TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #31

[Fishee]

I still think a Grand Jury would be a way to get people to answer questions under oath or face
perjury.

That would be contempt not perjury.

 

[cfreyja23]

Link please?

I'm not sure why you would ask for a link to something prefaced as my opinion. It's my opinion based on the many things I've read about the case, there is no link to it.

 

[Oriah]

Oriah, I think your strategy of mapping to find Holly is worthwhile regarding direction, opportunity and seclusion, but only if you believe the witness account as fact.

If the witness account is not believed, where would you suggest searching?

Do you know if the topography in Parsons, TN is cavernous?

TIA

This is moo obviously, but I believe the witness account as fact. I haven't found much to indicate otherwise, besides a bunch of really bad reporting, and a witness who I believe was completely befuzzled (not uncommon).

There are caves in the area.

If the witness account is not to be believed...well, I can't imagine how Holly would not have been found in relatively short order. The time frame is so tight...I just don't see the huge conspiracy that would be necessary to have her within a 20 min radius, on foot or ATV.

In a vehicle capable of traveling at higher speeds... well, I agree with the mile-a-minute.

 

[Oriah]

Snipped by me.

This is a good point Oriah, something I glanced over but never gave much thought.

Swan Johnson Rd, Myracle Town Rd, 5 Forks Rd along with most roads in the area are rather narrow.

Where I live, police cruisers have dashboard cameras (many have exterior cameras, front and back) that automatically record as soon as an officer turns on their lights and siren (code 3, meaning lights and sirens needed, fast emergency response).

I would imagine that, when the police did find out that a man lead Holly Bobo into the woods along with Clint's call that blood was found, all police cruisers in the area would be dispatched code 3 to the Bobo residence, possibly video taping a suspect's car leave the area as they enter it.

Even if it didn't film the suspect's car, it might be helpful to follow up and interview the people who drove those cars to find out if they saw anything out of the ordinary on or near those roads.

Does anyone know if the local police vehicles have this capability?

Thoughts from people that have read far more case files than I have?

Idk- but if I had to guess, I'd say a rural department such as Darden/Parsons/the SO's probably only have a few dashboard cams on certain vehicles because they're kind of expensive.
But it sure wouldn't hurt to ask, I think. 1st responder vehicles may have gotten lucky, and someone might remember something. Good idea.

 

[Oriah]

I'm not sure why you would ask for a link to something prefaced as my opinion. It's my opinion based on the many things I've read about the case, there is no link to it.

My bad- read through quickly and didn't realize that you were stating only your opinion of what LE thought.
I was looking for a link to a statement from LE, that represented that as the LE opinion. It doesn't seem that LE has that opinion to me- so that's why I was confused.

 

[Fishee]

I'm not sure why you would ask for a link to something prefaced as my opinion. It's my opinion based on the many things I've read about the case, there is no link to it.

I could see why - I was thinking the same thing as Oriah. You said IMO but you seemed to be alluding to something.

 

[~n/t~]

Didn't LE later on say she may have been taken away by vehicle? Or maybe it was her dad that said it. If that's the case, where would a local take her to possibly rape and murder her and why the need for a vehicle when they could've just dumped her body? Was it because it was planned? Was it because the perp panicked and took her to his parked car? Or it's not a local?

Any other thoughts?

 

[wishuwerehere]

This is moo obviously, but I believe the witness account as fact. I haven't found much to indicate otherwise, besides a bunch of really bad reporting, and a witness who I believe was completely befuzzled (not uncommon).

There are caves in the area.

If the witness account is not to be believed...well, I can't imagine how Holly would not have been found in relatively short order. The time frame is so tight...I just don't see the huge conspiracy that would be necessary to have her within a 20 min radius, on foot or ATV.

In a vehicle capable of traveling at higher speeds... well, I agree with the mile-a-minute.

