Gabe they hadn't told anyone else, and I had to get them to call it in, and I had to send the info to the family and PIs. I didn't see those sightings in the media. I didn't see them talked about anywhere.

So I guess if I had said on here there had been sightings, people would have called me a liar. :floorlaugh:

 

[Oriah]

Not to change the subject BeanE, but this is something I've been wondering about?

Respectfully snipped:

<JBean confirmed a list of meds Gail was on, and while we can't go too much into it because of confidentiality reasons, she confirmed there was nothing on there for psychoses, merely meds for depression.>

This is something that has caused me additional concern- specifically about Gail's missing information and poster information.

Without violating Gail's privacy, they should include 'needs medicine' (if any prescription medication(s) are not missing along with Gail. )

A 'needs medicine' alert is an important component, at least from a SAR aspect.

Is Gail in need of prescription medication? If she is, does she carry it with her or in her vehicle?

TIA.

 

[BeanE]

I have been looking at other similar cases where the marriage was volatile and divorce was being discussed or had been initiated and the wife disappears and leaves the kids behind and the husband claims she left on her own accord and that she was either depressed, crazy, having an affair, etc. This storyline is not entirely unheard of. Anyway, I did notice that it took a few months, but eventually when the victim did not contact anyone or access bank accounts and was not confirmed seen by anyone the status of these cases was changed, and LE determined that enough time had gone by where it was reasonable to suspect foul play. It seems it happens quicker in some cases than in others, I'm guessing it's at the discretion of the local LE/prosecutors based on the info they have on that specific case and their own judgement. It's frustrating this waiting game then, because I truly believe that once that happens and the investigation moves forward Gail can still be found.

Irish, did you happen to notice if, in any of those cases, where the spouse ended up being charged, if, after the disappearance, they had hired a PI to find their missing spouse? Or where there were children, if any had put those children in counseling?

I've been looking for cases with either of those, and unable to find any as of yet.

TIA

 

[BeanE]

The jewelry turned out to be her family's jewelry

Matt's document/what his attorney said in court (based on articles, since we're not allowed to post the documents) says some of the jewelry was Gail's, and some was his mother's. I think one article says some was Matt's jewelry.

Diane's petition (again based on articles, since we're not allowed to post the documents) said Gail gave jewelry belonging to her and her mother to a friend, which had been given in turn by the friend to Matt.

I'm trying to find something saying that it turned out that none of the jewelry belonged to Matt or his mother, but rather, all of it belonged to Gail and/or her family.

I'm coming up with nada. Can you help?

TIA

 

[BeanE]

Quote:

A week after Gail was last seen, Matthew Palmgren filed papers to claim Gail took jewelry, changed pin numbers to bank accounts containing hundreds of thousands of dollars, and took the children's passports.

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14627648

The jewelry turned out to be her family's jewelry and the PINs were to three retirement accounts in her name. Yet the paperwork he filed in court against his wife mentioned these things as supporting evidence for needing a restraining order. "I need a restraining order because my wife took our jewelry and money and ran off" is different than "I need a restraining order because my wife gave her family heirloom jewelry to someone else and changed PINs on retirement accounts in her name and then ran off." It's not a lie, but it's an exaggeration, a re-framing of what occurred.

I really wish we could post the documents, instead of going by what people, including reporters, say the documents say. Makes me crazy. :floorlaugh:

That said, this article indicates that Matt acknowledged in the document that the accounts were in Gail's name. He also didn't claim that all the money in those accounts were marital assets, but gave the totals, and what portion of those totals he was claiming were marital assets.

This is just typical marital financial stuff. Each party claims what portion they think is not marital, but theirs alone, and then it's hashed out in court, and the judge makes a ruling on what belongs to each individual, and what are shared assets to be split.


Matthew Palmgren said in an affidavit

<snipped to point>

He said he was notified that she had changed her pin number to three bank accounts in her name. He said the accounts contain approximately $420,000.

He said at least two of the accounts totaling over $320,000 "are marital property."

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_200931.asp

I don't think the jewelry or the financials were related to the restraining order - I think the restraining order was because Matt was afraid Gail may come back and take the children, possibly even out of the country, and I think what was in the document about that was that she had given the passports to Susie Button.

Mr. Palmgren said his wife had removed passports from the home and he fears his wife could remove the children from the country.

