TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #8

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More quotes from the story today:

"No credit card activity. No calls from her phone."

"Earlier this month, Gail Palmgren's siblings pushed Hamilton County District Attorney Bill Cox to write a letter asking Chattanooga agents with the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to review detectives' work on the case to date."

"Now, the Federal Bureau of Investigation is becoming involved in the case."

The last part, bolded by me, may help to settle another often posted concern.

ETA- Glad to see that the FBI wants to hear what Arlene has to say.
 
So I guess any questioning the FBI may have involving MP, his mom or TH has to be with their attorney at hand? Wish we knew if this was done.
 
So I guess any questioning the FBI may have involving MP, his mom or TH has to be with their attorney at hand? Wish we knew if this was done.

Maybe we'll see some changes and more action since the FBI seems to be officially involved now. No matter when they were asked or when they offered, they are on it now, of that we can surely agree. I am very pleased to see that they are listening to what Arlene has to say and hopefully they will be talking to the others soon, too. Maybe they will find the one little piece of evidence they need that the Sheriff mentioned not having. :twocents:
 
This is the Sheriff's quote I wanted. Thank you so much, Melodie!

More from the article:

"There's nothing at this point to indicate that anything nefarious has occurred," Hammond told Channel 3.

Hammond: "From a mother's standpoint, they would say, 'I could tell you one thing, if she loved her children, she's dead, cause she'd be trying to get to 'em,' but we have to deal with the reality and we just don't know what that is right now."

Now, the Federal Bureau of Investigation is becoming involved in the case. Special Agents spent two hours Monday morning interviewing Gail Palmgren's friend, Arlene Durham.

I have so much more hope now that Gail is alive. I got a very positive vibe from the Sheriff. I would be so thrilled if she could be found (if she wants to be) or comes forward, and re-establishes a relationship with the kids so they can get what they need from their mom. And hopefully Gail would be able to establish a life for herself that is more satisfying and fulfilling to her.

It is interesting BeanE-I viewed this the exact same way that you did.

It is never too late to come home and nothing that has happened can't be undone. I hope she is OK. I hope she is within reach.
 
I would think that the only ones who know when, where and if the FBI questioned the Palmgren's et al would be LE.
 
I have another question.

There are several navigation buoys in between the 27 route and the Cash Canyon route (at the conjuntion of waterways.)

Does anyone know if they were operational between the 28th and the 3rd? (By operational, I mean stationary.)

TIA.

ETA: Nevermind, answered my own question!
http://www.tva.gov/river/navigation_aids.pdf

I hate to bump my own question (again!) but I actually didn't answer my own question, lol- because I have several more!
I have the access points marked all along the 27 route and the Cash Canyon route. They are staggered back and forth bank to bank (as is normal, especially for high volume waterways) but now I am wondering exactly which ones flooded during each storm system; and which navigational aids were non-functional during the time period we are talking about. :waitasec:
 
"There's nothing at this point to indicate that anything nefarious has occurred," Hammond told Channel 3.


That's a very strong statement for LE to make. And it is such a blessed relief to me.

I wonder if that would include suicide? I hope so.

I wish LE would do some aerial searches and ground searches around the mountain to reduce the likelihood of an accident.

If they did, I think I could then, based on LE's statement above, and if nothing changed in that by the time the searches were done, move runaway to my #1 theory.

I'm just feeling very, very hopeful tonight that Gail is alive.
 
I don't know. I didn't read the sheriff's statement the same way as some here did. I just think it basically is saying they don't have a clue what happened to Gail. It does seem to suggest that maybe he personally is wondering if she just ran off somewhere. If that was his attitude from the beginning, and Arlene knew what she did, I can see why she would have felt frustrated.

I'm going to have to go back and find the other cases where LE suspected foul play because a significant amount of time had gone by and the person had not been seen or made contact with anyone, had not accessed their bank accounts or used their phone, etc. Ironically, these aren't even always cases where the day before the person goes missing they are given the number of a "safe place to stay." Ironically, these aren't always cases where the last phone calls a person is making are saying "I'm scared. I'm scared." Ironically, these aren't always cases where everybody and their mother is hiding behind criminal defense attorneys and not speaking with LE.

I think it's a call at the discretion of the law enforcement agency who is the lead on the case. So, no, I have no ray of sunshine after reading this article.
Yesterday I could hope that LE was close to cracking this case. But today, it seems we are much further away from finding out what happened to Gail then I had hoped.
 
I don't know. I didn't read the sheriff's statement the same way as some here did. I just think it basically is saying they don't have a clue what happened to Gail. It does seem to suggest that maybe he personally is wondering if she just ran off somewhere. If that was his attitude from the beginning, and Arlene knew what she did, I can see why she would have felt frustrated.

I'm going to have to go back and find the other cases where LE suspected foul play because a significant amount of time had gone by and the person had not been seen or made contact with anyone, had not accessed their bank accounts or used their phone, etc. Ironically, these aren't even always cases where the day before the person goes missing they are given the number of a "safe place to stay." Ironically, these aren't always cases where the last phone calls a person is making are saying "I'm scared. I'm scared." Ironically, these aren't always cases where everybody and their mother is hiding behind criminal defense attorneys and not speaking with LE.

