TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #34

[~n/t~]

I thought she was referring to SAR searches in general in relation to what is there and what is not there..

but yes, once the general public knows a bit more we may be able to chip in on that good idea of Oriah's. As for the family and when they choose to share it with the public: that is what I was addressing really.

hth.

I think many of us have good ideas if only we knew a little more.

 

[shefner]

I know you said commonly believed Shefner, but I'm curious to know if that was ever substantiated. The phone was one thing I was keeping an eye out for in reading the different LE announcements, but I never found a confirmation that it was, in fact, her phone. I ask because I very well could have missed something.

Indeed, many things that aren't standard. I'm coming to think though that there is no such thing as a standard abduction. MOO is that the 3rd option is the most likely. I just don't think in the other three scenarios, a perp would take the risk of transporting Holly. They would have committed the crime there and gotten out of there. Just my thoughts.

I also agree that 20-25 minutes could be a good bit of time to be on the scene of the abduction, but I also recognize that getting PRECISE times is difficult from witnesses. I'm sure LE has been able to pin down some of the times more precisely from the phone calls. The closest we can get is JB heard a scream at about 7:40. The preciseness of that time can't be verified but LE would be able to hopefully pin down when JB's mom called KB. CB says he awoke at 7:50. Again, the calls between him and KB would help to verify the preciseness of those times. What I think is helpful regarding the amount of time spent at the scene by the perp is the statement from the neighbor when she arrived at the Bobo's that screams had been heard 15-20 minutes earlier. By that point, the perp and Holly were already into the woods. Though we don't know how long prior he had entered the woods, I think its safe to say they had to have entered the woods at least minutes, if not 5 minutes before the neighbor arrived. That means the perp would have been there for 10 minutes, give or take a couple minutes. Still quite a bit of time if you ask me, but if he didn't have reason to believe anyone else was home, he might not have felt rushed. Also, while I don't think we've ever been told exactly everything that was taken with them, we know several items at least were taken. So between gaining control over Holly(likely by assaulting her causing the blood), gathering Holly and her belongings up, making sure nothing is being left behind that might incriminate him and then walking to the woods, I don't know if 10 minutes would be that far out of line.

reedus, thank you for your observations. No, it has never been verified that Holly's phone was located on Easter. However, that has been generally assumed. We know that some evidence was found that day because that was verified and we know that massive community searches were ceased that evening. Yes, there have been searches....but the type of searches we saw before that day never resumed.
On the morning of the crime, Holly ended her phone call around 7:30....and wasn't seen going into the woods until just before 8:00. That's a lifetime.

Abductions to tend to have similarities. I would suggest that someone try to find another outside abduction that took 20 minutes...even 10 minutes. That does not happen. Ever. Some are saying that this abduction took so long because the perp thought he had all the time in the world because he thought he was alone with the victim. But how could an observant criminal presume this...since Clint's car was right there?

I think this crime is a combo of 3 motives. A person(s) who is angry...perhaps he has been rejected by Holly in some real or imagined way. A person who feels frustrated and wants control. A person who desires Holly sexually and wants simply to force her to talk or acknowledge him and his desire.

I think Holly exited the home and was startled by this individual that she knew, even if not well. She dropped her soda....and said, "Crap, you scared the heck outta me!" He may have revealed a knife or weapon as he realized this was going to be the only way to get her to go with him. She may have screamed and tried to reason with him. He may have cut her by accident...or she cut her lip when she dropped the soda. We can't be sure but blood was there and the mouth is full of capillaries that bleed easily and profusely, even with a small cut. I imagine she held her books and/or lunchbag closely in a defensive measure. Maybe she dropped something and he bent down to pick it up for her...and this is when Clint was looking outside and thinks they are leaning over a turkey kill. I think Holly may have felt she could "talk him down" if she went with him willingly instead of resisting any further.

However it went, it was an eternity in the scope of outdoor abductions...even if we consider the seclusion of the area. I can't help but think the perp knew Clint was inside and he didn't care. This shows me he knew Clint and his nature.

