TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #8

[Pearl*]

I didn't realize LE had told the volunteers not to search. Maybe because they're not trained and the terrain in the SM area is too dangerous?

I don't know LE's reasons for a lot of decisions, but the terrain up here is DEFINITELY too dangerous for amateurs. Driving the roads and searching defined trails is one thing; but trailblazing remote areas is quite another.

 

[Pearl*]

It's a curious thing. Susie Button saw Gail in the Jeep, and should have seen or had an impression of the top she was wearing - was it light or dark? did it have sleeves or no? But... nothing.

I don't know Susie Button, but I will have to say that I think awareness of these things is very different between individual people. Some people simply fail to pay attention and it doesn't register in their memory banks automatically. I'm one of them.

Some days, for instance, if I'm trying to spot my child in a group of people, I suddenly realize I have NO IDEA what color shirt I'm looking for. And it's not that I didn't see the child when she left the house. It's just my personality, I guess. I doubt she could say most days what I was wearing either.

 

[BeanE]

Original recap of calls and Susie sighting is here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6938041&postcount=1040"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7[/ame]


I revised my recap based on this article:

<snip> Nichols says she thinks back to the last conversation she had with Gail.

<snip> She told Eyewitness News hours before her sister was last seen, Gail begged her to call police while leaving the family's Alabama lake house. She wanted police at her Signal Mountain home when she arrived.

<snip> her sister never said why she wanted her to call police.

<snip> Police called Gail at her sister's request, but details of that conversation haven't been released, not even to Nichols.

<snip> "If she doesn't want to go home I understand," said Nichols,

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14987811


All New and Improved Recap of April 30 calls and Susie Sighting!
Now With 11.3% More Stain Fighting Power!

Label Warning: This is my own personal recap, any part of which may be double dog WRONG!

- Unknown day/time, Fri Apr 29 or Sat Apr 30. Per his sworn affidavit, Matt calls Gail. Matt proposes they meet back at the SM house, asking Gail to bring the kids back to SM because he hasn't seen them since Friday. (Read by Arlene from document in 2nd Jammer interview)

- My personal speculation! Before talking with Diane, Gail called LE and asked them to meet her at SM house. They said no. This is the only reason I can think of why Gail would call Diane and ask her to call LE.

- 6:30 Gail and Diane talk. Unknown if Gail had talked with Matt at this point. Gail says she's going back to SM. Begs Diane to call LE and ask them to meet her at the SM house. Gail, per Arlene, begs and begs and begs and begs (I'm pretty sure it was 4 begs in 2nd Jammer interview that Arlene said).

- Before leaving lake house or during drive to SM. Diane calls SMPD and asks them to call Gail. Unknown if she also asked them to meet Gail back at SM house.

- Before leaving lake house or during drive to SM. SMPD calls Gail. Contents of this phone call have never been revealed, even to Diane, but per Clive on BGHN, Gail tells SMPD she's okay. Unknown where he got that info. Unknown if Gail asked SMPD to meet her back at SM house.

* Unknown if anyone conveyed to LE that Gail wanted them to meet her back at SM house.

- 12:00 Per Matt, Gail arrives at SM house.

- Time unknown. Gail (or possibly someone else) calls Matt and says kids are at the house and Gail is leaving. Per LE, the kids are the last persons to see Gail. LE (Tizzio via ADPS) reports time last seen simply as "afternoon".

- Approx 12:15, and prior to Susie's reported sighting. Gail calls Diane and says she's scared. Doesn't say what she's scared of except Diane makes out that she thinks she's being followed. Unknown if Diane calls LE again. This is the last reported phone contact with Gail.

- Approx 12:15. Susie sees Gail driving away. Susie runs up hill to say hi. Gail doesn't acknowledge Susie. Susie hasn't reported seeing anyone following Gail. This sighting has not been confirmed by LE.

- Approx 12:25. Matt arrives home after running errands with his mother for an unknown period of time.

===================================

Input, corrections, additions, opinions, :fish:, :cupcake:, :beagle:, and opcorn: welcome! Holler if ya want the link for anything!