I think it's a call at the discretion of the law enforcement agency who is the lead on the case. So, no, I have no ray of sunshine after reading this article.
Yesterday I could hope that LE was close to cracking this case. But today, it seems we are much further away from finding out what happened to Gail then I had hoped.

I agree with you completely. I am not convinced that they have nothing. I believe that LE must tread very carefully because of the lawyers. They're not going to show their hand yet. :twocents:
 
Wonder if this is possibly part of the problem? Ohio has a section in its revised code specifically geared towards missing persons: what defines a missing person and what defines a suspicion of foul play, etc. Tennessee has no such section in their code. There is a section on procedures involving missing children, and a section added last year that creates a special kind of alert for seniors, developmentally disabled persons, and those with dementia. Gail seems to fall in between the cracks of Tennesee law....there is no consistent, codified, statewide policy from what I can tell regarding how to handle a missing adult. So it would seem that when to call a disappearance suspicious would be a local call and obviously therefore more subjective.
 
After following Laura Ackerson's case this week, it just feels so familiar to Gail's case. In the beginning, LE also said that there was no sign of foul play. However, they treated it like an investigation from the get-go. I have a great deal of respect for how the NC LE treated Laura's case. They heard that a woman was missing; and they immediately investigated her disappearance.

In Gail's case, I am very frustrated with how long LE took to even start to investigate an obvious problem in Gail's life - MP. I am very Pro-LE; and I have many friends that are LE. I have a great deal of respect for them and I appreciate their service. However - I do know that in some of these cases; it appears to me that LE in difference cities/states/counties handle cases much differently. And - I have found that some are definitely more effective. Kudos to NC for the way that they handled and solved Laura's case so quickly.

I side with a few here- I am still not convinced that Gail is coming home. I am still not convinced that MP didn't do something horrible to her. Prayers for Gail!
 
I'm going to have to go back and find the other cases where LE suspected foul play because a significant amount of time had gone by and the person had not been seen or made contact with anyone, had not accessed their bank accounts or used their phone, etc. Ironically, these aren't even always cases where the day before the person goes missing they are given the number of a "safe place to stay." Ironically, these aren't always cases where the last phone calls a person is making are saying "I'm scared. I'm scared." Ironically, these aren't always cases where everybody and their mother is hiding behind criminal defense attorneys and not speaking with LE.

I snipped to this part because I think what you said bears repeating.

The cases I'm familiar with lately all seem to have one thing different from Gail's case: They were adults who didn't have their car. Not having the car made everyone, even LE, think that this was a serious situation that needed to be addressed immediately. My impression is that people think Gail and the Jeep missing means Gail drove off deliberately and is still in/with that Jeep, hiding out somewhere.

To believe she's just hiding out you'd have to believe that:

1. She has a stash of hidden money somewhere; the money she gave others to hold has not been touched, nor have her accounts. She'd have to use cash for everything.

2. She wouldn't be able to get a job under her real name without alerting people to her whereabouts.

3. She has a new driver's license and/or passport, perhaps with a false identity. Or she's avoiding every single situation where she might need a photo ID.

4. She'd have to rely on disposable cell phones.

5. She probably has a new vehicle and was somehow able to dispose of the Jeep without having the VIN reported by Carfax or any similar agency.

6. She wouldn't contact her kids or her family despite past history of staying in contact with them.

7. Related to #4, she would either have no access to news, or she would be able to ignore what she saw on the news. If she did see the news, she would have seen Arlene, Diane, Susie, etc. all worried about her. She would hear reports that her family cannot talk to the kids without Matt or his representative there, know that K&D filed papers in court, see that people online (primarily the newspaper forums) are saying she's a bad mother for abandoning her kids.

8. She has some way to get her needed prescription meds without drawing attention to herself. If she needed medical help for anything, even something minor, she wouldn't be able to use her insurance or her real name without alerting people to her whereabouts.

And on and on and on. There's a lot of stuff you have to do to disappear completely. It's a lot of work, a lot of preparation, and possibly even black market or grey market activities (fake IDs, under the table jobs, etc). In my opinion, we do not have one scintilla of evidence that Gail engaged in any of that. Not a single speck to indicate she's off in hiding.

ETA: Also, in my opinion, as yet we have not heard a motive for Gail to go into hiding to this extent. Arlene said Gail was scared and in hiding, but her fear alone would not account for her being gone this long. She would have contacted a doctor, LE, lawyer, shelter, etc. by now if it was just fear that caused her to leave.
 
Wonder if this is possibly part of the problem? Ohio has a section in its revised code specifically geared towards missing persons: what defines a missing person and what defines a suspicion of foul play, etc. Tennessee has no such section in their code. There is a section on procedures involving missing children, and a section added last year that creates a special kind of alert for seniors, developmentally disabled persons, and those with dementia. Gail seems to fall in between the cracks of Tennesee law....there is no consistent, codified, statewide policy from what I can tell regarding how to handle a missing adult. So it would seem that when to call a disappearance suspicious would be a local call and obviously therefore more subjective.

