TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #34

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i couldn't agree more. i posted a few weeks back about trying to focus on the most likely scenarios based on what we KNOW and i think you managed to say what i was thinking even more clearly. if she was abducted by aliens then there's no point sleuthing any further. if what happened to her is in line with the information we have then thinking of the most likely scenarios seems to make the most sense. as you said, they live in the middle of nowhere and even their middle of nowhere is in the middle of nowhere. imo she was taken by someone who had been watching her. it makes more sense than a) family/friends who have been vetted by le or b) the unlikelihood of a random kidnapper hunter happening upon her in the ten seconds it takes her to walk outside and get in her car. whoever did this knew her routine, likely thought she would be home alone (and thus they'd have time before anyone realized she was missing) but even when their plan went awry (clint being home) they had planned it out well enough that they didn't end up getting caught.

to me, that's where we start to look - people with at least a third degree (of kevin bacon) relationship to her who had the ability to be gone for periods of time (stalking her, watching her, etc) who could blend back into that small town environment without raising suspicions. i can't believe that list of people will be very long.

I agree masootz. In my estimation, there are two choices. One is you believe the facts as provided and you attempt to sleuth from there. Obviously, if there are 2 contradicting facts actually presented, you can hypothesize using one or the other facts, but I really don't see many contradicting facts that have been released, mainly because so little has been released by LE. The other option is to simply not believe the facts provided because, well because you simply don't believe them. If that's the case, I think it's difficult to sleuth at all because it becomes too easy to pick and choose the facts to fit a theory instead of finding a theory that fits the facts.

If someone within an extended circle of relation to Holly is considered, is there anything else that could further narrow down that list? Obviously to males that approximate the height/weight given. What else would narrow it down?
 
Glad people are discussing Holly's case in a useful way again. :)

Maybe it would be helpful to think along the lines of what we are missing (using current cues) vs what we know to be true?
Just so we can think outside of the box?

Ok, help me out here. I'm being too simple minded because my mind is stuck on the thought that what we're missing is the who. Help kick start me with some ideas of what you mean by what we are missing.
 
Oh think what we are missing is an accurate missing persons report from LE and any type of update with information about this case from them in over a year. I've always felt that LE was holding back info and also limiting what the Bobos can say. Remember all that "everything is not as it seems"? Well what is it then?

Her photo was put on trucks that travel all over and now I am reading here that these searches have been ongoing in the area. I am confused as to what they are looking for and where they expect to find it.

They haven't been able to find Holly so obviously their method of investigation isn't working.

I have been following this case since Holly disappeared and it still doesn't make any sense

Sent from my Rezound
 
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1893484.html
Help find Holly -- Bobo family partners with Elizabeth Smart

"(We ask that residents) be on the lookout for anyone who might be Holly," said Holly's mother, Karen Bobo. "And to look for anything or anyone that looks out of place or unusual."
"TBI reached out to (the Smart family)," said Bobo. "The first time I spoke with (Elizabeth) was the day of her abductor's sentencing in May 2011. Elizabeth told me what kept her going was the hope that one day she would be reunited with her family. (Elizabeth's father) Ed (Smart)'s advice was to keep the faith and get Holly's picture out in the media. I appreciate everything they are doing to keep Holly on everyone's mind."
"She came to Holly's high school," said Bobo. "We are very appreciative. And I appreciate Mr. Smart always taking the time to speak with me whenever I call him. I do sometimes call him for advice when things come up."
The Bobo family just mailed out 20,000 flyers with information on Holly's schedule to prompt residents to think about events in the days prior to her abduction. Bobo encourages residents to report anything unusual, even if they have already submitted the tip.

I wish Karen would've taken Mr. Smart's advice a year and half ago. Many of us asked over and over about Holly's schedule. How many times did we ask where did she hang out? What was her schedule like? If she had any part time jobs? Where she was the night before? Who her friends are? Acquaintances, etc etc etc *sigh*
 
I agree masootz. In my estimation, there are two choices. One is you believe the facts as provided and you attempt to sleuth from there. Obviously, if there are 2 contradicting facts actually presented, you can hypothesize using one or the other facts, but I really don't see many contradicting facts that have been released, mainly because so little has been released by LE. The other option is to simply not believe the facts provided because, well because you simply don't believe them. If that's the case, I think it's difficult to sleuth at all because it becomes too easy to pick and choose the facts to fit a theory instead of finding a theory that fits the facts.

