TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #9

[ThoughtFox]

I agree with you on most of your points and viewpoints, ThoughtFox.

On not reporting Gail missing, I disagree though, because nobody else reported her missing either for those 2 days, and personally, I can't hold one person - even a reprehensible person - responsible for something I don't hold everyone else responsible for too.

MP is Gail's next of kin, and he is still married to her. Therefore, he is more culpable than anyone else, if you are referring to her siblings who live out of state and far away.

It was his responsibility to report that she was missing from "their" home, since that is where she was last seen. If he was so worried about his children, you would think he would want to find their mother, but he waited 48 hours which police said was highly unusual.

I also disagree that MP was fired because he was having an affair. From what's been reported, my understanding is that he was fired for misuse of company equipment and funds. That's theft. Corporate theft. No different from any other kind of theft, except that you usually don't see handcuffs being applied. I've dealt with it, had to put together the evidence and documentation for it. It's an ugly thing. People don't get as upset about it, it seems, as other types of theft, because they don't see it as personal, as hurting people - they see it as hurting a company, an entity. But it does hurt people. It hurts everyone else working for that company in so many ways - for example, there's less money to reward people who are honest and dedicated and responsible and doing a good job, and that's very personal.

It wasn't about corporate theft at all. He was let go because he was having an affair with a co-worker on company time, and he lied about where he was on more than one occasion, I'm sure. He misused a company car to go to a conference, I presume, and traded company emails about his affair.

It wasn't just what he did, but with whom.

And the reason we know this was the cause of MP's termination is that she was terminated also at the same exact time.

And we have these links (in the archive, I believe - see my signature):

June , 2011: Chattanoogan

The husband of a missing Signal Mountain woman has been fired by BlueCross BlueShield from a high-ranking position.
Attorney Bryan Hoss confirmed that Matthew C. Palmgren, Pharm D., received a termination letter on Monday afternoon.
He had earlier been placed on administrative leave with pay.

(snip)

Sources said about a week prior to the disappearance of Gail Palmgren that Matt Palmgren flew to Pennsylvania to attend an insurance conference.
Sources said he left the conference without attending any of the sessions and joined a female BlueCross employee at another location, then they drove back to Chattanooga together after she allegedly bought a car there.


June, 8th, 2011: Times Free Press

Sources also said that Palmgren’s co-worker, TH, manager of government product development for BlueCross, was let go for similar reasons. Helton’s divorce was finalized in February, and she has a new home in Batesville, Miss., sources said....
BlueCross also cited misuse of company equipment and inappropriate email use for letting the employees go, sources said.

I'm truly surprised that this is even in question at this point, since it has come up so many times. This is one of the facts of the case, in my opinion, and even though MP's attorney chose to spin the termination as connected somehow to Gail's disappearance, the affair was going on before she disappeared and everyone knows that, including BC/BS and all of the various LEs involved in the case.

Oh, and Gail's friends who received various things such as hotel receipts regarding the affair as well.
From the Times-Free Press article above:

Before Gail Palmgren disappeared, she gave several hotel invoices to a friend. They show that Matthew Palmgren paid cash for hotel rooms locally at the Double Tree and Hampton Inn. Another hotel invoice places Matthew Palmgren at a hotel in Batesville, Miss., and shows that he also paid cash there.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I agree that the affair was the catalyst for the wrongful actions that led to his termination.

I'm just not sure though, that absent the affair, Matt would not have still engaged in corporate theft, or that he did not engage in corporate theft prior to the affair.

People who think it's okay to take from companies, in my experience, think it's okay and do it no matter what else is going on in their lives. Again, I'm just basing that on my experiences in terminating employees for incidents of this kind.

Whether he thought it was "okay" or not, he was terminated for having an affair on company time. So there is no scenario "absent the affair" because it is a fact of this case and no one is denying it, not his attorney, not TH's attorney, no one.

If he hadn't had an affair for all we know Gail would still be here. So it's hard to get my mind around that idea, or why we need to go there.

There was no "theft" except the fact that he lied about what he was doing. I don't want to get into a semantic argument about what you mean by theft, but just to be clear, he was cited for misuse of emails and company property (meaning cars, I'm sure).

If you mean that he felt "entitled" due to his position, then yes, you are probably right. I'm sure he thought he deserved a girlfriend at work in addition to his family life at home, and he did everything he could so his employer and his wife wouldn't find out.

 

[Oriah]

VERY respectfully, ThoughtFox- because I very much value your insight- but we do not have confirmation that Gail was seen at their SM residence... we have word of mouth. I'm not trying to be nitpicky at all, but it's my nature to confirm last seen locations, lol. And not saying at all that the neighbor who reported seeing Gail drive away from the SM residence was manufacturing that sighting.
However in the course of trying to locate Gail and/or her Jeep- I very much suspect someone saw Gail and her Jeep after leaving the SM residence.

