TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

[Oriah]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but I am still perplexed at the GPS/ping situation. (?)

Let me see if I have this straight.

There is or was a factory installed GPS on the Jeep.
There were two additional GPS units; of which at least one was in the Jeep.(?)
Gail's Blackberry (Sprint service) was in the Jeep.
There may have been other devices in the Jeep that would ping if the vehicle were on (such as on the way back to SM from AL.)
Cell and satellite logs of different devices should be intact, if the vehicle is intact.
Some devices may have remote access, but others may not.
Gail's Blackberry pinged at the 'base' of SM (SE side) on the day she was reported missing.
Are there no GPS pings from the vehicle that correlate with that?

How in heck can we not locate this vehicle???

 

[Oriah]

Oh man, hollyblue, I can't believe I didn't catch this when I first read your post. We didn't know if she had her purse with her when she left -- now we do! You're right, she had her purse and her phone but not her credit cards or driver's license.

It's so odd. I still wonder if she deliberately left them at the SM home before leaving about 12:15 that day.

You know, glorias- I have been wondering about this for awhile. This is kind of O/T but do we know who is currently in possession of Gail's credit cards and license? Is it LE?

The reason why I ask, is because running her license # might produce something if she was ever stopped somewhere for a moving violation or similar.

 

[glorias]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but I am still perplexed at the GPS/ping situation. (?)

Let me see if I have this straight.

There is or was a factory installed GPS on the Jeep.
There were two additional GPS units; of which at least one was in the Jeep.(?)
Gail's Blackberry (Sprint service) was in the Jeep.
There may have been other devices in the Jeep that would ping if the vehicle were on (such as on the way back to SM from AL.)
Cell and satellite logs of different devices should be intact, if the vehicle is intact.
Some devices may have remote access, but others may not.
Gail's Blackberry pinged at the 'base' of SM (SE side) on the day she was reported missing.
Are there no GPS pings from the vehicle that correlate with that?

How in heck can we not locate this vehicle???

GPS: I think there are two, the original one (removed) and the one she bought (which may or may not be on the Jeep right now, no one knows). Arlene said it was her understanding that nothing from that second new GPS could be traced, so there were no pings from the vehicle.

No one knows what happened to the Blackberry/cell after Gail made her last call. There are GPS apps for Blackberries so it's possible she had one, and also of course the phone could be pinged. It was confirmed she had the phone with her when she left ([ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6518079#post6518079"]link here[/ame]) but we don't know anything about the pings from that point until the May 2nd one. We don't even know if LE has records from the phone. Last I knew, they were asked by a reporter and wouldn't comment. (Link here.)

You're right, with Blackberry and the GPS, the Jeep should be easy to find. But if the Blackberry wasn't with Gail anymore and the GPS had been removed, suddenly it's not so easy.

 

[Oriah]

Respectfully snipped:

<You're right, with Blackberry and the GPS, the Jeep should be easy to find. But if the Blackberry wasn't with Gail anymore and the GPS had been removed, suddenly it's not so easy>

This is where I am totally hung up. The 'removal' of the factory installed GPS. Is there a date, time, and location for that? That I have missed somewhere?

 

[Annie_61]

Ok I will be honest, I really don’t know how much faith to place in psychics, like most I have seen some amazing TV shows regarding the subject but I have never personally had anything to do with one, so am by no means qualified to comment on if psychics are real or not.

But the below lines from two different MSM does make you go:dunno:

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/21/psychics-peer-into-palmgren-case/
He said a green pickup and a bald man between the ages of 48 and 50 are connected to her disappearance.
Area I see is not where people go," wrote Hasan

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

She said the last time they saw the vehicle it was stopped beside a pickup truck.
She said, "This is a very remote area. The detectives were surprised at how isolated it is.


hmmm the practical side of me says, someone has just been doing some research on the case, but then that doesn't explain the purse details. :waitasec:

Ok I am not saying there is anything in this, I just thought it was interesting.

 

[Oriah]

Ok I will be honest, I really don’t know how much faith to place in psychics, like most I have seen some amazing TV shows regarding the subject but I have never personally had anything to do with one, so am by no means qualified to comment on if psychics are real or not.

But the below lines from two different MSM does make you go:dunno:

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/21/psychics-peer-into-palmgren-case/
He said a green pickup and a bald man between the ages of 48 and 50 are connected to her disappearance.
Area I see is not where people go," wrote Hasan

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

She said the last time they saw the vehicle it was stopped beside a pickup truck.
She said, "This is a very remote area. The detectives were surprised at how isolated it is.