If someone within an extended circle of relation to Holly is considered, is there anything else that could further narrow down that list? Obviously to males that approximate the height/weight given. What else would narrow it down?

well said. if we are to sleuth this, we have to do so with the information given (regardless of our personal beliefs) unless two pieces of information contradict each other, in which case we have to make a best estimate of which one is valid (often by weighing sources - reporter vs family member, first-hand account vs rumor). to do anything else is to end up exactly with what you said - picking and choosing facts to fit a theory. that said -

cb indicated he thought at some point the perp was holly's boyfriend. he stated he saw the person wearing camouflage so it's reasonable to expect he saw enough of the person to conclude they were roughly the same height/weight as her boyfriend. i'm not sure if he ever stated he conclusively saw the skin color or enough of the person to determine the age.

we know that the bobo house is secluded. we know that she was taken down a trail that was variously described as an area that would not be obvious to someone unfamiliar with the terrain. we know she exited her house to get into her car which would take less than a minute (to walk out of her house, unlock car, throw bags inside, get in car). we know she did not even get her bags in the car (as various items were found later) so whoever approached her had to have done so in an extremely small window of time (maybe thirty seconds - from the time she shut the door of the house until the time she approached her car). this fully indicates someone waiting for her.

we know her plan was to complete her normal week day routine, get up, talk on the phone, go to school, etc. we know the same for her family with perhaps the exception of cb. reports are variously that he was/wasn't planning to go hunting and it's reasonable to assume the perp thought she was the last one to leave. i'd be very interested in learning more about cb's usual routine. if in fact the perp was lying in wait, then why this particular morning as opposed to any other, unless he thought she was alone. if it was cb's normal routine to be out of the house early then it makes sense that the perp thought he was gone. if cb was always the last one gone then it makes little sense that the perp would try to grab her at home (knowing her gun carrying brother was inside if she screamed).

we don't know exactly what happened next, but we do have some clues. le was on the scene in a reasonable amount of time. neighbors heard a scream. cb saw holly headed towards the trail (variously reported as dragged, led, etc). there were a variety of calls to 911. it's reasonable to assume the perp did not plan for any of this - again, why kidnap someone in a remote part of town if you think there's a chance le will be on the scene within 20 minutes? that said, he wasn't caught that morning with her so it's reasonable to assume he had planned this well enough to avoid detection (alternate theory is that since the calls to 911 weren't reported as a kidnapping le might not have noticed him driving down the road with her - not sure i buy this though). it is almost certain he planned to remove her from the area otherwise the stealth and the planning make no sense. if he truly thought he'd be alone with her and just wanted to kill her or assault her why not do it at her car or force her back into her house, or at the very least do these things a hundred yards down the trail? within twenty minutes the perp had her entirely out of the area. that speaks of planning and forethought.

the only thing outside of the above that matters to me as far as coming up with an idea of the perpetrator is that no sign of her has been found in the past year. again, it speaks to someone who had carefully planned this out. if he killed her, he didn't do it anywhere near her home and he certainly didn't dump the body sloppily. if he still has her, he's obviously someone who blends in well. in either case, he's someone who was able to get away without being noticed long enough to stalk her, learn her routine, grab her, move her, hide her. that could easily be explained as a local who hunts (it's easy to tell friends/family you were out hunting but didn't catch anything and it also goes along with familiarity with the area and with wearing camouflage).

it could also be something entirely different but local hunter who had a familiarity with her and her family would be my best guess. probably a six foot tall, somewhat stocky white guy. could be 20 - 50 (unless i missed somewhere cb said he saw him well enough to guess an age). i'd definitely look at people who went to the same school as her, friends of her brother, friends of her boyfriend, people who had done work on the family's house (or had other reasons to be around the house in the months prior). essentially men who were in a position to notice her and be able to ascertain some level of knowledge about the family's routines.

just my 2 cents.
 
<snipped to address bolded part by me>


it could also be something entirely different but local hunter who had a familiarity with her and her family would be my best guess. probably a six foot tall, somewhat stocky white guy. could be 20 - 50 (unless i missed somewhere cb said he saw him well enough to guess an age). i'd definitely look at people who went to the same school as her, friends of her brother, friends of her boyfriend, people who had done work on the family's house (or had other reasons to be around the house in the months prior). essentially men who were in a position to notice her and be able to ascertain some level of knowledge about the family's routines.

just my 2 cents.