I have been following this case since day one and have been very disappointed in TBI and local LE. I am not one to bash them....LE has a tough job to do. But this case has been botched from moment one.
The two BIGGEST mistakes in my view:
1. NO ROADBLOCKS...which were needed immediately
2. COMMUNITY VOLUNTEERS....searching from the beginning.
And I don't mean just a measurable amount of volunteers. There were
hundreds. How could you ever secure a crime scene with that many
untrained citizens?
I believe the perp was among them.

 

[reedus23]

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa...217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17

On the other train of thought of RSO's, I'm sure it's been discussed, but taking a look at Terry Britt's address in relation to some of the early activity and searches struck me. I couldn't get it to show up when adding it to Holly's map above, but I put in Terry Britt's address on Jeanette Holladay. It was interesting to see how the route between the Bobo's and Britt's residence almost mirrors the general direction that a majority of the earlier searches were conducted. In fact, instead of following the recommended route google maps gives, one could make a right onto Gooch Road (where the lunch box was found) then a right or a left on Horny Head Creek Road takes you to Jeanette Holladay, essentially going home the back way.

 

[Frogzilla]

Straight from the horses mouth about hearing a voice(s)- (only part of this interview was made available to the public. This is only a part of that part. Maybe somebody else knows where to find the whole interview.) http://yourlisten.com/channel/content/16901204/Bobo_Family_Open_Line_Aug_11
I could only find an audio version of the Open Line interview from last year.
The most interesting parts of this interview are when CB states he cannot talk about the events of that morning (this has always begged the question as to why give a story when you are saying that you cannot tell the story?) and when KB says that she started calling 911 several times before CB was aware of what happened. That has always perplexed me because CB is the one relaying info to her. Something has always been amiss here.

 

[reedus23]

reedus, thank you for your observations. No, it has never been verified that Holly's phone was located on Easter. However, that has been generally assumed. We know that some evidence was found that day because that was verified and we know that massive community searches were ceased that evening. Yes, there have been searches....but the type of searches we saw before that day never resumed.
On the morning of the crime, Holly ended her phone call around 7:30....and wasn't seen going into the woods until just before 8:00. That's a lifetime.

Abductions to tend to have similarities. I would suggest that someone try to find another outside abduction that took 20 minutes...even 10 minutes. That does not happen. Ever. Some are saying that this abduction took so long because the perp thought he had all the time in the world because he thought he was alone with the victim. But how could an observant criminal presume this...since Clint's car was right there?

I think this crime is a combo of 3 motives. A person(s) who is angry...perhaps he has been rejected by Holly in some real or imagined way. A person who feels frustrated and wants control. A person who desires Holly sexually and wants simply to force her to talk or acknowledge him and his desire.

I think Holly exited the home and was startled by this individual that she knew, even if not well. She dropped her soda....and said, "Crap, you scared the heck outta me!" He may have revealed a knife or weapon as he realized this was going to be the only way to get her to go with him. She may have screamed and tried to reason with him. He may have cut her by accident...or she cut her lip when she dropped the soda. We can't be sure but blood was there and the mouth is full of capillaries that bleed easily and profusely, even with a small cut. I imagine she held her books and/or lunchbag closely in a defensive measure. Maybe she dropped something and he bent down to pick it up for her...and this is when Clint was looking outside and thinks they are leaning over a turkey kill. I think Holly may have felt she could "talk him down" if she went with him willingly instead of resisting any further.

However it went, it was an eternity in the scope of outdoor abductions...even if we consider the seclusion of the area. I can't help but think the perp knew Clint was inside and he didn't care. This shows me he knew Clint and his nature.

I have been following this case since day one and have been very disappointed in TBI and local LE. I am not one to bash them....LE has a tough job to do. But this case has been botched from moment one.
The two BIGGEST mistakes in my view:
1. NO ROADBLOCKS...which were needed immediately
2. COMMUNITY VOLUNTEERS....searching from the beginning.
And I don't mean just a measurable amount of volunteers. There were
hundreds. How could you ever secure a crime scene with that many
untrained citizens?
I believe the perp was among them.

