TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #33

[dejavoodoo64]

What in the world is that black and while partition to the right. Please orient me to the corrugated steel wall. lease:

I believe the B/W partition is the dark brown siding of the garage/house and its light reflection. The corrugated I believe shows the garage doesn't connect to the house on that wall, even though the roof goes over it.

 

[Almondjoy]

This is a radio feed from the April 30th,2011Levi Page program that I listened to on my iPad Podcast App*
First,I wish I could transcribe the talk radio feed. *I again must confess, I had never heard of any of these people until a few days ago.The panel consisted of Levi Page(host of the program),former police chief Dr. Richard Wemblath,homicide prosecutor Donna Pendergast and criminal profiler Pat Brown.That being said,the most interesting discussion had to do with the (conflicting) initial reporting of Holly's abduction. This podcast is dated April 30th,2011.
* Initial reports from LE stated that Holly was dragged away(assumption that it was CB 911 call, since he was the lone eye witness)
* Police who responded to the 911 call found no drag marks(evidence did not match the eye witness statement)
* The abduction scene then radically changed from Holly being "dragged to the woods" to "Holly being led away by camo man "in fear of her life" to the woods.

I agree with the previous post that said the panel ....thought there was evidence that Clint did "report" that Holly was dragged BUT after LE found no drag marks this was *recanted. (the word 'recanted' was from another post)Someone else could listen and perhaps interpret it differently. I still have another Podcast to listen to from a later date. I will post a synopsis of that program as soon as possible.*

I did my best to report what was on the feed(please do not take me to the woodshed for my post)If there is anyone else who would listen and post their synopsis....I would appreciate it. MOO
*

Thank you for your synopsis! Very interesting! Let me play "devil's advocate" for a moment! Suppose LE arrived on the scene and asked the family where they last saw Holly. If people were somewhat hysterical by this point, which I assume they were, can you not imagine Clint saying, "He drug her off into the woods!" As a family member, you'd want to convey urgency so the cops would not just stand there! I can't imagine him telling LE, "Well, my sister just went for a walk in the woods with some guy!" I think he didn't choose his verbs right, possibly due to the chaos. It sounds like by the time LE got there, the family had already gone partially into the woods and seen no sign of anyone and come back out again. JMHO, as always.

 

[Almondjoy]

I believe the B/W partition is the dark brown siding of the garage/house and its light reflection. The corrugated I believe shows the garage doesn't connect to the house on that wall, even though the roof goes over it.

I believe you are correct! I think when the family enclosed their garage at the other end of the house, this shed was built on as a place to park cars out of the weather. Thus, the original back wall of the house was left intact, and the corrugated wall is flush up against the back of the house.

On the interior, there is an old door to the garage that now seems to go to the family room. I saw an interview last night on some archive site that had Dana, Karen, and Clint sitting in that family room by the fireplace. I believe this room to be right behind the pool.

The kitchen then has a door that looks to me to be possibly behind the pool somewhere. It's hard to see in the pictures. I think it comes out onto a deck of sorts which is on two sides of the pool. There must be a little breezeway or some type of entrance into the garage. I cannot see how there would be an interior window looking out into that garage, as it looks added on! Unless there was a window on the back of the house that was not covered and looks down into the carport, I can't figure out where there would be a window. I would think the bedrooms are on the carport end of the house, because the den is on the other end.

I'm getting around to the point that Holly may have had to exit out of the kitchen to a breezeway or the large opening of the carport(alternately called garage by family) to get into her car. That leaves more room for an attacker to accost her--since she probably was not exiting an interior door right into an enclosed garage! This "garage" is open! Anyone could get in, crouch behind the car, hide in the shadows, etc., because there is no "security" in an open shed of sorts.

Why did the dog bark when it did? I am convinced it heard someone unfamiliar--either the voice of someone, or the sound of a motorized vehicle coming in range of the house! Our dog, a housedog, can hear a vehicle on the gravel outside long before our human ears hear someone coming up a long driveway. The dog heard something that made it alert! Someone tiptoeing around outside would unlikely cause such a commotion. I wonder if there was not a vehicle or ATV parked out of sight but within range of the dog's hearing. That would explain the seemingly hasty getaway!