CB said the perp had a young voice.
 
What I meant was that sometimes it is a useful investigative tool to see what is NOT there. So...pay as much attention to what is NOT there, as what is.

For example: We recently had a case where the MP was known to have chewed tobacco constantly. What does it mean when we're following a trail that has no evidence of tobacco? Does it mean the person was not there? Does it mean they ran out of chew? Should we check convenience stores along that route of travel for purchases made? That sort of thing. Sometimes noticing strong habits that suddenly cease to exist can help point in new investigative directions. And that goes for missing persons- as well as possible suspects in MP crimes.

How does one even begin to investigate that route when we just recently found out about her schedule? We don't know much about Holly. Yes, it would be great if more information is shared by the family but so far it's taken over a year to let us know what her normal routine was. Investigating what she did NOT do is almost impossible unless the family comes forward.

:moo:
 
I instinctively feel, even more strongly as time passes by, that Holly was taken by someone local....someone young, who may have found this situation spiraling out of control.
There are many things about this abduction that are not standard, including the fact that we have a witness who saw the event unfold without realizing what was happening until it was too late to act (at least from what we've been told). Abductions are extremely snappy events...grab and go. But this one was not. We know that it took close to 30 minutes from the time Holly hung up her phone to the time Clint saw Holly walking into the woods. Shaving off a bit of time for Holly to put on her shoes, I would say this abduction lasted 20-25 minutes. That's insane.
This person knew the area and probably had a car that was not noticeable because of its familiarity. My best hunch is that this person is being protected by family, who may know or suspect his guilt....and perhaps helped cover for him.
I am not sure murder was the intent. That may be why LE has been so vigilant in insisting that Holly could be alive.
Whoever had her was in the area in the days following the abduction since an area that had already been searched eventually yielded what is commonly believed to have been Holly's phone.
Now we are left with deciphering motive and I can only see a few:
1. Revenge/Anger
2. A prank gone horribly wrong
3. Sexual (this could be due to rejection...or perversion...or any other related motive)
4. Instilling fear or attempting to silence
 
Oh think what we are missing is an accurate missing persons report from LE and any type of update with information about this case from them in over a year. I've always felt that LE was holding back info and also limiting what the Bobos can say. Remember all that "everything is not as it seems"? Well what is it then?

Her photo was put on trucks that travel all over and now I am reading here that these searches have been ongoing in the area. I am confused as to what they are looking for and where they expect to find it.

They haven't been able to find Holly so obviously their method of investigation isn't working.

I have been following this case since Holly disappeared and it still doesn't make any sense

Sent from my Rezound

No doubt the information coming from LE is scant. Regarding the BBM, I think LE always holds back information so that isn't anything to be concerned with. I haven't been on WS long, but that same complaint of LE has been lodged in nearly every case I have followed (Mickey Shunick, Brittney Wood, Kortne Stouffer, Holly Bobo and on and on) As I said earlier, I think LE has done a poor job of controlling the dissemination of information, whether from them or from the Bobo's, but it's a big jump from saying they're doing a poor job of handling information or even a poor job of investigating to something more evil if that's what you are hinting at.
 
How does one even begin to investigate that route when we just recently found out about her schedule? We don't know much about Holly. Yes, it would be great if more information is shared by the family but so far it's taken over a year to let us know what her normal routine was. Investigating what she did NOT do is almost impossible unless the family comes forward.

:moo:

the schedule was released to the general public. Correct? That does not mean that SAR or LE did not have her schedule before now.
 
well said. if we are to sleuth this, we have to do so with the information given (regardless of our personal beliefs) unless two pieces of information contradict each other, in which case we have to make a best estimate of which one is valid (often by weighing sources - reporter vs family member, first-hand account vs rumor). to do anything else is to end up exactly with what you said - picking and choosing facts to fit a theory. that said -

cb indicated he thought at some point the perp was holly's boyfriend. he stated he saw the person wearing camouflage so it's reasonable to expect he saw enough of the person to conclude they were roughly the same height/weight as her boyfriend. i'm not sure if he ever stated he conclusively saw the skin color or enough of the person to determine the age.

we know that the bobo house is secluded. we know that she was taken down a trail that was variously described as an area that would not be obvious to someone unfamiliar with the terrain. we know she exited her house to get into her car which would take less than a minute (to walk out of her house, unlock car, throw bags inside, get in car). we know she did not even get her bags in the car (as various items were found later) so whoever approached her had to have done so in an extremely small window of time (maybe thirty seconds - from the time she shut the door of the house until the time she approached her car). this fully indicates someone waiting for her.