 

[Cazzie]

BBM Search parties? I wish there had been some. In the Holly Bobo case, they had thousands of volunteers out combing the woods for weeks. In Gail's case they had 1, maybe 2 days in the first few weeks where about 12 or so volunteers (organized by themselves) on ATVs, car and foot searched on a Saturday or Sunday for a few hours on Signal Mt. That's it. LE sent divers in to check Suck Creek one day. To my knowledge, LE has not arranged any volunteer searches at all. To add insult to injury, some of the volunteers wanted to do more searches and were asked not to. If someone knows of other searches that have been done, please correct me.

Oh, gee!

You're reminding me...I used to know that the searches were primarily volunteer-driven and thus wouldn't have had any guidance or inside info from LE. It get complicated when trying to follow multiple cases...easy to forget or confuse something.

You're also reminding me that I posted a while back that perhaps/allegedly/etc. MP has connections within LE or has power or standing in the community such that perhaps he has a Teflon coating, IYKWIM. NOT a slur on LE, although there have been instances of corrupted LE.

I maintain a positive attitude that LE is working diligently on Gail's case and has to keep certain info "on the down low".

My heart just breaks when thinking that Gail is missing her children, other family and friends, and likewise, they are all missing her too!

:heartbeat:

 

[hollyblue]

Some thoughts:

Further, the theory about Gail being abducted from her SM home upon returning from AL is possible, but how did it happen?

It has been stated on here that the SM home had a security system. Did that include surveillance cameras? If so, did LE look at any taped surveillance video? Well….since LE initially stated there was no probable cause that a crime had been committed (no evidence of foul play), it follows that LE did not remove and inspect cameras (if they existed, of course.) Hmmmm….if there were in-fact cameras, who do you suppose did remove them and go through the recorded footage?! (A bit of sarcasm inserted….but remember what happened to the computers?!) imo

Now, since there was a security system, at the very least, if someone tried to enter the home (perhaps including the garage or even the property perimeter depending on the complexity of the alarm system) why wasn’t the alarm system triggered and didn't alert authorities/neighbors? Was it disconnected? Turned-off? If so, why?! Was this common practice by members of the household? If not, was it deliberately turned-off on 4/30?

Was Gail a creature of habit around home? Did she follow set routines such as parking her Jeep in a particular place upon arrival from the Lake Home? If so, was that in the garage, driveway, or? Did the children usually go into the home right away and get involved with their particular interests or did they help Mom with unloading the Jeep, household chores, etc.? Could someone have observed their routines from a safe distance for awhile? And, what about the dogs…were there two of them or more? Were they kept in an outdoor kennel, dog run or inside? Did they roam the property freely or not? And even if they were usually friendly dogs, they would probably have barked at something or someone unexpectedly showing up in their territory. Why wouldn’t the children hear their dogs barking and check on Gail or even maybe hear a disturbance going on outside the house with their Mother and someone else, perhaps even shouting or screaming which should raise the ‘let’s go see what’s going on’ level! *(Certainly not implying that the children are at fault in any way, shape or form, would never do that, for the record!) Just trying to figure out how someone could commandeer Gail at the SM home?! Maybe they were hiding inside the home and waited until she was alone, but, again, how did someone access the home without triggering the alarm system unless…

If Gail was abducted from the SM home, maybe the abductor/s threatened Gail’s children or held a gun or knife to Gail. Surveillance cameras, unless disconnected, could certainly be of use, here. And, of course, interviews of the children by LE.

I snipped for space but fully agree with everything you had stated.

This is my theory...so far with the little we know, but the surveillance systems is a good point. I believe it was fbx who said ADT was at the house a few days after GP's disappearance. Why? What was being done? Was it broken, damaged, being installed? Did they have one prior...like the house in AL---and it's now gone too? D & H? Vanished? AD stated that MP was not mechanically inclined, but that could be MP just not wanting to do it.