I have been curious as to why neighbors describing Gail leaving, have not commented on whether or not MP's vehicle- or any other vehicles- were at the Palmgren's residence that day.

It's a pretty tight cul de sac. Kwim?

Thank you again for your media links!

 

[BeanE]

MP is Gail's next of kin, and he is still married to her. Therefore, he is more culpable than anyone else, if you are referring to her siblings who live out of state and far away.

It was his responsibility to report that she was missing from "their" home, since that is where she was last seen. If he was so worried about his children, you would think he would want to find their mother, but he waited 48 hours which police said was highly unusual.



It wasn't about corporate theft at all. He was let go because he was having an affair with a co-worker on company time, and he lied about where he was on more than one occasion, I'm sure. He misused a company car to go to a conference, I presume, and traded company emails about his affair.

It wasn't just what he did, but with whom.

And the reason we know this was the cause of MP's termination is that she was terminated also at the same exact time.

And we have these links (in the archive, I believe - see my signature):

June , 2011: Chattanoogan

The husband of a missing Signal Mountain woman has been fired by BlueCross BlueShield from a high-ranking position.
Attorney Bryan Hoss confirmed that Matthew C. Palmgren, Pharm D., received a termination letter on Monday afternoon.
He had earlier been placed on administrative leave with pay.

(snip)

Sources said about a week prior to the disappearance of Gail Palmgren that Matt Palmgren flew to Pennsylvania to attend an insurance conference.
Sources said he left the conference without attending any of the sessions and joined a female BlueCross employee at another location, then they drove back to Chattanooga together after she allegedly bought a car there.


June, 8th, 2011: Times Free Press

Sources also said that Palmgren’s co-worker, TH, manager of government product development for BlueCross, was let go for similar reasons. Helton’s divorce was finalized in February, and she has a new home in Batesville, Miss., sources said....
BlueCross also cited misuse of company equipment and inappropriate email use for letting the employees go, sources said.

I'm truly surprised that this is even in question at this point, since it has come up so many times. This is one of the facts of the case, in my opinion, and even though MP's attorney chose to spin the termination as connected somehow to Gail's disappearance, the affair was going on before she disappeared and everyone knows that, including BC/BS and all of the various LEs involved in the case.

Oh, and Gail's friends who received various things such as hotel receipts regarding the affair as well.
From the Times-Free Press article above:

Before Gail Palmgren disappeared, she gave several hotel invoices to a friend. They show that Matthew Palmgren paid cash for hotel rooms locally at the Double Tree and Hampton Inn. Another hotel invoice places Matthew Palmgren at a hotel in Batesville, Miss., and shows that he also paid cash there.

Whether he thought it was "okay" or not, he was terminated for having an affair on company time. So there is no scenario "absent the affair" because it is a fact of this case and no one is denying it, not his attorney, not TH's attorney, no one.

If he hadn't had an affair for all we know Gail would still be here. So it's hard to get my mind around that idea, or why we need to go there.

There was no "theft" except the fact that he lied about what he was doing. I don't want to get into a semantic argument about what you mean by theft, but just to be clear, he was cited for misuse of emails and company property (meaning cars, I'm sure).

If you mean that he felt "entitled" due to his position, then yes, you are probably right. I'm sure he thought he deserved a girlfriend at work in addition to his family life at home, and he did everything he could so his employer and his wife wouldn't find out.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions, ThoughtFox, as I am to mine.

 

[Emeralgem]

VERY respectfully, ThoughtFox- because I very much value your insight- but we do not have confirmation that Gail was seen at their SM residence... we have word of mouth. I'm not trying to be nitpicky at all, but it's my nature to confirm last seen locations, lol. And not saying at all that the neighbor who reported seeing Gail drive away from the SM residence was manufacturing that sighting. However in the course of trying to locate Gail and/or her Jeep- I very much suspect someone saw Gail and her Jeep after leaving the SM residence.

I have been curious as to why neighbors describing Gail leaving, have not commented on whether or not MP's vehicle- or any other vehicles- were at the Palmgren's residence that day.

It's a pretty tight cul de sac. Kwim?
Thank you again for your media links!

BBM Dark Red Please, IF you will, run that by me one more time. And please type more slowly this time..LOL I don't know IF I understand what you are trying to say.. I was under the impression SB saw Gail leaving the SM residence and reported that sighting to LE.. How is that word of mouth?

In regards to him arriving home after she left and claiming she had left the children home alone, I have always wondered where he was or who was with him the entire afternoon before he took the children to the ballgame that evening.
Is he the one who claimed he arrived home around 10 minutes after Gail left the residence or was it a neighbor? Didn't SB state Gail left the residence at 12:15?