Thanks for answering my post. IMO if we take away all of the excuses for Clint, i.e. bad reporting, and befuzzled, what are we left with – someone who was the last person known to be seen with Holly and now Holly is missing. Blood was found. (This could indicate she was killed right there.) I can’t ignore these facts.

Also, imo 20 minutes is a decent amount of time “to take care of matters” if you know where you’re going. It’s very possible Holly is at the bottom of a cavern somewhere close to her home. Or another possibility is that Holly was “missed” when searching originally. As in the Sharon West case, searchers and dogs were near her body but didn’t find her the first time around.

As far as a “huge conspiracy” is concerned, if Clint is lying, well, there’s your conspiracy. People lie. It’s not a stretch to accept that. IMO.

When Lacy Peterson went missing initially and the public was pointing the finger at Scott Peterson was that a conspiracy? Once Lacy and Conner’s bodies were found in the Bay, it wasn’t a conspiracy any longer. And Scott Peterson was known to everyone as a “nice guy.” Unfortunately for us, many monsters out there wear “nice guy” masks.

If Holly is at the bottom of a cavern, I do not believe she will ever be found. And as I am seeing more and more with missing persons cases, “No body, No case.”

To be honest, my biggest problem with pointing the finger at Clint is motive. Not much info about Clint has been released to the public. So, we wait, and hopefully LE does more searches for Holly.

jmo

 

[Frogzilla]

I think all we have to go on in this case is a murky story, an unreliable witness, an uncooperative LE agency and then plenty of innuendos and biases to guide us in this case. If you really break down some of the ideas presented in CB's account, then it becomes hard to not see this as somebody with intimate knowledge of the Bobo family and their property being the abductor. Whether the abductor was a local or not, they had the knowledge any local would. There are far too many coincidences in all of the accounts given to not feel this was an inside job of sorts. The time spent(10+ minutes) out by the garage before casually walking away towards the woods, CB's unwavering description of the perp which is not in the ballpark of DS (who he believed was camo man originally), the hunting fiasco that seemingly needed to be immediately resolved while everyone involved was getting ready for school/work or at work already and preceded HB being abducted by a matter of minutes (took 6 months for this account of that morning to be made public and it was seemingly to help clear DS of suspicions, which IMO it only raises more questions.) IMO there was already much confusion during that morning before CB even wakes up and I don't think it is a stretch to assume that KB may have put some of her own confusions onto CB while he is witnessing the abduction, causing him to second guess and/or react slowly. Of course if CB just walks out to the garage to ask what's up, this story would be much different for better or worse.
The evidence being found over a two week time, scattered around the local area, some being found because of phoned tips, and if this was dumped during the commission of the abduction, then the abductor was joy riding around taking a very circuitous route wherever they were going.
I still cannot quite figure out this whole hunting fiasco with DS and his father on grandma Bobo's property where they were not recognized by others members of the Bobo family. I know that LE has all this info and if there were something eye popping about it, LE would be all over it, but that doesn't mean there isn't something there to pick up on. It seemed to me this tidbit was prefaced to the effect that it clears DS of being the abductor when it actually does not clear him of any involvement within the content of article. Is there something to the idea that CB and DS are said to not be considered suspects when there is not any information provided to actually clear them, but we are told and given half accounts by the family that they are cleared? Does the info that clears them implicate somebody else or is this just not to give any more information then they have to? It is one thing to protect an investigation, it is another thing to hold a seemingly innocent victim's life hostage(CB) by presenting him as dim witted and completely unreliable. I guess there is some irony in CB saying camo man was DS and then LE contradicting CB's eye witness account by saying she was forcibly removed when CB says they casually walked away. Nobody is on the same page here and CB takes the brunt of it. IMO I cannot imagine a scenario where I would ever allow my name to be smeared to anyone and everyone. Either I thought something was wrong and I would intervene or I didn't think anything was wrong and I would go on about my life. Either way I tell it like it is and I wouldn't make excuses one way or the other. This case is ALL excuses and no facts. No info is prefaced or given backdrop, it is just tossed into the air like a ball and wherever it lands, it lands.
And as we have went over this many times before, there could be a very simple version to this story, instead we have been dragged along given little tidbits of uncorroborated information that even the most benefit of the doubt giving person would have to take pause at.
Lastly, I just wanted to throw a few random questions out relating to DS and hunting that morning. If CB actually believed camo man is DS, then I would first ask is it common for DS to come hunt around the Bobo home but park somewhere else in the neighborhood? If there was somewhere else to park, was this common knowledge to the locals since the Bobo property adjoins the state park? Was it common for them to allow friendlies to hunt in and around their property? If DS hunts around the home and when he gets a turkey, is it common for him to carry it back to the home or would he put it in his vehicle and drive it over? Has DS ever come to the home at 7:30 on a Wednesday morning to show HB a turkey before, or any morning for that matter? Has he ever seen DS carry a turkey to the home and leave it in the garage as he walked back into the woods? If CB has never seen any of these things and it is the first things he assumes, then something is very wrong.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