we know her plan was to complete her normal week day routine, get up, talk on the phone, go to school, etc. we know the same for her family with perhaps the exception of cb. reports are variously that he was/wasn't planning to go hunting and it's reasonable to assume the perp thought she was the last one to leave. i'd be very interested in learning more about cb's usual routine. if in fact the perp was lying in wait, then why this particular morning as opposed to any other, unless he thought she was alone. if it was cb's normal routine to be out of the house early then it makes sense that the perp thought he was gone. if cb was always the last one gone then it makes little sense that the perp would try to grab her at home (knowing her gun carrying brother was inside if she screamed).

we don't know exactly what happened next, but we do have some clues. le was on the scene in a reasonable amount of time. neighbors heard a scream. cb saw holly headed towards the trail (variously reported as dragged, led, etc). there were a variety of calls to 911. it's reasonable to assume the perp did not plan for any of this - again, why kidnap someone in a remote part of town if you think there's a chance le will be on the scene within 20 minutes? that said, he wasn't caught that morning with her so it's reasonable to assume he had planned this well enough to avoid detection (alternate theory is that since the calls to 911 weren't reported as a kidnapping le might not have noticed him driving down the road with her - not sure i buy this though). it is almost certain he planned to remove her from the area otherwise the stealth and the planning make no sense. if he truly thought he'd be alone with her and just wanted to kill her or assault her why not do it at her car or force her back into her house, or at the very least do these things a hundred yards down the trail? within twenty minutes the perp had her entirely out of the area. that speaks of planning and forethought.

the only thing outside of the above that matters to me as far as coming up with an idea of the perpetrator is that no sign of her has been found in the past year. again, it speaks to someone who had carefully planned this out. if he killed her, he didn't do it anywhere near her home and he certainly didn't dump the body sloppily. if he still has her, he's obviously someone who blends in well. in either case, he's someone who was able to get away without being noticed long enough to stalk her, learn her routine, grab her, move her, hide her. that could easily be explained as a local who hunts (it's easy to tell friends/family you were out hunting but didn't catch anything and it also goes along with familiarity with the area and with wearing camouflage).

it could also be something entirely different but local hunter who had a familiarity with her and her family would be my best guess. probably a six foot tall, somewhat stocky white guy. could be 20 - 50 (unless i missed somewhere cb said he saw him well enough to guess an age). i'd definitely look at people who went to the same school as her, friends of her brother, friends of her boyfriend, people who had done work on the family's house (or had other reasons to be around the house in the months prior). essentially men who were in a position to notice her and be able to ascertain some level of knowledge about the family's routines.

just my 2 cents.

Regardless of how well CB saw the perp, I think your range of 20-50 would be a fairly safe bet. Personally, the range of mid-20's to mid-40's is what I was betting would be most likely. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Also, I just can't see someone staking out her residence over time in that area. Each time a perp goes to stake her house out involves a risk of being seen. I would start with people who knew she had a class at that time on that day personally. That would explain your question of why that day, namely it provided opportunity if they knew her schedule in advance of that morning. I would think that would limit the number of people significantly. I may know a friend is in med school or in undergraduate school, but that doesn't mean I know what time his/her classes are.

My guess is, and its purely a guess, is that the perp wasn't aware of CB being at the house. From a perp's perspective, it would just be too risky if you knew someone else was there and for all the perp knew was about to follow Holly out of the door. Also, regardless of which wording you want to use for the manner the perp took Holly to the woods, the one constant is it doesn't sound like the perp was running or rushing, so I highly doubt he knew he'd been spotted by CB. The perp knew Holly would be leaving her house in the morning. The fact that it would seem to me that the perp was more familiar with Holly's schedule than Clint's would cause me to want to possibly focus more on those who would be in Holly's extended circle but not in CB's extended circle.