 

[bznbear]

This interview was conducted April 20,2011. Pat Brown, asks the same questions then..... that we are puzzling over to this day.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1104/20/ng.01.html

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, Deborah, you certainly can`t ignore something like that. I mean we see people repeat MOs, and if these MOs are similar, that`s going to go right up on the radar.*

But what I think what everybody is having so much trouble with in these cases is all the evasiveness. The evasiveness from the family, the evasiveness from the brother, the evasiveness from the police. And we`re not getting answers. Things are just -- seem like we should be able to get answers to, like when was the 911 call made? Did the dogs find a trail into the woods?*

I mean if her blood is out there spattered somewhere, and it`s her blood, which
are not going to tell us either, why wouldn`t the dogs follow that trail to the woods?

Then we also have the lunchbox problem. I mean if you have somebody dragging a women into the woods, why does her lunchbox which should be in her hand show up eight miles away? I don`t think she`s going to be clutching it
for eight miles of walking the woods. It doesn`t even make sense.*

NORVILLE: Do you think that`s a red herring that the guy has planted?

BROWN: You know I think there`s a lot of things about this case that we don`t
know. I don`t know if there`s a staged crime going on here. I don`t know -- we just don`t have the information so that we can put things together and make sense.

But I think it`s extremely important for the family to come forth and be very open and the police as well because I think there`s some people out there searching and searching, wanting to find Holly, and they`re getting frustrated because they`re thinking, wait a minute, maybe we`re searching for no reason.*

And I don`t think they want to think that way. I think they want to find Holly. I think they want to bring her home. I think they want to know if there`s a true abductor. So they can go out there and do their best. I think they need to just be a little bit more open and help everybody out here.

Please forgive me if my question has been asked and answered, but does anyone know if Clint ever stated he saw Holly clutching her lunch box as she walked into the woods?

It seems she would have to have had it with her for it to end up so many miles away.

 

[Chili Fries]

I believe you are correct! I think when the family enclosed their garage at the other end of the house, this shed was built on as a place to park cars out of the weather. Thus, the original back wall of the house was left intact, and the corrugated wall is flush up against the back of the house.

On the interior, there is an old door to the garage that now seems to go to the family room. I saw an interview last night on some archive site that had Dana, Karen, and Clint sitting in that family room by the fireplace. I believe this room to be right behind the pool.

The kitchen then has a door that looks to me to be possibly behind the pool somewhere. It's hard to see in the pictures. I think it comes out onto a deck of sorts which is on two sides of the pool. There must be a little breezeway or some type of entrance into the garage. I cannot see how there would be an interior window looking out into that garage, as it looks added on! Unless there was a window on the back of the house that was not covered and looks down into the carport, I can't figure out where there would be a window. I would think the bedrooms are on the carport end of the house, because the den is on the other end.

I'm getting around to the point that Holly may have had to exit out of the kitchen to a breezeway or the large opening of the carport(alternately called garage by family) to get into her car. That leaves more room for an attacker to accost her--since she probably was not exiting an interior door right into an enclosed garage! This "garage" is open! Anyone could get in, crouch behind the car, hide in the shadows, etc., because there is no "security" in an open shed of sorts.

Why did the dog bark when it did? I am convinced it heard someone unfamiliar--either the voice of someone, or the sound of a motorized vehicle coming in range of the house! Our dog, a housedog, can hear a vehicle on the gravel outside long before our human ears hear someone coming up a long driveway. The dog heard something that made it alert! Someone tiptoeing around outside would unlikely cause such a commotion. I wonder if there was not a vehicle or ATV parked out of sight but within range of the dog's hearing. That would explain the seemingly hasty getaway!

I've always figured the scream made the dog start going crazy. There is the question of whether the Bobo's have outside dogs too. Clint said one time that he woke up when the "inside dog" started barking. Maybe the outside dogs barked all the time so nobody really paid attention to them. I know how that is living out in the country, having had neighbors with dogs that lived mostly outside.