The dogs were labs, very docile and might not have even barked. If so it was prolly a "Hey pay attention to me" kind of bark vs a bark of warning. imo. They just got home too, so prolly wanting to frolick outside. To my knowledge, they had electronic collars and were allowed to roam the property. (See video of them in driveway)

My thoughts are someone was waiting hidden inside the garage, mudroom, etc or either outside the perimeter of the house---in the woods and surprised GP or slipped into the Jeep-- if she did go into house --forcing her to leave/drive. (I'm not at this time buying CC's story--deflection) I picture the children running to their rooms and getting back to some normalcy after all they had been through the previous day. It was around lunch time, so GP may have stopped to pick something up and the kids were in the kitchen or dining room. And yes, I have even thought that MP could have given someone access to house/garage. Drop off on Timesville road to access the property from the rear or he could have driven someone there earlier. I don't know what MP did/said, but whatever it was----GP fully believed he was capable of doing it. She was beyond just scared.

The trip to MN/PA is the catalyst, imo. Either MP had plans in the mist or the one call between them was GP telling MP that she had the goods (TH and the bogus trip) on him....and hinted of letting BCBS know. Ask him about PA when he said the conference was in MN. The argument on the 29th. At the moment, I'm going with MP had plans because he did return early. What man leaves his mistress early to return to the "hell house"? He could have spent the evening downtown Chatt enjoying himself and returned after his flight was due in. ??
JMO

 

[hollyblue]

Hoping and praying The FBI will apply some real pressure to Mr. MP..JMHO

Yep, like "Turn over the puters BUCKO". Hopefully it's a different ballgame now. D & H will be busy answering questions or be a bit more lenient in allowing MP to. imo

 

[Melodie]

I snipped for space but fully agree with everything you had stated.

This is my theory...so far with the little we know, but the surveillance systems is a good point. I believe it was fbx who said ADT was at the house a few days after GP's disappearance. Why? What was being done? Was it broken, damaged, being installed? Did they have one prior...like the house in AL---and it's now gone too? D & H? Vanished? AD stated that MP was not mechanically inclined, but that could be MP just not wanting to do it.

The dogs were labs, very docile and might not have even barked. If so it was prolly a "Hey pay attention to me" kind of bark vs a bark of warning. imo. They just got home too, so prolly wanting to frolick outside. To my knowledge, they had electronic collars and were allowed to roam the property. (See video of them in driveway)

My thoughts are someone was waiting hidden inside the garage, mudroom, etc or either outside the perimeter of the house---in the woods and surprised GP or slipped into the Jeep-- if she did go into house --forcing her to leave/drive. (I'm not at this time buying CC's story--deflection) I picture the children running to their rooms and getting back to some normalcy after all they had been through the previous day. It was around lunch time, so GP may have stopped to pick something up and the kids were in the kitchen or dining room. And yes, I have even thought that MP could have given someone access to house/garage. Drop off on Timesville road to access the property from the rear or he could have driven someone there earlier. I don't know what MP did/said, but whatever it was----GP fully believed he was capable of doing it. She was beyond just scared.

The trip to MN/PA is the catalyst, imo. Either MP had plans in the mist or the one call between them was GP telling MP that she had the goods (TH and the bogus trip) on him....and hinted of letting BCBS know. Ask him about PA when he said the conference was in MN. The argument on the 29th. At the moment, I'm going with MP had plans because he did return early. What man leaves his mistress early to return to the "hell house"? He could have spent the evening downtown Chatt enjoying himself and returned after his flight was due in. ??
JMO

BBM
:twocents: I agree. To me, the activities around that conference are very important. Something to me is not right with that. And I had not thought about it until reading your post, but yeah, why come back early when he was "cleared" to be gone for longer? In my opinion, there was an important reason behind that. As far as the dogs, I agree with you that if docile, they would not have barked or alerted anyone if they were not right there. However, someone mentioned on the previous thread that there was a theory that Gail might have been overtaken while in the vehicle with the children and dogs. I don't believe that. I don't believe 2 big labs would allow that. Not with the children and Gail in the car. Any signs of fear from them and those dogs would have protected. If the dogs are still around and fine, I don't believe Gail was abducted by a stranger while they were all in the vehicle. JMO

 

[Oriah]

Just noting it's been 2 1/2 weeks since LE searched Matt's mom's apartment. That was on July 6. There are still 2 of the 5 searches to go, 2 Alabama properties.

