TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #25

[Wonless]

I found the family interview with Clint's eyewitness account, Karen's discription of the nieghbor hearing screams, and the Dad saying that LE didn't set up roadblocks...the MOST insightful piece of information in this case...
My take is

1. Clint saw the abduction and didn't do anything...the women who heard the screams set the investigation in motion, between witch time the perp escaped completely with Holly..

2. LE was caught completely off gaurd and did nothing useful in pursuing the perp.

3. The Bobo's blame LE for failing to pursue.

IMO Holly screamed when she was being put into a vehicle..I think it would be natural for her to be to scared to scream until she is faced with the Vehicle..although, I think if she had it might have saved her life.
As per my earlier posts I think the perp was parked on or near the road north/northeast of the house and lead her directly there. I don't think Holly or her abductor stayed in the woods any longer than nessasary.
I think LE completely dropped the ball within the first 24 hours and that this failure was fatal to the investigation.
In my opinion, If the Bobo's have any hope, there best bet would be to release any known evidence to the public in hopes that it would spark someones memory before time erases everything.
I can't understand why it has taken them this long to come forward with there story when it is so evident that LE has completely failed. What possible difference could it make..its the only hope. Tire Track locations, foot prints, approx location of screams..they must at least have an idea where the perp was parked..release that at least so that the public can have a reference point that might spark a memory. I don't get it. This case reminds me of Mayberry were Andy makes Barney carry his one bullet in his front shirt pocket, and then when the bank is getting robbed Barney can't get the bullet out of his pocket. Waiting another three months to say something sure isn't gonna help.

 

[Wonless]

I don't think that Clint's account has ever changed, I think that LE is incompitant and confused from the begining. I think that's the pink elephant in the room that is making everyone want to smell a rat. I think the Bobo's just don't want to be rude and come out and say it...but you can hear Dana Bobo imply it big time in the latest interview.

 

[Frogzilla]

I'm trying BeanE, It's hard to find anything relevant on the internet. This is NOT something that gets broadcast. https://www.sleedogtraining.com/INVESTIGATION_TIPS.php
48. Both government and non government entities use what is called agents of disinformation. This is simply people whom spread lies, half truths and falsehoods in order to manipulate people and cause their thinking to sway in a certain direction, maybe only temporarily, such as during an election or investigation.
Sometimes there are no lies told, but rather, the truth is told but with a twisted sequence of events, for example. Or in other cases, the agent of disinformation may just deny a truth or set of truths, truthful accusations if you will, instead of telling a lie.
The agent of disinformation may also tell the same story, but in a different way each time, so as to confuse people.
The term agent of disinformation does not mean that the person is an agent or other officer, necessarily. It only infers to the medium thru which the information is relayed. When an agent of disinformation is used, it may be on a small or a large scale, but a certain goal or purpose is sought.

http://resistancereport.com/provocateurs..htm

In the common use of the term, propaganda refers to deliberately false or misleading information that supports a political cause or the interests of those in power, however propaganda can be based on truths, or lies, or a combination of both. The propagandist seeks to change the way people understand an issue or situation. What sets propaganda apart from other forms of advocacy is the willingness of the propagandist to change people's understanding through deception and confusion, rather than persuasion and understanding. The leaders of an organization know the information to be one sided or untrue but this may not be true for the rank and file members who help to disseminate the propaganda.
Some of the most effective propaganda techniques work by misdirecting or distracting the public's attention away from important issues. It's important to read between the lines of the news and see what isn't being reported, or what is reported once, quietly, and not followed up.

 

[BeanE]

Frog, I'm not going to carry the posts forward for the sake of thread real estate. I have researched this, in the past, when others have postulated it on other cases. From what I've found, in missing person cases, it's a conspiracy theory.

The day someone can point to a missing person case where LE came back later and admitted to lying to the public at large, via the media, as some kind of strategy, I'll entertain the notion further.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. We can still be friends. I enjoy your posts.

:grouphug:

 

[BeanE]

I don't think that Clint's account has ever changed, I think that LE is incompitant and confused from the begining. I think that's the pink elephant in the room that is making everyone want to smell a rat. I think the Bobo's just don't want to be rude and come out and say it...but you can hear Dana Bobo imply it big time in the latest interview.