Also, how hasty was the getaway if they just walked into the woods. The reason I ask this is one thing I don't remember seeing posted...Holly knew Clint was inside. If she was abducted by a gun or knife wielding man, maybe she made the conscious decision to not alert him to Clint's presence in order to save Clint from the possibility of harm.

 

[Frogzilla]

Considering it allegedly took LE 10 minutes to get to the property would they have passed a vehicle if Holly was taken by vehicle? Would it be one road leading to their property?

I've never heard of a case where the story was "amended" or "revised".....and that was the first time. It has been amended or revised at least 2 or 3 times since that video.

This is the most bizarre case ever, imo.

Yes, there is only one road that runs north and south along their property. The backside of their property is adjacent to the state park. Did somebody see a vehicle on the road that morning? We don't have any evidence one way or another, but I think an educated guess would be yes, there were people seen on the road that morning, and no they probably were not dressed in camo and/or with a blonde haired passenger at that time.
In regards to the 'story' as we know it, I can buy into the idea of initial confusion over statements LE made because there were several members of LE talking. For me, it was when CB contradicted what LE had already clarified that showed a huge disconnect somewhere in this case (LE version of arm holding in fear of her life versus CB's casual stroll to the woods with no arm holding or leading, which is revised now into with elbows bent and the only times I ever heard that phrase is when people have their hand near their face). When combined with several family members saying that the public didn't know the whole story (mostly in defense of CB comments/actions), it made it hard to believe the 'story' because we were already told that we don't know the 'story'. That naturally leads to questions like- why did the 'story' evolve if it wasn't accurate and why did it evolve into this paradox of a case? I know I try to give a little benefit of the doubt on much of what we have been told, but it doesn't make it any less strange.

 

[MizStery]

:maddening:

Thank you for your synopsis! Very interesting! Let me play "devil's advocate" for a moment! Suppose LE arrived on the scene and asked the family where they last saw Holly. If people were somewhat hysterical by this point, which I assume they were, can you not imagine Clint saying, "He drug her off into the woods!" As a family member, you'd want to convey urgency so the cops would not just stand there! I can't imagine him telling LE, "Well, my sister just went for a walk in the woods with some guy!" I think he didn't choose his verbs right, possibly due to the chaos. It sounds like by the time LE got there, the family had already gone partially into the woods and seen no sign of anyone and come back out again. JMHO, as always.

I think taken alone ...your theory is fine.... but in the larger context ...given the evasiveness and morphing narration since Holly was reported missing something very odd is going on in Holly's abduction. The refusal to release transcripts of the 911 call(s) or something as simple as who,the number and the time the 911 calls were placed ....leave many of us questioning WHY. It's over a year since poor innocent Holly vanished .....she needs to be found! MOO

 

[dejavoodoo64]

Thank you for your synopsis! Very interesting! Let me play "devil's advocate" for a moment! Suppose LE arrived on the scene and asked the family where they last saw Holly. If people were somewhat hysterical by this point, which I assume they were, can you not imagine Clint saying, "He drug her off into the woods!" As a family member, you'd want to convey urgency so the cops would not just stand there! I can't imagine him telling LE, "Well, my sister just went for a walk in the woods with some guy!" I think he didn't choose his verbs right, possibly due to the chaos. It sounds like by the time LE got there, the family had already gone partially into the woods and seen no sign of anyone and come back out again. JMHO, as always.

I think it was pointed out early on, but "drug and dragged" are pretty common in the south. How many times has someone heard "my wife drug me out shopping" or "My kids dragged me to toys are us" It kinda means you went, but didn't really want to. Thats all he might of meant IMO.

/Toys R Us is my nightmare. I get dragged there often.

 

[wishuwerehere]

I think it was pointed out early on, but "drug and dragged" are pretty common in the south. How many times has someone heard "my wife drug me out shopping" or "My kids dragged me to toys are us" It kinda means you went, but didn't really want to. Thats all he might of meant IMO.