Thanks Shefner. I have to say, you put into words much of what I was envisioning. The can certainly see the dropping of the books leading to them bending over to pick them up. My gut had told me the perp stabbed her, causing her to double over, and as the perp bends over with her, it created the appearance that they are bending over looking at a turkey. But your scenario makes as much or more sense than what I thought.

I agree that 20 minutes is a lengthy time to be at the initial scene. I also understand how 10 minutes can be said to be a long time. Personally, while I don't think the perp thought he had all the time in the world, I also don't think he felt rushed and 10 minutes, while pushing it, doesn't seem implausible to me. I think the thing I was hoping to convey was that when witnesses are giving times, they are giving their best estimates as to what time it was, but by no means are they exact. So when I hear JB say he heard a scream at 7:40, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the exact time was actually 7:43. And when they say his mom, CW, got to the Bobo's just before 8:00, I wouldn't be surprised if the exact time was 7:54. That's why I was saying hopefully LE was able to pin down some of the times a little more accurately based on the telephone calls.

Regarding the rest, no argument from me. There's not even that many roads in the area that would need blocking off, so it's not a question of man power. And yes, not just 100's but numbers exceed 1000 initially and it didn't seem like LE was managing it well at all. I think they were overwhelmed by the moment and should have but didn't know how to control matters.

 

[reedus23]

Straight from the horses mouth about hearing a voice(s)- (only part of this interview was made available to the public. This is only a part of that part. Maybe somebody else knows where to find the whole interview.) http://yourlisten.com/channel/content/16901204/Bobo_Family_Open_Line_Aug_11
I could only find an audio version of the Open Line interview from last year.
The most interesting parts of this interview are when CB states he cannot talk about the events of that morning (this has always begged the question as to why give a story when you are saying that you cannot tell the story?) and when KB says that she started calling 911 several times before CB was aware of what happened. That has always perplexed me because CB is the one relaying info to her. Something has always been amiss here.

Thanks. I'll have to listen again when I get home and have speakers. Thanks though!!!!

 

[masootz]

Regarding Holly screaming to her brother, first, she did scream something and second, I would suspect that the perp initially attacked her, causing that initial scream, and during that initial attack the perp either struck or stabbed her, causing her to fear for her life as much or more than CB's, thus causing her to be silent.

Regarding CB, I saw nothing that came straight from his mouth saying he heard or did not hear the scream. By all accounts given by the family though, he was sleeping at the time of the scream itself and never heard it. I imagine the scream set off the dog barking, which is what ultimately woke CB.

I have seen it referenced a couple times that CB heard voices, but I did not read that in any of the articles and I didn't see it in any of the family's statements. It is absolutely possible that I simply missed it or it was in an article that I wasn't able to pull up any longer. Do you know if CB hearing voices came from MSM, the family or LE? I'm just trying to get a grasp on how confirmed that is. TIA

i'm not sure where him hearing voices came from, but i'm pretty sure it was an interview he did for a tv show (don't have my notes with me but i'll find the link). i don't understand how a neighbor would hear a scream clearly and loudly enough to prompt him/her to call kb but cb would have slept through it, although something woke him (dogs barking?). i'm not doubting his story, just wondering about the nature of the scream the neighbor(s) heard.

i also don't know that it took the perp ten minutes to get her walking into the woods. i believe it's exactly what you said - different pieces of the story have different timings, based on everything from clocks sets a few minutes apart, to people trying to guess when something happened based on their recollection, etc. i'd be surprised if the incident at her car took more than a minute or two except that various versions of the story say that cb heard voices, called his mom, looked outside again and still saw them....the thing about muggings, kidnappings, etc is that the perp has the advantage of the surprise. it takes the victim a second to realize what's going on. losing that advantage is a big risk. even if he thought he had all the time in the world why risk her being able to collect her thoughts, come up with a plan, and escape? i'd guess, similar to shefner's guess, that he surprised her, she reacted, he struck her causing her to bleed - but all of that takes maybe 30 seconds. what in the world was going on for the next five to ten minutes while cb saw them outside? ugh, nothing in this case makes any sense.