Search agreement signed June 8

Search one - first two of five properties - Palmgren residence and Red Bank storage shed - June 23 - 15 days from agreement signing

Search two - third of five properties - Matt's mom's apartment - July 6 - 13 days from Search one

It's now been 17 days since the last search on July 6

Links and more info:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

Truthfully, I am still a bit perplexed about the 'search' situation.

What is being searched for?

 

[BeanE]

Truthfully, I am still a bit perplexed about the 'search' situation.

What is being searched for?

hmmm... stuff? :floorlaugh:

Seriously, I dunno, Oriah. I'd love to see the whole consent agreement. Lemme poke around and see what I can find.

ETA: This article says "evidence leading to Gail". I think that's just the reporter's words. Has this additional info, which really doesn't tell us anything. I'm sticking with "stuff".

CONSENT ORDER

The consent order to search the Palmgrens&#8217; Signal Mountain home included these parameters:

Mike Mathis, a former Chattanooga Police Department investigator, who has been hired by Palmgren, must be present during the searches.
Any documents that investigators wish to copy must be copied through Palmgren and his attorneys.
Testing of trace evidence is allowed as long as it does not damage the property.
Detectives must get permission to further test items from the house from Palmgren&#8217;s attorney and the Hamilton County District Attorney&#8217;s Office.
If investigators damage the property, the sheriff&#8217;s office must replace the property.
Source: Consent Order

SEARCH LOCATIONS
The consent order lists five locations for the search:
The Palmgren family residence at 40 Ridgerock Drive, Signal Mountain
439 Easy St., Wetumpka, Ala.
481 Jordan Lake Road, Titus Ala.
A public storage unit in Red Bank
Matt Palmgren&#8217;s mother&#8217;s residence in Chattanooga

Source: Consent Order

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/22/search-order-matthew-palmgrens-properties-called-u/?print

 

[obody]

Do we know the dogs are docile? I have a lab, and while he is friendly, good with kids and cats, he still barks up a storm whenever someone arrives, and I have little doubt he would go on the offensive if one of his peeps was threatened.

 

[Oriah]

Yet more food for thought....

Yep that's the 'consent order'. But I am still somewhat perplexed (I know, lol... big surprise!) as to how this works regarding a LE based search (??).
Why would a judge need to grant an order for this? Subpoenas I can see, if consent is declined and there is enough evidence to support a search of private property. Blanket consent with LE (without involvment of an attorney) I can also see. And I can also see the value in protecting ones' property by having an attorney present during a search.

But this search situation doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

And what's up with the specificity of copying documents?

I am totally perplexed by this search situation. What the heck does one look for under a controlled-search situation??

hmmm... stuff? :floorlaugh:

Seriously, I dunno, Oriah. I'd love to see the whole consent agreement. Lemme poke around and see what I can find.

ETA: This article says "evidence leading to Gail". I think that's just the reporter's words. Has this additional info, which really doesn't tell us anything. I'm sticking with "stuff".

CONSENT ORDER

The consent order to search the Palmgrens’ Signal Mountain home included these parameters:

Mike Mathis, a former Chattanooga Police Department investigator, who has been hired by Palmgren, must be present during the searches.
Any documents that investigators wish to copy must be copied through Palmgren and his attorneys.
Testing of trace evidence is allowed as long as it does not damage the property.
Detectives must get permission to further test items from the house from Palmgren’s attorney and the Hamilton County District Attorney’s Office.
If investigators damage the property, the sheriff’s office must replace the property.
Source: Consent Order

SEARCH LOCATIONS
The consent order lists five locations for the search:
The Palmgren family residence at 40 Ridgerock Drive, Signal Mountain
439 Easy St., Wetumpka, Ala.
481 Jordan Lake Road, Titus Ala.
A public storage unit in Red Bank
Matt Palmgren’s mother’s residence in Chattanooga

Source: Consent Order

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/22/search-order-matthew-palmgrens-properties-called-u/?print

 

[believe09]

Can someone please clarify something that has been eating away at me about Gail's disappearance?

AFIK, we do NOT have a description of what Gail was wearing when last seen (by MP, their children, even AD (!)).

Not slamming LE, but how in the he** does LE proceed in a MP investigation and expect the public to assist, without asking for and RELEASING THIS INFO TO THE PUBLIC?

Allegedly MP and the children have not given statements and have not been interviewed by LE...