Hi Annie!
You know, this article has plagued me...
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

The inconsistances are alarming to me. :waitasec:

 

[believe09]

For some of the newer folks, here is Tricia's position on psychics:

Dear Websleuths Members,

Hopefully after you read this post you will have a clearer understanding of certain issues on Websleuths.

Psychics On Websleuths. ​

This topic has always been a hot potato and very controversial.

The reason I do not allow psychic discussions on Websleuths has to do with controversy and the problems that come along with allowing psychics on the forum.

How do you tell which psychic is correct?

Who do we link to and who do we not link to as far as psychics?

What if a psychic is popular but wants money, do we link and discuss that psychic?

Imagine how many psychics would suddenly appear on Websleuths discussing their "visions" on cases if we allowed this. Psychics that could casually steer people to their for profit only websites.

We do not have the people power to monitor every post every psychic makes. No way.

How do we let just a few psychics on the site? Who decides who is good enough to post and who isn't?


If I opened the door to psychic visions Websleuths would turn into a battle ground like no other. I know this to be a fact. Just one mention of one psychic on the Caylee Anthony forum caused me so much grief and hell I can't tell you.

The battle wouldn't be between members and psychics. It would be between psychics and psychics.

You should have seen the behind the scenes crap that went on between waring factions of Psychics. It was disgusting.

I will not allow Websleuths to be used by people who claim to be psychic just so they can become famous.

Of course I know not all psychics are like this but trust me when I tell you most of the ones who will want to post on Websleuths will not have the best interest of the families in their hearts. In my opinion based on past experience.

Of course there are very dedicated, kind, and caring psychics. No doubt. Those people would be drowned out by the others.

So, between deciding which psychics to let post and which ones to not, between the waring factions of the psychics, between the posters who despise psychics and those who do not, I cannot allow psychics on Websleuths because of the problems.

As it is we have enough to deal with concerning posters who are offering their opinions. Can you imagine if we started allowing psychics to post their visions? OMG. It gives me a headache thinking about it.

I am not going to comment on whether psychics are true or not but I will say I would never feel comfortable allowing the psychics I have seen on the web on my forum. Not all of them but most of them.

It would cause more harm for the moderators, for the members, and most of all for the families.

Think Sylvia Browne and Shawn Hornbeck. Think desperate families coming to Websleuths and having to deal with the psychics who do not have any scruples. Who, like Sylvia Browne, would pull something out of their behind no matter who it hurts. Like she did with Shawn.

It is too much trouble. Websleuths is above all of this.

One exception is if in the main stream media a psychic makes the news. Then I have no problem linking to the article, video, or audio in the main stream media about the psychic.

Please understand I made this decision based on years of experience. My goal is to make Websleuths a place for all to enjoy, a place for new people to come and feel comfortable, free of the usual problems associated with discussion forums.

Free of the battle of the psychics, the battle about who is real and who isn't, the battle of who is in it for money and who isn't and who is saying what about which psychic and why. Websleuths is free from all of these issues and will continue to be.

Thank you for all you do and your participation.

Sincerely,
Tricia

 

[carolinagirl56]

I, for one, would love to see SAR Canines brought in to search for Gail! SAR Canines are exceptionally gifted with heightened senses, therefore, I think it would be a significant lapse in judgment not to involve such searching, unless, of course, LE has information, we're not privy to, that leads them to think SAR Canine searches of the SM area would prove irrelevant.

Using SAR Canines, I think it would make sense to begin at the SM Palmgren home and work outward from there. I believe the densely wooded areas on SM as well as the areas along and below the main roads leading off SM need to be thoroughly searched. If no hits are made, then I would proceed to areas with dense foliage at the bottom of the mountain and more comprehensive waterway searches (for her cell phone, as well). After that, I would cover the other forests connecting to SM, as some posters have described, and thoroughly search the area that CC reported having spotted Gail in her Jeep Rubicon with a 'mystery' passenger during the late afternoon/early evening hours of 4/30.

(I realize that some of the SM terrain as well as the foliage is difficult, at best, to traverse, but SAR Canines can access areas more readily than their human counterparts (yes, their handlers will have to follow them in to areas but they're a hardy bunch, too, from what I hear...