 

[rosiebean]

Irish, did you happen to notice if, in any of those cases, where the spouse ended up being charged, if, after the disappearance, they had hired a PI to find their missing spouse? Or where there were children, if any had put those children in counseling?

I've been looking for cases with either of those, and unable to find any as of yet.

TIA

I am not Irish, but I will say that I personally have seen no evidence that MP's pi is actually looking for Gail. A lawyer whose job it is to protect his client's telling me so isn't enough for me, but that's imo of course. I can't speak to the counseling part, though I wish MP would have allowed his kids to speak to their maternal relatives or the police early on as it would have done wonders for public perception of him. I am one on the fence in this case, but I cannot ignore some early actions. As always, imo.

 

[Oriah]

I really wish we could post the documents, instead of going by what people, including reporters, say the documents say. Makes me crazy. :floorlaugh:

That said, this article indicates that Matt acknowledged in the document that the accounts were in Gail's name. He also didn't claim that all the money in those accounts were marital assets, but gave the totals, and what portion of those totals he was claiming were marital assets.

This is just typical marital financial stuff. Each party claims what portion they think is not marital, but theirs alone, and then it's hashed out in court, and the judge makes a ruling on what belongs to each individual, and what are shared assets to be split.


Matthew Palmgren said in an affidavit

<snipped to point>

He said he was notified that she had changed her pin number to three bank accounts in her name. He said the accounts contain approximately $420,000.

He said at least two of the accounts totaling over $320,000 "are marital property."

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_200931.asp

I don't think the jewelry or the financials were related to the restraining order - I think the restraining order was because Matt was afraid Gail may come back and take the children, possibly even out of the country, and I think what was in the document about that was that she had given the passports to Susie Button.

Mr. Palmgren said his wife had removed passports from the home and he fears his wife could remove the children from the country.

BBM: Bean, this has been nagging at me as well.

Do we have any other documentation that Gail and the children's passports are missing?

 

[believe09]

Matt had made an appointment the week before to see attorney on Tue May 3, the day after he filed the missing person report, so I *think* May 3 is the day he retained the attorneys & the PIs. It's the closest I've been able to come for a date. He had to have retained them by Thu May 5, because on Fri May 6, they filed docs on his behalf.

I haven't seen anything about Matt having a PI prior to that - only Gail. Gail having a PI comes only from Arlene. I'd love to have some confirmation that Gail had a PI.

Agreed. So at the minimum he had not retained family law attorneys, apparently, prior to that date. Apparently, neither had Gail because no one has stepped forward confirming that. At least in public.

 

[believe09]

Has LE gotten Gail's phone records to get her pings? A tweet from a reporter yesterday indicates they haven't, because they don't have probable cause to get a subpoena for them.

Who was Gail's PI working for after Thu Apr 28th that they would have researched Gail's and Matt's pings for?

If Gail tossed her phone on Mountain Creek Rd where the last cell activity was reported to be (where did that info come from since it didn't come from LE?), and then she drove, say, to the lake house, or New York, or Mexico, or New England, then the pings wouldn't lead you to the Jeep, would they?

If Gail committed suicide by driving into a body of water, say Lake Jordan, then Matt's pings aren't going to lead to her Jeep, are they?

What happens to a cell's pings when a cell goes into a body of water?

They have the cell phone records for Gail. Different carriers handle things differently-there is also a chance that the carrier would have agreed to give the records to a family member as long as a police report was on file or sent as back up.

 

[BeanE]

Per the last radio interview, it was mentioned GP was taking medication for ADD and an anti-depressant. I wonder if she had the meds with her and if not what effect could it have on her? Possibly the combo of not having the meds and the stress of the situation would not be a good thing? I know nothing of the either medication, so maybe someone can add to this thought?

It's my understanding that it's very unusual for an adult female Gail's age to be diagnosed as having ADD, let alone be on meds for it.

I'd like to know what that medication was, because I have a feeling it's one that's also prescribed for other things, and that it was given to Gail for other things than ADD. Klonipin would be an example. It's my understanding that it's prescribed for ADD, but also for panic/anxiety disorders, and for schizo-affective disorder. It's my understanding those disorders could easily account for some of Gail's reported behaviors - e.g., calling people and saying she was scared but not saying why; suddenly thinking a friend was taking her kids and calling 911; thinking she might be being followed.

I was also curious about Arlene's mention of schizophrenia. Where did that come from? Did she say that Matt had put that in his legal document?