/Toys R Us is my nightmare. I get dragged there often.

If an eyewitness to an abduction told LE he saw his sister “being dragged” into the woods, wouldn’t LE have follow-up questions to that statement, so as to clarify? For example, “So you saw her being pulled? By her hands, feet, her hair? Was she facing up or down?” And so on…

jmo

 

[Almondjoy]

I've always figured the scream made the dog start going crazy. There is the question of whether the Bobo's have outside dogs too. Clint said one time that he woke up when the "inside dog" started barking. Maybe the outside dogs barked all the time so nobody really paid attention to them. I know how that is living out in the country, having had neighbors with dogs that lived mostly outside.

Also, how hasty was the getaway if they just walked into the woods. The reason I ask this is one thing I don't remember seeing posted...Holly knew Clint was inside. If she was abducted by a gun or knife wielding man, maybe she made the conscious decision to not alert him to Clint's presence in order to save Clint from the possibility of harm.

I've been revisiting the videos and evidence the past few days. I have my own personal theories, but sometimes it's not helpful to vocalize these things.

Concerning the dogs, I see a golden retriever-looking dog walking around in the outside video Karen does with the Channel 3 news lady. I see a grey lapdog in Holly's arms in one picture. So I'm assuming the grey housedog might be the one that woke Clint, and maybe the outside one was barking too. He was probably thinking, "Now who's here! My family is all gone to work and school!"

Another random thought I've had is that Holly was reportedly wearing flip flops. Looking at the terrain, I see searchers wearing boots and carrying walking sticks to steady themselves. I doubt Holly made it too far on foot. Her feet would have been torn up! That's why I think there was an escape vehicle parked not too far away!

In every clip I see of the family, and there aren't many, their words flow easily. I don't get any hint of them having to choose words carefully, as one would do when crafting a tale! I see a genuineness there that I think would be hard to fake.

 

[SmoothOperator]

After studying the pictures the only way it seems possible is there is a narrow hallway(for lack of a better word) running from the house by, or may be part of the garage and there is door leading into the garage from there and thats the camera shot. That doesn't explain the corrugated though as that would have to be the front wall next to the house, plus there appears to be light up under it. I guess it could be concrete? There just isn't enough shots of the house to be sure. I am no way saying I'm correct, just the only explanation I could possibly see. JMO

Above BBM..

EXACTLY!! Thanks for putting into words in half a sentence what i couldn't manage to accomplish in 3+ posts, 100+ words, and 3 posted photos! .this is exactly how i see it as well!

 

[MizStery]

Please forgive me if my question has been asked and answered, but does anyone know if Clint ever stated he saw Holly clutching her lunch box as she walked into the woods?

It seems she would have to have had it with her for it to end up so many miles away.

:welcome:

quote bznbear
"It seems she would have to have had it with her for it to end up so many miles away."

This has always been my interpretation.

I did not begin following Holly's thread full time until October 2011. There are posters who have been here since day 1. I am sure they could best answer your question.

I am glad you have joined he forum. I look forward to reading your posts. MOO

 

[dejavoodoo64]

If an eyewitness to an abduction told LE he saw his sister “being dragged” into the woods, wouldn’t LE have follow-up questions to that statement, so as to clarify? For example, “So you saw her being pulled? By her hands, feet, her hair? Was she facing up or down?” And so on…

jmo

Well sure, wasn't the initial statement of "dragged" changed to led? They may have clarified it with him. JMO

 

[dejavoodoo64]

I think when Clint called his mom to see if Holly had decided to skip school (and all members of the family knew Holly had a BIG final that day) he told her that Holly and Drew had just walked into the woods. Karen, being a smart lady, instantly made the connection that A. Holly would never miss the final test to go hunting and B. the man could not be Drew, because she had just spoken to Drew a few minutes ago and he was over on the other side of the county trying to gain permission to hunt on the ggrandmother's land. Karen knew that someone else was taking Holly into the woods by process of elimination. In her mind, there was no time to waste. She told Clint to get the gun and go follow his sister! Clint, not understanding what the big deal was (and not knowing at that point that it could NOT be Drew) was probably thinking that it was a little stupid to chase Holly and Drew down with a gun, just for missing a test! While he's trying to connect the dots, the neighbor drives up, and he sees spilled coke and a puddle of blood. About the time "he finally gets it," his mom gets home, they run into the woods, and it is too late!