I did a Google Earth seach of Gail's SM neighborhood and the surrounding area (the satellite images were captured in 10/2010), I was surprised to see how densely wooded the area adjacent to Gail's SM residence is...it looked to be that way for several miles.

Also, I noticed at least four (4) bodies of water across the street from Gail's SM home...couldn't tell if they were holding ponds, natural ponds or small lakes but I would definitely think a search of those areas would be in order, as well! All IMHO

Holding ponds.

 

[Some1Nose]

Carolina Girl - Thanks for the clarification. Wonder if the holding ponds have been checked?

 

[Some1Nose]

...would love to see SAR Canines brought in to search for Gail! SAR Canines are exceptionally gifted with heightened senses...

Quoting myself here...whether Gail is a victim of foul play or not, she is Missing! I have a hard time believing that LE would let the public continue to think someone is missing if they know this not to be true such as if they are aware that she is in hiding unless she's under the cover of witness protection!

Maybe our SAR expert, Oriah, knows of SAR organizations in the area that could search for Gail; however, someone with authority to sanction such search efforts have to make the request, either LE and/or the family, etc., I do believe.

 

[BeanE]

Respectfully snipped:

<You're right, with Blackberry and the GPS, the Jeep should be easy to find. But if the Blackberry wasn't with Gail anymore and the GPS had been removed, suddenly it's not so easy>

This is where I am totally hung up. The 'removal' of the factory installed GPS. Is there a date, time, and location for that? That I have missed somewhere?

After listening to the interview several times yesterday, I no longer think the factory installed GPS was removed. When Susan asks why it was removed, Arlene says "it was a separate one", indicating a different one that was removed.

From my notes posted yesterday:

SMM: Why take out what was put in by manufacturer?

Arlene: It was a separate one. Arlene was with Gail when Gail bought it.

ETA: Here's the link to the June 16 Susan Murphy Milano interview of Arlene. The discussion of the blackbox/GPS starts at about 54 minutes.
http://herewomentalkradio.com/home/archives_details/805

 

[Annie_61]

What are the chances of another phone being in the Jeep, hence the purchase of a new phone Sunday?

after a long trip it might have been left behind in the Jeep if others were rushed out of the Jeep so Gail could leave.

 

[Oriah]

After listening to the interview several times yesterday, I no longer think the factory installed GPS was removed. When Susan asks why it was removed, Arlene says "it was a separate one", indicating a different one that was removed.

From my notes posted yesterday:

SMM: Why take out what was put in by manufacturer?

Arlene: It was a separate one. Arlene was with Gail when Gail bought it.

ETA: Here's the link to the June 16 Susan Murphy Milano interview of Arlene. The discussion of the blackbox/GPS starts at about 54 minutes.
http://herewomentalkradio.com/home/archives_details/805

Yep, Bean. This has been my confusion behind not understanding the ping situation; and trying to triagulate what, where, and when did each device that may have pinged.... ping?

There is an awful lot of possibilities for 'pings' going on here. Kwim?

 

[Oriah]

Quoting myself here...whether Gail is a victim of foul play or not, she is Missing! I have a hard time believing that LE would let the public continue to think someone is missing if they know this not to be true such as if they are aware that she is in hiding unless she's under the cover of witness protection!

Maybe our SAR expert, Oriah, knows of SAR organizations in the area that could search for Gail; however, someone with authority to sanction such search efforts have to make the request, either LE and/or the family, etc., I do believe.

Some1Nose, I think you are spot on here. Gail is missing.

And (this is my personal opinion only) there are people MISSING Gail.

In working with LE regarding missing adults- this is hugely important.

 

[KariKae]

After listening to the interview several times yesterday, I no longer think the factory installed GPS was removed. When Susan asks why it was removed, Arlene says "it was a separate one", indicating a different one that was removed.

From my notes posted yesterday:

SMM: Why take out what was put in by manufacturer?

Arlene: It was a separate one. Arlene was with Gail when Gail bought it.

ETA: Here's the link to the June 16 Susan Murphy Milano interview of Arlene. The discussion of the blackbox/GPS starts at about 54 minutes.
http://herewomentalkradio.com/home/archives_details/805

I tend to agree...Removing a factory installed GPS would leave a gaping hole in the dash.

I envision the purchased GPS to be a Tom Tom or similar.

 

[Oriah]

I tend to agree...Removing a factory installed GPS would leave a gaping hole in the dash.