Gail is classified as an endangered missing adult. I think this applies in TN:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Bill/SB2940.pdf

For things like definitions of suspicion of foul play, sometimes you have to go court cases and supreme court rulings. You might find something looking up probable cause. I found this, for example:

State v. Henning, 975 S.W.2d 290, 294 (Tenn. 1998) (footnote and citations omitted). “A showing
of probable cause requires, generally, reasonable grounds for suspicion, supported by circumstances
indicative of an illegal act.” State v. Stevens, 989 S.W.2d 290, 293 (Tenn. 1999)


From there, you can look up cases and rulings where 'reasonable grounds for suspicion' and 'indicative of an illegal act' were issues.

AZlawyer could, I'm sure, tell you better than I could more specifically what to search for to get to the info faster.
 
I agree with Arlene..who hides behind a criminal defense attorney if you don't have anything to hide? As a cop, I was always told to go by my gut feelings and in this case my gut tells me he's dirty and I have felt that way from day one. My gut tells me he probably had a throw away phone and called Gail and told her to meet him someplace, rather than have it out in front of the kids and when she got to her point of destination someone else was waiting for her rather than him. He just seems like the type who would play her to serve his purpose. Example: Its ok to leave the kids for a few minutes and meet me here so we can figure out how to tell the kids, but when she doesn't come home again he tells everybody she left the kids alone unsupervised. I can just see it.
 
I completely disagree. I think that rather than the children being used to protect Matt, Matt has endured unbelieveable bashing and hatred to protect his children.

Guess it's just a matter of opinion and we may have to agree to disagree!

But Matt could have avoided that completely. That's what bothers me. I would expect him to be falling all over himself to make sure that LE is not suspicious of him. By living in a shroud of secrecy,by way of lawyers, he makes himself a target and the by product of that trickles down to the kids. if for no other reason, open up for the kids so any thought of involvement can be put to rest.

His behavior before the fact wasn't honorable, so we know he is capable of being deceptive.

If gail truly just drove away, then he needs to deal directly with LE on that truth and he will be fine. he should have enough information, alibis and hard cell and/or computer data that will clear him completely. If he has already shared all that with LE, then good on him. But I don't think he has.

The clean get cleaner and the dirty get dirtier.
 
Thank you, carolinagirl56!
If you have a GPS on your vehicle, or a portable GPS- would you mind clocking the time and distance?

Thank you so much in advance. Be safe!

Sorry, Oriah, I didn't read this post before I left. I counted 16 homes on Sunset Drive. Some were in a natural setting with a lot of trees and others had lawns. It curves around into Balmoral and then Balmoral continues on the side of the mountain. I will be happy to clock the time for you tomorrow if you want me to do so.
 
Gail is classified as an endangered missing adult. I think this applies in TN:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Bill/SB2940.pdf

For things like definitions of suspicion of foul play, sometimes you have to go court cases and supreme court rulings. You might find something looking up probable cause. I found this, for example:

State v. Henning, 975 S.W.2d 290, 294 (Tenn. 1998) (footnote and citations omitted). “A showing
of probable cause requires, generally, reasonable grounds for suspicion, supported by circumstances
indicative of an illegal act.” State v. Stevens, 989 S.W.2d 290, 293 (Tenn. 1999)


From there, you can look up cases and rulings where 'reasonable grounds for suspicion' and 'indicative of an illegal act' were issues.

AZlawyer could, I'm sure, tell you better than I could more specifically what to search for to get to the info faster.

Yes, your link to the above law is the one I indicated was passed last year in reference to the elderly and disabled individuals. There is a separate section of code that spells out procedures with regards to child abduction. There is not a section in code that covers missing adults like Gail.

State v. Stevens seems applicable, but also broad and subjective. Given what we know, I think it's possible that in another jurisdiction in the same state, under Stevens, a search warrant might have been obtained given the recent interactions with LE and Gail's last known comments to her sister, and the time she has been missing with no bank or cell activity, etc.
 
I find it so hard to feel sorry for a man who has shown no concern for his wife, the mother of his children, who is missing. <modsnip> wants everybody to believe this man is concerned about his children and their wellbeing, when I beg to differ. He wasn't too concerned about his children when he was out gallivanting around the country with all his gal pals. Where was he then? MP has only shown that he was concerned about himself. Gail had lost her job but he didn't think nothing about spending thousands of dollars which rightfully she had earned. Now he's without a job so I wonder if he wished he hadn't spent that money since he might just need it to support his children. I honestly don't think he wants LE or anyone talking to his kids because of what they just might say. Once a cheater always a cheater in my books. A skunk doesn't change his stripes.
 
Sorry, Oriah, I didn't read this post before I left. I counted 16 homes on Sunset Drive. Some were in a natural setting with a lot of trees and others had lawns. It curves around into Balmoral and then Balmoral continues on the side of the mountain. I will be happy to clock the time for you tomorrow if you want me to do so.

Thank you carolinagirl!

When heading west on Balmoral, (after you've looped around Sunset- headed back toward 127) is there another, much smaller loop on the west side of 127?
 
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