Ok, and someone pointed this out earlier and wish I could credit them, but can't remember. If Holly should have left at 7:30 and Clint didn't know anything else for several minutes I think(?) And then called Karen it would be close to 8:00. If IIRC Drew should of been at work by 8:00. If he was really hunting he would have been in the woods much earlier, before daybreak anyway. If he was stopped and not allowed wouldn't the call have come much earlier? 5 to 6 maybe? to as I seem to remember a report of some calls to try and straighten it out. I can't see them doing that at close to 8 if Drew was stopped from hunting much earlier. I guess its possible that when stopped he and his Dad may of just gone home and attempted to straighten it out later. I guess we won't know unless phone records are released.

 

[dejavoodoo64]

Above BBM..

EXACTLY!! Thanks for putting into words in half a sentence what i couldn't manage to accomplish in 3+ posts, 100+ words, and 3 posted photos! .this is exactly how i see it as well!

You're very welcome. The IV of coffee I have set up works wonders sometimes. :dance:

 

[SmoothOperator]

Thank you for your synopsis! Very interesting! Let me play "devil's advocate" for a moment! Suppose LE arrived on the scene and asked the family where they last saw Holly. If people were somewhat hysterical by this point, which I assume they were, can you not imagine Clint saying, "He drug her off into the woods!" As a family member, you'd want to convey urgency so the cops would not just stand there! I can't imagine him telling LE, "Well, my sister just went for a walk in the woods with some guy!" I think he didn't choose his verbs right, possibly due to the chaos. It sounds like by the time LE got there, the family had already gone partially into the woods and seen no sign of anyone and come back out again. JMHO, as always.

Of course that is a possibility, the hysteria that is.. but I must state that Clint Bobo's entire demeanor, actions, and even he, in his very own words has described himself feeling what could not be more of a complete opposite emotion/feeling/demeanor than that of hysteria..

Recall he at no time ever was worried or felt in any way whatsoever that his sister was in any type danger throughout the events of that morning.. he stayed under the firm belief that Holly was outside with her boyfriend, Drew.. he continued to firmly believe this even when his mother, who was very much in a state of hysterics, repeatedly told Clint, THAT IS NOT DREW OUTSIDE WITH YOUR SISTER!

Clint stills believes it is Drew.. he sees his sister and who believed to be was Drew walking towards the woods.. instead of opening that paned glass back door and simply saying, "hey Holly where y'all going? What are y'all doing? Hey aren't you supposed to be at school? ..mom says you are! "..instead of doing something IMO simple and sensical ..instead as he stands at the paned glass door, sees Holly and camo man walking towards the woods, he decides to call Holly's cell phone.. it rings 5 times and goes to voicemail.. then decides to call Drews cell phone. It too rings 5 times and goes to voicemail..

Clint states that this made him firmly believe it was Drew and that Holly was with Drew.. (many are still confused on why? ..but whatever) ..so, according to Clint he is still in no panic, zero worry mode.. Karen calls Clint while en route from the school.. Clint relays to mom he just saw Holly ..she and Drew walked back toward the woods.. Karen at this point appears to be at peak level of panic, while Clint could not be more calm, less worried ..KAREN DEMANDS THAT IT IS NOT DREW! SHE TELLS HER SON TO IMMEDIATELY GET A GUN AND GO AFTER HIS SISTER/CAMO MAN INTO THE WOODS! ..

Clint still believed it was Drew.. he calmly got the gun.. states that he walked out back and through the carport where Holly's car was still parked and at that point came upon a small pool/puddle of blood.. please understand that according to Clint, HE STILL DID NOT PANIC..he merely assumed the puddle of blood to have come from the turkey that was supposedly between the two kneeling silhouettes that Clint believed he'd earlier seen..