I envision the purchased GPS to be a Tom Tom or similar.

Yep. MOO, but I think there are several GPS-accessible devices (and features) going on here.

You can have a Tom Tom or similar GPS in your vehicle- take it and throw it out the window and poof- the ping is no longer your vehicle, but the device itself.
You can do the same with a huge variety of locating devices added to your vehicle. (Not much different than a cell, but a little.)

On something factory installed.... not so much. And if one WERE to actually remove a GPS system installed- well- it would ping from where the unit ended up- if it had service.

Except it wouldn't- because it would have been destroyed in the process of removal, I think. hwow:

Hmm. I don't know what to think at this point- except that the odds of not being able to locate half a dozen GPS device pings coming from the same tower or satellite seems very unusual to me.

How is the only ping clarification we have from Gail's Blackberry at the base of SM???

 

[hollyblue]

GPS: I think there are two, the original one (removed) and the one she bought (which may or may not be on the Jeep right now, no one knows). Arlene said it was her understanding that nothing from that second new GPS could be traced, so there were no pings from the vehicle.

No one knows what happened to the Blackberry/cell after Gail made her last call. There are GPS apps for Blackberries so it's possible she had one, and also of course the phone could be pinged. It was confirmed she had the phone with her when she left (link here) but we don't know anything about the pings from that point until the May 2nd one. We don't even know if LE has records from the phone. Last I knew, they were asked by a reporter and wouldn't comment. (Link here.)

You're right, with Blackberry and the GPS, the Jeep should be easy to find. But if the Blackberry wasn't with Gail anymore and the GPS had been removed, suddenly it's not so easy.

BBM- Thinking, do we have a definite time AFTER the 12:15 sighting of GP making or rec'g a call? To date I can't recall that ever being stated? The calls to Diane, talking to LE, and the call w/Matt all could have occurred prior to her? dropping the kids off.

Is it possible GP could disable the GPS because she was worried about being tracked by MP?

 

[hollyblue]

Ok I will be honest, I really don’t know how much faith to place in psychics, like most I have seen some amazing TV shows regarding the subject but I have never personally had anything to do with one, so am by no means qualified to comment on if psychics are real or not.

But the below lines from two different MSM does make you go:dunno:

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/21/psychics-peer-into-palmgren-case/
He said a green pickup and a bald man between the ages of 48 and 50 are connected to her disappearance.
Area I see is not where people go," wrote Hasan

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

She said the last time they saw the vehicle it was stopped beside a pickup truck.
She said, "This is a very remote area. The detectives were surprised at how isolated it is.


hmmm the practical side of me says, someone has just been doing some research on the case, but then that doesn't explain the purse details. :waitasec:

Ok I am not saying there is anything in this, I just thought it was interesting.

It bothers me the reporter didn't provide a link or further info on the group they were reporting on. It includes x FBI, law enforcement, SAR, etc. too.
I believe there are some people who are "gifted", but very, very few.. and most claims, are, well full of it, imo. The purse factor is interesting, but how many of us change to spring/summer purses..most being in beige, cream, white or light colors for the season? What color of green was he "seeing"? Forest, lime, army, emerald, metallic....? He mentioned an aquarium...which is not too far from BCBS and few bridges. You'll notice, he stated they "have to" work with LE. Nothing like having inside info....we could all benefit from that in trying to find Gail. JMO

 

[carolinagirl56]

Carolina Girl - Thanks for the clarification. Wonder if the holding ponds have been checked?

I don't know. They do not appear to be very deep and are not very big around.

 

[hollyblue]

I tend to agree...Removing a factory installed GPS would leave a gaping hole in the dash.

I envision the purchased GPS to be a Tom Tom or similar.

The GPS was an option in the 2010 Rubicon.

The interior is consistent with Jeep off-road options such as wash out floor pans with removable plugs and carpet. The Rubicon interior packages offer optional equipment such as a radio with 6.5-inch touch screen, GPS Navigation, 30 GB hard drive (4,250 song capacity), Uconnect™ Phone, Voice Command, SIRIUS Traffic™ and Audio Jack.

http://focusdailynews.com/rubicon-remains-perfect-choice-for-offroad-adventures-p2151-84.htm

Maybe Sleuthy1 can ask AD to to clarify if GP did have this option and purchased another, or if the factory GPS was installed, was it unabled, not activated, etc?? Where are you Sleuthy1?