I agree with the exception that LE is incompetent. I think they are competent - both the local LE and the TBI. Even the people who are the very best at their professions make mistakes sometimes. I think in this case, LE and the TBI made some mistakes in the very first few hours, and rather than be upfront about that - as I've seen LE do in other cases - they bumbled around rather than admit it.

The best thing to do when one makes a mistake in one's profession is to be open and upfront, acknowledge it, make your apologies, present a good plan of action to fix or compensate for it, and then work your tail off to make it as better as possible.

I think local LE and TBI at this point need to come forward and explain what happened, and what they have done about it. Besides rustling up a big fat reward.

 

[TxLady2]

I don't get this either.

She probably called him to find out if Holly was with him.

 

[TxLady2]

The thing is, for me, Frog, I just don't know of any missing person cases - or murder cases for that matter - where misinformation was deliberately propagated by LE. Every case I know of, LE simply doesn't release any information about a particular subject ("No comment") in hopes of catching slip ups.

My understanding is that the reason LE doesn't deliberately issue false information is because they have an obligation to uphold the public trust. Lying to the public, particularly via media, which can go national, would be a sure way to erode that trust, and abdicate their responsibility.

Do you know of any missing person or murder cases where LE has come back later and stated that they had deliberately issued false statements as a strategy?

I would say no, they don't deliberately give out misinformation publicly. If they want to see if someone in the family would slip up, they would not be going public to do that, it could be accomplished by talking to them one on one, privately.

However, the media has been known to leak information, or to misinterpret something they overhead. They lurk everywhere and sometimes they will corner a rookie who is not involved in a case and bribe them for information, which may or may not be correct. Not all reporters are ethical. There have been cases here that have ended in mistrials because of the media leaking something they shouldn't have.

My son says that when you are in LE, the media can be your best friend... or your worst enemy.

 

[TxLady2]

Lot of difference in being incompetent and merely making a mistake. Sometimes it boils down to making a bad judgement call, because of someone outside of LE giving them wrong information or steering them in the wrong direction. There is so much that goes on within any investigation, not many people have a clue as to how difficult some cases can be to handle.
And not every case is simple, some of them are downright difficult, if not impossible to figure out. Before anyone claims that LE is incompetent, they should try investigating a kidnapping case themselves. Dealing with the family, the media, and the public is pretty hard to do, especially when there is so much pressure put on them to get it done and they have very little to work with.

 

[Frogzilla]

Fair enough, I feel like we are arguing semantics here. Telling everything about the case would be disastrous. Many LE have been fired for this, because it is the one of the things you cannot do during an investigation. It would be equal to playing poker with all your cards face up on the table. Also, why would LE ever admit to their misinformation, wouldn't that ruin the purpose of trying to misinform? During the DC sniper case, the media had a lot of false information reported and who do you think the media sources were?
Here are some other cases where the police misinformed the public or mislead suspects to catch them.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/22083293/detail.html
Denver Police Department misleading the public when it released erroneous information about an attempted chemical attack on a union office building.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Poli...ation-about-Kaspersky-Kidnapping-196979.shtml --KIDNAPPING case from moscow
The police misinformation campaign involved telling news publications that Eugene Kaspersky refused to cooperate with authorities and agreed to pay the ransom.
This was probably done to raise the confidence of the kidnappers and lower their guard at the same time. Kaspersky Lab's previous statement that called onto the media to stop spreading "rumors and speculation" about the events, might have also been part of this plan.
Wouldn't you agree that there are situations where misinformation can be helpful?

 

[wishuwerehere]

Does anyone know if the TBI has relaesed any type of profile of the perp who kidnapped Holly?

 

[BeanE]

Does anyone know if the TBI has relaesed any type of profile of the perp who kidnapped Holly?

IIRC, just stuff like the following, nothing like type of personality, etc.

"The person responsible for Holly's disappearance lives in the area," said Mark Gwyn, director of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. "Because of the terrain, you have to know where you're going, entrances and exits. We feel the person is in the community. We're asking the community if you know someone who has changed their routine, please let us know."