 

[Granna6]

I have not followed this case at all, but the title containing the words "Signal Mountain" caught my attention. I recently drove up Signal Mountain to visit a relative, and I was struck by its curvy roads with lots of sheer dropoffs. We were extra cautious driving up the mountain because we did not anticipate that type of steep, winding terrain. I'm sure this aspect has been addressed, but has anyone thought that maybe she drove off into an area not visible from the road? I'm sure there are questions about people in her life, etc., but this was my first thought.

 

[BeanE]

Unrelated case, but for reference regarding MFH in Gail's case, as it is a possibility IMO:

Looks like MFH is a lot cheaper and easier than I thought. You just post your request on FB - $1,000.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/127869468.html

 

[Oriah]

BBM Dark Red Please, IF you will, run that by me one more time. And please type more slowly this time..LOL I don't know IF I understand what you are trying to say.. I was under the impression SB saw Gail leaving the SM residence and reported that sighting to LE.. How is that word of mouth?

In regards to him arriving home after she left and claiming she had left the children home alone, I have always wondered where he was or who was with him the entire afternoon before he took the children to the ballgame that evening.
Is he the one who claimed he arrived home around 10 minutes after Gail left the residence or was it a neighbor? Didn't SB state Gail left the residence at 12:15?

Sorry to be unclear, Em.

BBM: That is my understanding as well.
But it seems to me that there are a few holes in the reports of PLS.

That's all I was wondering about. SB reports Gail leaving. Are there any reports of MP coming or going?

 

[Emeralgem]

Unrelated case, but for reference regarding MFH in Gail's case, as it is a possibility IMO:

Looks like MFH is a lot cheaper and easier than I thought. You just post your request on FB - $1,000.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/127869468.html

I read an article several weeks ago and was astonished to discover for just $1,000 someone can hire another person to kill an innocent human being. Someone the surrogate killer doesn't even know....

 

[Emeralgem]

Sorry to be unclear, Em.

BBM: That is my understanding as well.
But it seems to me that there are a few holes in the reports of PLS.
That's all I was wondering about. SB reports Gail leaving. Are there any reports of MP coming or going?

BBM Dark Red What does PLS stand for? I'm having a slow brain day..

 

[Oriah]

BBM Dark Red What does PLS stand for? I'm having a slow brain day..

I'm sorry!
PLS= place last seen.
Different agencies call it different things.

 

[Oriah]

Unrelated case, but for reference regarding MFH in Gail's case, as it is a possibility IMO:

Looks like MFH is a lot cheaper and easier than I thought. You just post your request on FB - $1,000.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/127869468.html

One more reason for me to hate social media.

I feel like creating a FB page that's titled, "got your IP."

 

[Emeralgem]

I'm sorry!
PLS= place last seen.
Different agencies call it different things.

You stated..."But it seems to me that there are a few holes in the reports of PLS".

Is this a big concern of yours in regards to someone claiming they did or didn't see her? Wonder IF LE shares the same concern on the issue.. Do we know? JMHO

 

[Oriah]

You stated..."But it seems to me that there are a few holes in the reports of PLS".

Is this a big concern of yours in regards to someone claiming they did or didn't see her? Wonder IF LE shares the same concern on the issue.. Do we know? JMHO

Hi Em-
Yes it is a big concern for me- but not because of SB's account necessarily. More b/c of the lack of info regarding any other vehicles at the SM residence at the time- and the timing of the reported sightings of Gail's Jeep elsewhere.

Who was seen coming and/or going from the Palmgren's SM residence that day? Why do we only have one account?

Kwim?

 

[Kiln Wood]

VERY respectfully, ThoughtFox- because I very much value your insight- but we do not have confirmation that Gail was seen at their SM residence... we have word of mouth. I'm not trying to be nitpicky at all, but it's my nature to confirm last seen locations, lol. And not saying at all that the neighbor who reported seeing Gail drive away from the SM residence was manufacturing that sighting.
However in the course of trying to locate Gail and/or her Jeep- I very much suspect someone saw Gail and her Jeep after leaving the SM residence.

I have been curious as to why neighbors describing Gail leaving, have not commented on whether or not MP's vehicle- or any other vehicles- were at the Palmgren's residence that day.

It's a pretty tight cul de sac. Kwim?

Thank you again for your media links!

BBM

Oriah, I know you have done a LOT of research. If you haven't been able to "confirm last seen locations," what has your research revealed that you're willing to share with us?

 

[BeanE]

I have been curious as to why neighbors describing Gail leaving, have not commented on whether or not MP's vehicle- or any other vehicles- were at the Palmgren's residence that day.

It's a pretty tight cul de sac. Kwim?

Yes it is a big concern for me- but not because of SB's account necessarily. More b/c of the lack of info regarding any other vehicles at the SM residence at the time- and the timing of the reported sightings of Gail's Jeep elsewhere.