I would think that a MP's vehicle (at least that info is out there) and what they were wearing when last seen would be standard info that LE would pursue (if not readily given by those who last saw the MP).

BBM-what if they were not given the information? Clothing is MP 101. I think the description was never provided. JMO.

 

[BeanE]

Yet more food for thought....

Yep that's the 'consent order'. But I am still somewhat perplexed (I know, lol... big surprise!) as to how this works regarding a LE based search (??).
Why would a judge need to grant an order for this? Subpoenas I can see, if consent is declined and there is enough evidence to support a search of private property. Blanket consent with LE (without involvment of an attorney) I can also see. And I can also see the value in protecting ones' property by having an attorney present during a search.

But this search situation doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

And what's up with the specificity of copying documents?

I am totally perplexed by this search situation. What the heck does one look for under a controlled-search situation??

I don't think a judge granted an order in relation to this. My understanding is that this is simply a search consent agreement that was drawn up between Matt's attorneys and the DA. An agreement for a consensual search.

The only thing I can think of for the document copying is that it either puts the copying expenses back on Matt's tab, or, more likely, that it ensures that whatever LE wants copies of, the attorneys will have a record of each page copied. They could then verify, e.g., that complete documents were copied to ensure context etc.

 

[believe09]

The FB thread is open, fwiw.

 

[hollyblue]

Do your think this is correct info: MP was last to talk to GP or just another error? The letter had her missing (last seen) as of the 29th..

http://wrcb.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/news/GovLetter.pdf

In the letter, Cox specifies that Palmgren last spoke with her husband, Matthew Palmgren, that day and he writes that, since then, &#8220;no reported communication with her has existed.&#8221;

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/14/da-asks-haslam-palmgren-reward/

 

[BeanE]

Do your think this is correct info: MP was last to talk to GP or just another error? The letter had her missing (last seen) as of the 29th..

http://wrcb.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/news/GovLetter.pdf

In the letter, Cox specifies that Palmgren last spoke with her husband, Matthew Palmgren, that day and he writes that, since then, “no reported communication with her has existed.”

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/14/da-asks-haslam-palmgren-reward/

I dunno. I read that as 'Gail talked to Matt for the last time on Apr 30' versus 'the last person Gail talked to was Matt'.

Ordinarily LE says 'the last person so-and-so spoke to' or 'the last person to see so-and-so was' or 'X was the last person to see so-and-so'. It's very precise and clear.

It sure would help to have some clarification from LE.

 

[rolltideroll]

I find it odd that a husband who is possibly headed into a divorce and a custody battle would not JUMP at the opportunity to call the police when he came home to find his kids left there unattended.

 

[Cazzie]

BBM-what if they were not given the information? Clothing is MP 101. I think the description was never provided. JMO.

Yes, thus my frustration.

WHY wasn't it given? Wasn't it asked? What was the reason for a non-answer? (the kids probably know, but you're not allowed to question them?)

Thus my further frustration that apparently MP hasn't given a statement and the children have not been allowed to be interviewed by LE.

I would think that when anyone makes a missing person report, certain crucial questions are asked, and I would have expected that he would have been asked "what was she wearing?".

Since he apparently (or supposedly) didn't get to the house until Gail had already left, he wouldn't know what she was wearing. BUT THE KIDS PROBABLY DO...

 

[believe09]

Yup-if the kids were in the car with Gail, and Gail transported them to the house, they probably have an idea of what she was wearing. I am still waiting to hear if they were carrying luggage. Did they pack bags on 4/29 and did they return with them? IE Did Gail have access to more clothing than whatever was on her back, and BTW what was on her back? Color of her purse, shoes etc...

 

[Cazzie]

My belief is that Gail had much reason to be "paranoid", and she was reaching out for help to several people. But she "couldn't sit still". Plus for all we know, without witnesses or access to her cell phone activity, she could have been calling and receiving calls that necessitated revising her plan(s).

OMGosh, I feel like I am "channelling" her state of mind, which, btw, I think was quite sane and rational. Can you imagine...with your children in tow (and yes, your dogs), feeling like you are being hunted or stalked, or at the very minimum, having a hinky feeling that something bad is about to happen soon?