Gwyn said signs of suspicious activity include calling in sick to work over the past week, excessively cleaning a car or all-terrain vehicle, or unexpectedly selling a vehicle.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/holly-bobo-reward-tripled-75000/story?id=13397819

 

[wishuwerehere]

The perp wouldn't have to clean his vehicle and/or sell it if he's keeping her alive, though.

 

[Chili Fries]

In Phuong Le's case, it seems like LE went out of their way to call false and disparage accurate info that had been reported by the press:

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-news-phuongle0615,0,1723680.story

My guess is that while they need to keep the public's trust in a general sense, misleading can work when dealing with specific info. But I tend to think that if something happens very early in the case, like Holly being "drug" away in this case, that it's just an example of mixups that unfortunately happen when the case is new and information is flooding in.


And on the other matter of whether LE screwed up by not setting up immediate roadblocks...I thought this was an interesting and sad detail from the case of Lorenzen Wright, he was the former NBA player who was murdered in Memphis a year ago:


In the early morning of July 19, a police dispatcher in the suburb of Germantown received a call from Wright's cell phone. Dispatchers acknowledged they heard noises like gunshots before the call was dropped.

Dispatchers said they didn't alert patrol officers or commanders because they couldn't confirm it came from their jurisdiction. They didn't send a patrol officer or relay the information to Memphis police until days later.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/6797597/lorenzen-wright-death-remains-mystery


Unfortunately they didn't find Lorenzen's body for another 10 days and at that time his body was already badly decomposed. His killers are still unknown and his mother has filed a suit against authorities for the botched response to the 911 call and because a missing persons report was not taken seriously. We've seen it over and over again...the first few minutes of LE's response are critical.

 

[shefner]

I think their call on the person being a local makes sense. The fact that Holly's home is in a remote area that cannot be easily seen from the road leads one to believe that the unsub is one who knows the home, knows the woods. If the unsub had followed her home, for instance, would they not have waited until she was out at school or out shopping to grab her? She was taken from home at an odd time of day...early morning. This leads one to believe the unsub knew the family....knew Holly's schedule....knew her parents were not there.

Next we have the fact that the items recovered, that belonged to Holly, were found in the area. If the unsub was from another area, they most certainly would grab Holly and run. But the indication is that the unsub stayed in the area and deliberately left Holly's belongings nearby. That would lead one to believe that the unsub is a local.

I would love to see a profile of this perp. I have had a few theories myself...that Holly was taken by someone who was obsessed with her or angry with her. This could be one person, most likely male in his early 20's to early 30's. Or it could be more than one person working together, in which case it would not surprise me to find that a female was involved. I think the second scenario is less likely as time goes by. If there is more than one unsub, then the chances go up that one of them will talk.

 

[Frogzilla]

In Phuong Le's case, it seems like LE went out of their way to call false and disparage accurate info that had been reported by the press:

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-news-phuongle0615,0,1723680.story

My guess is that while they need to keep the public's trust in a general sense, misleading can work when dealing with specific info. But I tend to think that if something happens very early in the case, like Holly being "drug" away in this case, that it's just an example of mixups that unfortunately happen when the case is new and information is flooding in.


And on the other matter of whether LE screwed up by not setting up immediate roadblocks...I thought this was an interesting and sad detail from the case of Lorenzen Wright, he was the former NBA player who was murdered in Memphis a year ago:


In the early morning of July 19, a police dispatcher in the suburb of Germantown received a call from Wright's cell phone. Dispatchers acknowledged they heard noises like gunshots before the call was dropped.

Dispatchers said they didn't alert patrol officers or commanders because they couldn't confirm it came from their jurisdiction. They didn't send a patrol officer or relay the information to Memphis police until days later.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/6797597/lorenzen-wright-death-remains-mystery


Unfortunately they didn't find Lorenzen's body for another 10 days and at that time his body was already badly decomposed. His killers are still unknown and his mother has filed a suit against authorities for the botched response to the 911 call and because a missing persons report was not taken seriously. We've seen it over and over again...the first few minutes of LE's response are critical.