 

[shefner]

We have heard very muddied stories regarding the neighbor and the scream...We even heard for a while that she didn't hear the scream but her son heard it and told her to call 911. Then she decided to drive over there.

I live one street off Main in my town. But I have lived in the country before and I can assure you that you often cannot tell where sounds are coming from. I lived in Madison Country, just next to the Tennessee line...such a beautiful but rural area. I could sometimes hear children screaming in play but couldn't tell you if that came from the north or south side of our home. I could hear trucks rumbling, animals prowling...all kinds of things. But it was tough to pinpoint where those sounds were originating.

The fact that the neighbor said she heard the scream from that distance and was concerned enough to drive over, while Clint says he never heard a scream and he was just feet away, has always been troubling to me.

 

[reedus23]

I understand where CB not hearing the screams would make one scratch his/her head, but for whatever reason it never really bothered me. My entire family gets up, showers in my bathroom, gets dressed in my bedroom with lights being turned on and I don't wake up. The second the dog barks though, for whatever reason, I'm up and at 'em. For whatever reason, some things can rouse us from sleep while other things don't.

I did have a question for you Shefner, and now is when I start feeling bad because I'm new to the case and I read back through the threads so I wouldn't have to always ask, but was there ever any confirmed statement that it was the mom, not the son, that heard the scream. Here's what I noted regarding the scream. It was originally reported that a neighbor heard the scream (LE never indicated which neighbor). A later statement by LE stated the neighbor did not SEE the abduction but heard it. Subsequently, it was told that the neighbor that heard the scream was JB, who is the son. The son then told his mother, CW, who called KB and later went to the Bobo's house. So as I read through the news reports, I never saw any inconsistency in who heard the scream. I was under the understanding that later reports only clarified which neighbor it was that heard the scream, namely the son.

 

[reedus23]

We have heard very muddied stories regarding the neighbor and the scream...We even heard for a while that she didn't hear the scream but her son heard it and told her to call 911. Then she decided to drive over there.

I live one street off Main in my town. But I have lived in the country before and I can assure you that you often cannot tell where sounds are coming from. I lived in Madison Country, just next to the Tennessee line...such a beautiful but rural area. I could sometimes hear children screaming in play but couldn't tell you if that came from the north or south side of our home. I could hear trucks rumbling, animals prowling...all kinds of things. But it was tough to pinpoint where those sounds were originating.

The fact that the neighbor said she heard the scream from that distance and was concerned enough to drive over, while Clint says he never heard a scream and he was just feet away, has always been troubling to me.

Just in follow up, the accounts I read said son heard the scream, son told mom. Mom called KB and spoke to KB's secretary. KB's secretary told KB and KB asked the secretary to ask CW (the mom) to go check out the house. I don't know if that changes anything, because the son heard the scream from a distance still.

 

[reedus23]

i'm not sure where him hearing voices came from, but i'm pretty sure it was an interview he did for a tv show (don't have my notes with me but i'll find the link). i don't understand how a neighbor would hear a scream clearly and loudly enough to prompt him/her to call kb but cb would have slept through it, although something woke him (dogs barking?). i'm not doubting his story, just wondering about the nature of the scream the neighbor(s) heard.

i also don't know that it took the perp ten minutes to get her walking into the woods. i believe it's exactly what you said - different pieces of the story have different timings, based on everything from clocks sets a few minutes apart, to people trying to guess when something happened based on their recollection, etc. i'd be surprised if the incident at her car took more than a minute or two except that various versions of the story say that cb heard voices, called his mom, looked outside again and still saw them....the thing about muggings, kidnappings, etc is that the perp has the advantage of the surprise. it takes the victim a second to realize what's going on. losing that advantage is a big risk. even if he thought he had all the time in the world why risk her being able to collect her thoughts, come up with a plan, and escape? i'd guess, similar to shefner's guess, that he surprised her, she reacted, he struck her causing her to bleed - but all of that takes maybe 30 seconds. what in the world was going on for the next five to ten minutes while cb saw them outside? ugh, nothing in this case makes any sense.