In a paraglider even with the help of a good wind you are not in the air very long. It seems a small
plane or helicopter using a high resolution camera would be the best solution. A grid could be
mapped out using GPS.

Its not like a parasail or hang glider. They are ultralight type aircraft with a gas motor and propeller.

http://www.notesbit.com/download/media/images/space/motorized_paraglider_full.jpg

 

[MizStery]

Its not like a parasail or hang glider. They are ultralight type aircraft with a gas motor and propeller.

http://www.notesbit.com/download/media/images/space/motorized_paraglider_full.jpg

This is from WIKI
The governing regulation in the United States is FAR 103 Ultralight Vehicles, which specifies a
powered "ultralight" as a single seat vehicle of less than 5 US gallons (19 L) fuel capacity, empty weight of less than 254 pounds (115*kg), a top speed of 55 knots (102*km/h or 64*mph), and a maximum stall speed not exceeding 24 knots (45*km/h or 27.6*mph).

It is not clear to me if the pilot is able to hold a camera and take photo's in the "ultralight". If
indeed.... the vehicle can be navigated while the pilot is taking pictures then hopefully that is what
the "ulralight" was doing. If not then I would think a small plane taking ariel photo's might be the
most useful tool in surveillance ...not nearly as good as a ground search but still better
than doing nothing.

We have an eye witness who has only a fuzzy recollection of the chronological events leading to his sisters abduction. Your either sympathetic as to his state of mind or think there is conscience effort exerted to keep the story shrouded in vagueness. Another mystery is why he calls umpteen times to ask what to do about the perp .....when it is clear he believes it is DS. CB has absolutly no intention of listening or acting on any of the phone conversations right up to and including the command to get a gun pursue HB. To what end does he maintain the charade of 'but I knew it was DS and HB. So it must have been the cell phone calls were to cobble together or anchor the timeline. Now, the scream really was a problem ...how do you explain not hearing a screen coming from your house? More garbled explanations. Finally,I kind of wonder if CB already knows it is HB with DS why isn't he working on his paper? Isn't that the reason he isn't out hunting that morning? More obfuscation. :waitasec:


Is there a way out of this circular logic? I know your sick of my hope that a
Grand Jury will be convined. But, until people are interviewed individually and answer questions & all of this information is compiled into a logical timeline it seems we spend time either
overcompensating or suspicious of all the glaring inconsistencies in CB's timeline. We are stuck with a witness that is a lightening rod of contradictions. MOO


Thanks to Frogzilla for your well thought out post. :seeya:

 

[nosyone]