As I see it, after having assaulted Holly, the perp isn't going to just stay there, particularly because she screamed. Rather, a perp is going to get away from the scene of the initial confrontation and take her somewhere where he is in more of a comfort zone, where he feels more comfortable that he can do what he's going to do without being seen. That's why I think this is more of a crime involving a sexual predator than say revenge or something of that sort. If it were some revenge theory or silencing someone, they would just do the crime at the first scene and leave ASAP and be done with it. Can anything be gleaned from where the various items were found to determine where this comfort zone might be or at least in what direction in would be? I will go back through my notes, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only confirmed piece of evidence has been the lunch box (or whatever word you want to use to describe it). I know the phone has been widely discussed but I never found any confirmation of it myself. The same with the duct tape. No doubt there was a piece of duct tape in a video but we have no idea if it's connected in any way. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'll go back to my notes.
 
What I meant was that sometimes it is a useful investigative tool to see what is NOT there. So...pay as much attention to what is NOT there, as what is.

For example: We recently had a case where the MP was known to have chewed tobacco constantly. What does it mean when we're following a trail that has no evidence of tobacco? Does it mean the person was not there? Does it mean they ran out of chew? Should we check convenience stores along that route of travel for purchases made? That sort of thing. Sometimes noticing strong habits that suddenly cease to exist can help point in new investigative directions. And that goes for missing persons- as well as possible suspects in MP crimes.

I'm following you now. My mind is just hitting a brick wall though without knowing more about Holly. Any thoughts on this case Oriah?
 
Regardless of how well CB saw the perp, I think your range of 20-50 would be a fairly safe bet. Personally, the range of mid-20's to mid-40's is what I was betting would be most likely. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Also, I just can't see someone staking out her residence over time in that area. Each time a perp goes to stake her house out involves a risk of being seen. I would start with people who knew she had a class at that time on that day personally. That would explain your question of why that day, namely it provided opportunity if they knew her schedule in advance of that morning. I would think that would limit the number of people significantly. I may know a friend is in med school or in undergraduate school, but that doesn't mean I know what time his/her classes are.

My guess is, and its purely a guess, is that the perp wasn't aware of CB being at the house. From a perp's perspective, it would just be too risky if you knew someone else was there and for all the perp knew was about to follow Holly out of the door. Also, regardless of which wording you want to use for the manner the perp took Holly to the woods, the one constant is it doesn't sound like the perp was running or rushing, so I highly doubt he knew he'd been spotted by CB. The perp knew Holly would be leaving her house in the morning. The fact that it would seem to me that the perp was more familiar with Holly's schedule than Clint's would cause me to want to possibly focus more on those who would be in Holly's extended circle but not in CB's extended circle.

As I see it, after having assaulted Holly, the perp isn't going to just stay there, particularly because she screamed. Rather, a perp is going to get away from the scene of the initial confrontation and take her somewhere where he is in more of a comfort zone, where he feels more comfortable that he can do what he's going to do without being seen. That's why I think this is more of a crime involving a sexual predator than say revenge or something of that sort. If it were some revenge theory or silencing someone, they would just do the crime at the first scene and leave ASAP and be done with it. Can anything be gleaned from where the various items were found to determine where this comfort zone might be or at least in what direction in would be? I will go back through my notes, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only confirmed piece of evidence has been the lunch box (or whatever word you want to use to describe it). I know the phone has been widely discussed but I never found any confirmation of it myself. The same with the duct tape. No doubt there was a piece of duct tape in a video but we have no idea if it's connected in any way. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'll go back to my notes.

reedus - thanks for the clarification about the age. i think we're on the same page with most of this. i agree with you (and may have been unclear previously) that the perp likely did not stake out her house other than that morning. you're right that it would be hard to do without being noticed and frankly probably pointless when there are easier ways to figure out her schedule. it's likely he did at least have an idea that her mom/dad would leave first so i'd guess someone with at least a vague idea of what they did for a living or when they tended to leave for work.

i agree also with the likelihood of it being someone she knew in a distant sort of way (someone in a class with her, someone who worked with/near her). it's unfortunately not that tough to get information out of people even if you have a casual relationship because most people aren't that guarded (a question like "so what do your parents do for a living?" seems innocuous on the surface but could provide all the information he needed to know when they'd leave for work). i wouldn't rule out someone who knows cb if cb was off schedule that day. someone who knows him might have thought he'd be out hunting that morning and perhaps he truly unexpectedly was not out hunting.

i'll have to look back but i thought they found a bag that had a camera in it (might be the same lunch bag you mentioned). no matter what the items were i agree that it either tells us the path he took her on (if she dropped the items) or places he felt comfortable enough to be around to fake the drops. you wouldn't go some place you've never been before to drop off the bag/purse/whatever of the victim of a crime you committed, you'd go somewhere you would blend in, where you wouldn't look suspicious, and you'd avail yourself of an out of the way location or a moment when no one was around to make the drop.
 