Who was seen coming and/or going from the Palmgren's SM residence that day? Why do we only have one account?

SB reports Gail leaving. Are there any reports of MP coming or going?

Oriah, because there are so few houses on the street, and I believe one may be under construction and unoccupied, most set back from the street, large houses that would probably not lend a view of the street let alone the Palmgren residence, the Palmgren residence being situated where it is back on the cul de sac, etc, personally, I would be surprised if there were many reports of comings and goings, and I'm not surprised only Susie saw only Gail, if indeed she didn't see Matt.

When people purchase homes like those on Ridgerock Dr, one of the biggest reasons is specifically the privacy, the quiet, having little traffic, not having to have traffic in their view.

That's my perspective. What is it about the street that you would expect more reports of comings and goings and cars in the Palmgren drive?

"A" marker = Palmgren residence (if Google maps is cooperating lol)

This might give an idea of what you might typically expect to see from inside a house on Ridgerock Dr:
http://www.trulia.com/property/photos/39312712-14-Ridgerock-Dr-Signal-Mountain-TN-37377#item-0

Another with a few pics from inside the house:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/25-Ridgerock-Dr-Signal-Mountain-TN-37377/41389880_zpid/

Not related, but this has a description of inside the Palmgren residence:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/40-Ridgerock-Dr-Signal-Mountain-TN-37377/70219931_zpid/

 

[glorias]

respectfully snipped for space

MP is Gail's next of kin, and he is still married to her. Therefore, he is more culpable than anyone else, if you are referring to her siblings who live out of state and far away.

It was his responsibility to report that she was missing from "their" home, since that is where she was last seen. If he was so worried about his children, you would think he would want to find their mother, but he waited 48 hours which police said was highly unusual.

That's very true. With friends and relatives out of state, waiting a while to hear from someone makes perfect sense to me. You communicate via phone or internet, and a technical issue could cause lapses in contact.

Seriously, "she disappeared off the face of the earth" was NOT the first thing her friends and relatives thought when she didn't call them back ASAP on the 30th. If Gail wanted LE to meet her at Signal Mountain, did DN know that LE did NOT meet her? She may have assumed they would be there.

Early on I speculated that Gail may have said she was going to stay somewhere away from MP (and/or TH). If she told DN or others about that, then surely everyone was giving her time to call them back when she had a moment.

By the time people got worried, they would start calling around, MP being the first guy they'd talk to. If it took them a few hours to get hold of him, there's more delay. If it's true that MP told people Gail went back to the lake house, that could account for a lot of delay, too.

IMVHO, when you start thinking about it, you can come up with a lot of reasons why it took 46 hours for DN to call LE. To me, 46 hours seems pretty darn early given all the other issues. It also makes me think that DN didn't necessarily believe MP's story, whatever it was.

 

[glorias]

On that Google Maps, which house is SB's, the one across the street and down?

I also live in a cul-de-sac (much smaller homes -- probably 3 of our neighborhood homes could fit into one home on Signal Mountain) and it's true we notice traffic because we're not a through street, but unless I'm outside or near a front window, I don't see or hear much at all. Sometimes I hear a lawn mower, but often I don't even hear that. So I wonder how much Gail's Signal Mountain neighbors would have even noticed?

 

[ThoughtFox]

VERY respectfully, ThoughtFox- because I very much value your insight- but we do not have confirmation that Gail was seen at their SM residence... we have word of mouth. I'm not trying to be nitpicky at all, but it's my nature to confirm last seen locations, lol. And not saying at all that the neighbor who reported seeing Gail drive away from the SM residence was manufacturing that sighting.
However in the course of trying to locate Gail and/or her Jeep- I very much suspect someone saw Gail and her Jeep after leaving the SM residence.

I have been curious as to why neighbors describing Gail leaving, have not commented on whether or not MP's vehicle- or any other vehicles- were at the Palmgren's residence that day.

It's a pretty tight cul de sac. Kwim?

Thank you again for your media links!

I don't really understand what you mean.

Even if SB didn't see Gail (although she thought she did), the kids were the last ones to see Gail, in my opinion.

Are you saying you doubt that Gail dropped off the kids there? We know they were in Alabama the night before and somehow got home to Signal Mountain.

I think I have my facts straight, according to what has been reported from that day and also about the termination from BC/BS.

I'm sorry, but I'm exhausted by this discussion and going around the mulberry bush, so I'm taking a break. I'll be back if there is breaking news.

 

[glorias]

JBean and believe09 both confirmed early on that it was Gail leaving the residence at 12:15. Here's one of the JBean links:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6577734#post6577734"]TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #4 - Page 9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


I can't find the specific believe09 comment I'm thinking of, but I think this comes close:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6518079#post6518079"]TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #3 - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]