Yes exactly, if LE wanted to clarify a mistake in the media they will always do so. If they do not, as in this case, then you have to read in between the lines for yourself. Reporters are vetting their stories with LE, so any serious reporter will not exaggerate to far.
100% agree the initial response can make or break a case, but that has no bearing on reports coming out in the weeks that followed, any mistakes in information sharing will be corrected by that time. And yes, roadblocks may have helped this case, or may not of. There is not enough credible info to know if that is true in this case or not. All I know to be true is that HB is missing and that is about it.

 

[OldSteve]

I think they made some huge mistakes from the very beginning.

1) Not clearing family members and BF from the start.

2) Convinced it was a local.

3) Allowed the public to trample on potential crime scene.

4) Searches were done by anyone. Unorganized.

5) I don't recall an Amber Alert being issued.


IMO, they had their eyes set on a local, perhaps a sex offender and when their investigation proved wrong, they were/are now left with having to deal with the consequences. Over 3 months later, they're back to square one.

IMO

BBM

Amber Alert was issued... also we debated in early thread that she might be too old for it to be done, but it was...

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/17/hundreds-search-tennessee-woods-for-missing-nursing-student/

 

[Wonless]

IMO, you can call LE handling of this case a mistake, incompetence, or whatever makes you feel better, but the bottom line, LE are public servants and have to be held accountable by the public. LE do make mistakes, and they also lie, and cover up. Remember the Martha Moxley golf club handle? Its the public's responsiblity to hold them accountable. Now, three months later, all they have done is to ask for the public's help in finding Holly, but they have not given the public FACTS to look for or look at, or a MOST PLAUSIBLE timeline. IMO, LE or the Bobo's could release the known FACTS surrounding the immediate abduction without giving away anything that would interfer with a future prosecution.
IMO this would make more sense.
Clint sees Holly entering woods at Approx TIME A
Women hears screams at Approx TIME B
Then make an investigative assumtion about speed of travel in the given terrian of the Bobo Residence. Then INVESTIGATE corresponding radius. Try and locate possible vehicle sites. Try and locate everyone who has been in these locations within 24-48 hours of the crime. Do that by releasing those location details to the general public. Also release the exact location of each piece of evidence found, along with an approx timeframe in which its possible that each piece of evidence left...ie at location XYZ, an undisclosed piece of evidence was found, and LE believe it was deposited between time A and time B. Then release a timeline and locations of everywhere Holly was in the 48 hours before the crime. If Holly was at a gas station the day before, and LE know this and they go the gas station and interview the attendant on duty, thats great, but they don't interview everyone at that gas station who didn't see Holly, but saw a suspisious vehicle, and didn't connect it to Holly because that person can't connect the vehicle to Holly, so they dont come forward. The worst this leaves the prosecution of any future suspect would be to help the defense set up an alibi for that time, but what realistic suspect in this case can't figure out that he needs an alibi for the 48 hours surrounding the crime. My point is, it stacks the deck in Holly's favor and gives away nothing, especially after 3 months when any physical evidence at the crime scene is long gone.
Or LE could continue to allow the public to speculate about weather or not she was dragged into the woods, a feasco it certainly appears they are reasonible for, and which did nothing accept cause the family more unnessary pain by casting suspition onto Clint, and distracts the focus from what was important. I mean, where Im from Sheriff is an elected office. I know who I wouldnt be voting for. Im just saying its the pink elephant in the room.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

The perp wouldn't have to clean his vehicle and/or sell it if he's keeping her alive, though.

He might still have to if he didn't want tire tracks to be matched up, hair or evidence left by Holly to be found in the car, trace evidence from the car to be tracked back to him at some point, etc.

 

[shefner]

It almost feels like the unsub is a person who is unafraid. Someone who is so close to LE or the community, that they might never be suspected....or if suspected, would never have to worry about being discovered. Perhaps someone with connections? Mmmmm....
Don't know. Just a feeling....

 

[wishuwerehere]

It almost feels like the unsub is a person who is unafraid. Someone who is so close to LE or the community, that they might never be suspected....or if suspected, would never have to worry about being discovered. Perhaps someone with connections? Mmmmm....
Don't know. Just a feeling....

Yes. In total agreement. Like this perp is depending on the incompetence and/or mistakes made by LE because these things are not an accident.

Also, previously I stated that he may not have to clean or sell his car because there may be a strong chance he has not killed Holly. Maybe she's still alive.