I instinctively feel, even more strongly as time passes by, that Holly was taken by someone local....someone young, who may have found this situation spiraling out of control.
There are many things about this abduction that are not standard, including the fact that we have a witness who saw the event unfold without realizing what was happening until it was too late to act (at least from what we've been told). Abductions are extremely snappy events...grab and go. But this one was not. We know that it took close to 30 minutes from the time Holly hung up her phone to the time Clint saw Holly walking into the woods. Shaving off a bit of time for Holly to put on her shoes, I would say this abduction lasted 20-25 minutes. That's insane.
This person knew the area and probably had a car that was not noticeable because of its familiarity. My best hunch is that this person is being protected by family, who may know or suspect his guilt....and perhaps helped cover for him.
I am not sure murder was the intent. That may be why LE has been so vigilant in insisting that Holly could be alive.
Whoever had her was in the area in the days following the abduction since an area that had already been searched eventually yielded what is commonly believed to have been Holly's phone.
Now we are left with deciphering motive and I can only see a few:
1. Revenge/Anger
2. A prank gone horribly wrong
3. Sexual (this could be due to rejection...or perversion...or any other related motive)
4. Instilling fear or attempting to silence

I know you said commonly believed Shefner, but I'm curious to know if that was ever substantiated. The phone was one thing I was keeping an eye out for in reading the different LE announcements, but I never found a confirmation that it was, in fact, her phone. I ask because I very well could have missed something.

Indeed, many things that aren't standard. I'm coming to think though that there is no such thing as a standard abduction. MOO is that the 3rd option is the most likely. I just don't think in the other three scenarios, a perp would take the risk of transporting Holly. They would have committed the crime there and gotten out of there. Just my thoughts.

I also agree that 20-25 minutes could be a good bit of time to be on the scene of the abduction, but I also recognize that getting PRECISE times is difficult from witnesses. I'm sure LE has been able to pin down some of the times more precisely from the phone calls. The closest we can get is JB heard a scream at about 7:40. The preciseness of that time can't be verified but LE would be able to hopefully pin down when JB's mom called KB. CB says he awoke at 7:50. Again, the calls between him and KB would help to verify the preciseness of those times. What I think is helpful regarding the amount of time spent at the scene by the perp is the statement from the neighbor when she arrived at the Bobo's that screams had been heard 15-20 minutes earlier. By that point, the perp and Holly were already into the woods. Though we don't know how long prior he had entered the woods, I think its safe to say they had to have entered the woods at least minutes, if not 5 minutes before the neighbor arrived. That means the perp would have been there for 10 minutes, give or take a couple minutes. Still quite a bit of time if you ask me, but if he didn't have reason to believe anyone else was home, he might not have felt rushed. Also, while I don't think we've ever been told exactly everything that was taken with them, we know several items at least were taken. So between gaining control over Holly(likely by assaulting her causing the blood), gathering Holly and her belongings up, making sure nothing is being left behind that might incriminate him and then walking to the woods, I don't know if 10 minutes would be that far out of line.
 
reedus - thanks for the clarification about the age. i think we're on the same page with most of this. i agree with you (and may have been unclear previously) that the perp likely did not stake out her house other than that morning. you're right that it would be hard to do without being noticed and frankly probably pointless when there are easier ways to figure out her schedule. it's likely he did at least have an idea that her mom/dad would leave first so i'd guess someone with at least a vague idea of what they did for a living or when they tended to leave for work.

i agree also with the likelihood of it being someone she knew in a distant sort of way (someone in a class with her, someone who worked with/near her). it's unfortunately not that tough to get information out of people even if you have a casual relationship because most people aren't that guarded (a question like "so what do your parents do for a living?" seems innocuous on the surface but could provide all the information he needed to know when they'd leave for work). i wouldn't rule out someone who knows cb if cb was off schedule that day. someone who knows him might have thought he'd be out hunting that morning and perhaps he truly unexpectedly was not out hunting.

i'll have to look back but i thought they found a bag that had a camera in it (might be the same lunch bag you mentioned). no matter what the items were i agree that it either tells us the path he took her on (if she dropped the items) or places he felt comfortable enough to be around to fake the drops. you wouldn't go some place you've never been before to drop off the bag/purse/whatever of the victim of a crime you committed, you'd go somewhere you would blend in, where you wouldn't look suspicious, and you'd avail yourself of an out of the way location or a moment when no one was around to make the drop.