So, you see there was still no panic, nor worry, not only according to Clint's own words, but even louder speaking IMO are his actions that clearly represent a person who was not panicked, worried, or felt his sister to be in the least bit of danger...

From there after Clint sees the pool/puddle of blood he says that he was walking across the back property, with the loaded gun his mom insisted he take, heading toward the treeline that he'd just 10mins prior watched his sister and who he believed to be Drew walking toward.. according to Clint this is when the neighbor, Cathy Wise drove up.. Clint never goes to treeline or entered the woods that Holly/man walked and disappeared into.. he briefly speaks with the neighbor who tells him that her/her son had heard a scream from the Bobo property just less than 20mins prior at/around 7:40am.. its during this brief conversation that Clint says he could already hear the revving of the engines of the quickly approaching police vehicles down Swan Johnson..

Never once does Clint believe there was imminent danger.. never once does he panic.. he stays with the thought the man was Drew and that Holly was with her boyfriend, Drew(proven to Clint further by both of their cell phone ringing 5 times and going to voicemail) ..

So, while in theory yes, hysteria could indeed cause someone to misstate seeing Holly drug into the woods by a man.. but yet IMO there could not be a further feeling/demeanor from hysteria than that which Clint Bobo was of throughout the entirety of that mornings events.. not only that but Clint held firm to his belief that the man was his sisters boyfriend, Drew.. so that too in no way whatsoever can be reconciled with an initial statement of hysteria that he witnessed "a man"..an unknown man.. dragging off his sister into the woods..

Can we say inconsistent?? ..because not only inconsistent, but ever changing in many ways.. and I just cannot for the life of me understand that IF WHAT WE ARE BEING TOLD WERE FACTUAL AND ACCURATE EVENTS OF THAT MORNING...

THEN EXACTLY WHY IS NOTHING CONSISTENT.. WHY DOES NOTHING FIT AND WHY OH WHY IS EVERY SINGLE IOTA OF THAT MORNINGS EVENTS NONSENSICAL??

will we ever know? ..will Holly ever be found and laid to rest with the respect/dignity she deserves? Will those who harmed ever have justice brought down on them on behalf of this young woman's life being taken? ..i just don't know

ETA: and I do understand you are speaking from the view of playing devils advocate and that it is not necessarily what you feel is true/accurate

 

[wishuwerehere]

I cannot believe Karen didn’t mention the screams to Clint. That does not make ANY sense.

The screams are what put everyone not at the house in motion. Everyone seems to be reacting to the screams and/or info about the screams except Clint. Something is not right. It stinks.

jmo

 

[wishuwerehere]

Well sure, wasn't the initial statement of "dragged" changed to led? They may have clarified it with him. JMO

Yes, it was. But how long did "dragged" remain as the official description? In my previous post, I was insinuating that LE would immediately have follow-up questions to the statement of "dragged."

jmo

 

[Whisperer]

Well there is a paned door next to the garage that leads onto a porch or patio isn't there? I know I saw the kitchen window next to it in the video. Gotta go back and check myself.

Yeah if you like at middle of pool and up under the roof and see the door. Just go back a couple of pages if pic doesn't work. I copied it from the thread and don't know if you can.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5343/7066022769_2ef3c04332_b.jpg

Thanks deja..

Now if we look at the pic of Karen, she is pointing to the kitchen door and it is paneled. We were told that she points in the opposite direction as to where Clint saw them walk to the woods.

My question is..Is this area she is pointing to the woods across Swan Johnson. I used to think that in the first few days, then I was told NO, they went into the woods on the Bobo property. :banghead:

IMO, Clint could not see them from that window/door if they went into the woods on his property due to the garage door blocking his view.

 

[Whisperer]

I want photos of the house and the carport. I would like to see the layout of the house.
What was the Golden Retriever doing when all this was happening? I knew there had to be another dog because Clint refferred to the little dog as our "house" dog. I have to assume there was an outside dog also. I saw the Golden in the video that was posted last night.