I think all we have to go on in this case is a murky story, an unreliable witness, an uncooperative LE agency and then plenty of innuendos and biases to guide us in this case. If you really break down some of the ideas presented in CB's account, then it becomes hard to not see this as somebody with intimate knowledge of the Bobo family and their property being the abductor. Whether the abductor was a local or not, they had the knowledge any local would. There are far too many coincidences in all of the accounts given to not feel this was an inside job of sorts. The time spent(10+ minutes) out by the garage before casually walking away towards the woods, CB's unwavering description of the perp which is not in the ballpark of DS (who he believed was camo man originally), the hunting fiasco that seemingly needed to be immediately resolved while everyone involved was getting ready for school/work or at work already and preceded HB being abducted by a matter of minutes (took 6 months for this account of that morning to be made public and it was seemingly to help clear DS of suspicions, which IMO it only raises more questions.) IMO there was already much confusion during that morning before CB even wakes up and I don't think it is a stretch to assume that KB may have put some of her own confusions onto CB while he is witnessing the abduction, causing him to second guess and/or react slowly. Of course if CB just walks out to the garage to ask what's up, this story would be much different for better or worse.
The evidence being found over a two week time, scattered around the local area, some being found because of phoned tips, and if this was dumped during the commission of the abduction, then the abductor was joy riding around taking a very circuitous route wherever they were going.
I still cannot quite figure out this whole hunting fiasco with DS and his father on grandma Bobo's property where they were not recognized by others members of the Bobo family. I know that LE has all this info and if there were something eye popping about it, LE would be all over it, but that doesn't mean there isn't something there to pick up on. It seemed to me this tidbit was prefaced to the effect that it clears DS of being the abductor when it actually does not clear him of any involvement within the content of article. Is there something to the idea that CB and DS are said to not be considered suspects when there is not any information provided to actually clear them, but we are told and given half accounts by the family that they are cleared? Does the info that clears them implicate somebody else or is this just not to give any more information then they have to? It is one thing to protect an investigation, it is another thing to hold a seemingly innocent victim's life hostage(CB) by presenting him as dim witted and completely unreliable. I guess there is some irony in CB saying camo man was DS and then LE contradicting CB's eye witness account by saying she was forcibly removed when CB says they casually walked away. Nobody is on the same page here and CB takes the brunt of it. IMO I cannot imagine a scenario where I would ever allow my name to be smeared to anyone and everyone. Either I thought something was wrong and I would intervene or I didn't think anything was wrong and I would go on about my life. Either way I tell it like it is and I wouldn't make excuses one way or the other. This case is ALL excuses and no facts. No info is prefaced or given backdrop, it is just tossed into the air like a ball and wherever it lands, it lands.
And as we have went over this many times before, there could be a very simple version to this story, instead we have been dragged along given little tidbits of uncorroborated information that even the most benefit of the doubt giving person would have to take pause at.
Lastly, I just wanted to throw a few random questions out relating to DS and hunting that morning. If CB actually believed camo man is DS, then I would first ask is it common for DS to come hunt around the Bobo home but park somewhere else in the neighborhood? If there was somewhere else to park, was this common knowledge to the locals since the Bobo property adjoins the state park? Was it common for them to allow friendlies to hunt in and around their property? If DS hunts around the home and when he gets a turkey, is it common for him to carry it back to the home or would he put it in his vehicle and drive it over? Has DS ever come to the home at 7:30 on a Wednesday morning to show HB a turkey before, or any morning for that matter? Has he ever seen DS carry a turkey to the home and leave it in the garage as he walked back into the woods? If CB has never seen any of these things and it is the first things he assumes, then something is very wrong.

You make such a good point that I hadn't really thought about. Clint was so sure it was DS that it really didn't dawn on him that something was wrong, but yet his description of the suspect wasn't anything like DS's stature. That is weird!:banghead:

 

[cfreyja23]

My bad- read through quickly and didn't realize that you were stating only your opinion of what LE thought.
I was looking for a link to a statement from LE, that represented that as the LE opinion. It doesn't seem that LE has that opinion to me- so that's why I was confused.

No worries . Looking back at my comment, I can see how writing "IMO", then parentheses, then my opinion, made it look like I was stating a fact. My opinion is actually based on many of the comments the locals made months ago, which I just read over again the other day. They posted about what they had observed LE do and what they talked to their neighbors about. I wasn't alluding to anything and claim no special knowledge, except that I am familiar with probable cause in my profession.