Oh don't get me wrong, I was really just reiterating it. I think we were on the same page. And I only gave my thoughts on the likely age to let you know I was kind of thinking the same thing. I think the camera was referenced more recently in July 2012 by DB as an item she would have had with her, along with her keys and pink purse. A lunch box/bag (there was some confusion over what it's actually called) was found. I'm not aware of anything else that has been confirmed.
 
the schedule was released to the general public. Correct? That does not mean that SAR or LE did not have her schedule before now.

Very true nurse. Any thoughts or suggestions or lines of thought on what us here could be looking into though, with the understanding that we don't have nearly 1/100th of the information LE has? I'm just stumped as to what i can be hashing out, myself, as to evidence that isn't there. I agree it's a good investigative tool and LE has the type of information that would be useful in this line of thinking, I'm just stumped myself as I peck away at a keyboard. Any suggestions or thoughts? TIA
 
the schedule was released to the general public. Correct? That does not mean that SAR or LE did not have her schedule before now.

I was replying to Oriah's suggestion that we perhaps look at what is NOT there. I'm assuming if she posted it here she meant us (??)

If SAR and LE had that information, we the public weren't privy to it so we can't really help when we don't know.

Make sense?
 
Oh don't get me wrong, I was really just reiterating it. I think we were on the same page. And I only gave my thoughts on the likely age to let you know I was kind of thinking the same thing. I think the camera was referenced more recently in July 2012 by DB as an item she would have had with her, along with her keys and pink purse. A lunch box/bag (there was some confusion over what it's actually called) was found. I'm not aware of anything else that has been confirmed.

one other interesting point that you've touched on a bit - if the perp was with her for five to ten minutes before leading her into the woods, why wouldn't she have yelled for her brother? we assume it was her screaming at some point, so why not scream for help from him since he was maybe a hundred feet away in the house? the only thing i can think is she was afraid for his safety but i can't help but think here's a young, fairly fit guy with guns in the house and it appears she didn't yell for him? also, has cb ever stated his view of events as regards her scream? has he acknowledged hearing the scream? from my reading of events it sounds to me like cb was confused as to what was going on (understandably) until le was on their way but if he could hear the perp's voice clearly enough to discern that he sounded young, what did he make of hearing his sister's scream?
 
I was replying to Oriah's suggestion that we perhaps look at what is NOT there. I'm assuming if she posted it here she meant us (??)

If SAR and LE had that information, we the public weren't privy to it so we can't really help when we don't know.

Make sense?

I thought she was referring to SAR searches in general in relation to what is there and what is not there..

but yes, once the general public knows a bit more we may be able to chip in on that good idea of Oriah's. As for the family and when they choose to share it with the public: that is what I was addressing really.

hth.
 
one other interesting point that you've touched on a bit - if the perp was with her for five to ten minutes before leading her into the woods, why wouldn't she have yelled for her brother? we assume it was her screaming at some point, so why not scream for help from him since he was maybe a hundred feet away in the house? the only thing i can think is she was afraid for his safety but i can't help but think here's a young, fairly fit guy with guns in the house and it appears she didn't yell for him? also, has cb ever stated his view of events as regards her scream? has he acknowledged hearing the scream? from my reading of events it sounds to me like cb was confused as to what was going on (understandably) until le was on their way but if he could hear the perp's voice clearly enough to discern that he sounded young, what did he make of hearing his sister's scream?

Regarding Holly screaming to her brother, first, she did scream something and second, I would suspect that the perp initially attacked her, causing that initial scream, and during that initial attack the perp either struck or stabbed her, causing her to fear for her life as much or more than CB's, thus causing her to be silent.

Regarding CB, I saw nothing that came straight from his mouth saying he heard or did not hear the scream. By all accounts given by the family though, he was sleeping at the time of the scream itself and never heard it. I imagine the scream set off the dog barking, which is what ultimately woke CB.

I have seen it referenced a couple times that CB heard voices, but I did not read that in any of the articles and I didn't see it in any of the family's statements. It is absolutely possible that I simply missed it or it was in an article that I wasn't able to pull up any longer. Do you know if CB hearing voices came from MSM, the family or LE? I'm just trying to get a grasp on how confirmed that is. TIA
 
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