 

[Yoda]

I agree Frogzilla. why cant Clint clear up what happened? Maybe he freezes, gets flustered, is too emotional, but it would be very easy for him to write out, with LE approval, the correct details. How is him clarifying what happened going to hurt finding Holly? I don't think he is keeping quiet because he doesn't want people to criticize him for the different stories- that boat has sailed and it now in the Bermuda Triangle! I can guarantee people will still be doubtful of his clarification, but it can only help if just by bringing attention to Holly's story. That leaves me also thinking this case's solution is very, very close to home.

 

[cfreyja23]

I could see why - I was thinking the same thing as Oriah. You said IMO but you seemed to be alluding to something.

I have no special information about this case, other than the same things everyone else here has read, which includes posts made by verified locals. I'd be happy to point out which one of their comments lead to my opinion, I just didn't think anyone would be interested in my going into detail. As with every WS member's opinion, mine is based on a collection of information here and whatever specialized knowledge I have in my own brain. I'm so accustomed to reading everyone else's opinions on WS without questioning why they think that, that I didn't think it would be a problem to express my own.

 

[liltexans]

I agree Frogzilla. why cant Clint clear up what happened? Maybe he freezes, gets flustered, is too emotional, but it would be very easy for him to write out, with LE approval, the correct details. How is him clarifying what happened going to hurt finding Holly? I don't think he is keeping quiet because he doesn't want people to criticize him for the different stories- that boat has sailed and it now in the Bermuda Triangle! I can guarantee people will still be doubtful of his clarification, but it can only help if just by bringing attention to Holly's story. That leaves me also thinking this case's solution is very, very close to home.

Just my opinion, but I think the key words in your post are "with LE approval". I think from the moment Holly disappeared, the Bobos have been speaking out almost exclusively only "with LE approval". Since I have little to no faith in LE in this particular case, I think the Bobos have allowed themselves to be put at a great disadvantage in terms of clearing up the facts surrounding what Clint did or did not see and what can be done now to locate Holly.

 

[Janeumayer]

I have been away for a while. Sorry if this has already been posted but I just saw this photo gallery. A few pictures I hadn't seen before.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10007417.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Looking through the pics I've noticed that in some, the boyfriend is not smiling. Could there have been trouble bet. them?

Also, picture #49, Holly is frowning and it looks like she has a bruise on her left cheek?

Maybe it's my imagination but we do know that her boyfriend was there that morning, per her mom.

Maybe they had a fight and he left only to return later and took Holly with him? Holly's brother did say that the "abductor" looked like her boyfriend.... MOO

 

[nosyone]

I have no special information about this case, other than the same things everyone else here has read, which includes posts made by verified locals. I'd be happy to point out which one of their comments lead to my opinion, I just didn't think anyone would be interested in my going into detail. As with every WS member's opinion, mine is based on a collection of information here and whatever specialized knowledge I have in my own brain. I'm so accustomed to reading everyone else's opinions on WS without questioning why they think that, that I didn't think it would be a problem to express my own.

I will be very interested in reading your opinions!

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Looking through the pics I've noticed that in some, the boyfriend is not smiling. Could there have been trouble bet. them?

Also, picture #49, Holly is frowning and it looks like she has a bruise on her left cheek?

Maybe it's my imagination but we do know that her boyfriend was there that morning, per her mom.

Maybe they had a fight and he left only to return later and took Holly with him? Holly's brother did say that the "abductor" looked like her boyfriend.... MOO

There is no known fight. Drew was not at the house that morning. Holly's mom never said anything about Drew being at the house... he was across the county that morning hunting on a relatives property.

 

[Janeumayer]

There is no known fight. Drew was not at the house that morning. Holly's mom never said anything about Drew being at the house... he was across the county that morning hunting on a relatives property.

My mistake on Drew being there earlier that morning. But he did get to his work at 8am. Does anyone know where he works in relation to Holly's house?