The unknown rarely makes sense but more times than not, when the answers are found, I have a "Duh" moment as the answer was right in front of my eyes and usually was more straight forward than what I envisioned. The simple fact is it took however long it took, whether it was because the perp wasn't rushed, because he knew of CB's behavior, because it took that long to gain her compliance and understanding of the situation or because everyone's clock is off causing the time at the scene to actually be much less.

 

[~n/t~]

I understand where CB not hearing the screams would make one scratch his/her head, but for whatever reason it never really bothered me. My entire family gets up, showers in my bathroom, gets dressed in my bedroom with lights being turned on and I don't wake up. The second the dog barks though, for whatever reason, I'm up and at 'em. For whatever reason, some things can rouse us from sleep while other things don't.

I did have a question for you Shefner, and now is when I start feeling bad because I'm new to the case and I read back through the threads so I wouldn't have to always ask, but was there ever any confirmed statement that it was the mom, not the son, that heard the scream. Here's what I noted regarding the scream. It was originally reported that a neighbor heard the scream (LE never indicated which neighbor). A later statement by LE stated the neighbor did not SEE the abduction but heard it. Subsequently, it was told that the neighbor that heard the scream was JB, who is the son. The son then told his mother, CW, who called KB and later went to the Bobo's house. So as I read through the news reports, I never saw any inconsistency in who heard the scream. I was under the understanding that later reports only clarified which neighbor it was that heard the scream, namely the son.

I apologize for jumping in here because I know this question wasn't addressed to me.

The original story was that a woman heard the scream. It was then changed to the neighbour's son hearing it and told his mom to go check on the Bobo's.

Karen Anne who is a member here, saw an interview and it was a woman being interviewed who said SHE heard the scream. That was the original version.

If Karen Anne logs in, she can confirm it because I distinctly remembering it was a woman and was quite surprised when we were told that it was the neighbour's son. Whether or not the scream did happen or who heard it makes a difference it this case, I don't know. I think it does.

 

[shefner]

I would love to see an interview with the neighbor! I have never seen it....I hope there is a link available.

 

[~n/t~]

I would love to see an interview with the neighbor! I have never seen it....I hope there is a link available.

We tried but no luck.

 

[sarx]

I've been away from Holly's thread for some time, and all I can say is, "wow". There's a lot of, ummm, "stuff" to go through.

It seems like (and I could be totally wrong) at first glance, that the same stuff is just be re-hashed over and over a year and a half later.

What do we have to work with here? There must be enough pieces that can aid us in some way that we can help make a difference in this case.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The original version of events was that the woman who lives a house over heard a scream and called HB's mom. That's how I remember first hearing it for what it's worth.

Also I remember hearing that the same woman's son lives in a trailer on her property. It seems to me that much later in the case, the son was inserted into the story as someone who drove up the Bobo driveway and detained Clint in some way.

Me no like grown men who live in trailers on their mother's property. I'm more of a city girl I guess.

 

[shefner]

I've been away from Holly's thread for some time, and all I can say is, "wow". There's a lot of, ummm, "stuff" to go through.

It seems like (and I could be totally wrong) at first glance, that the same stuff is just be re-hashed over and over a year and a half later.

What do we have to work with here? There must be enough pieces that can aid us in some way that we can help make a difference in this case.

Yes, sarx, it is the same thing, round and round. Nothing new. We have some pieces to the puzzle but not enough to get an idea of the picture.

After 17 months, we don't even have the 911 calls. This is the reason I try to stay away from Holly's case....the frustration level is enormous.

 

[sarx]

How about other cases that might match with hers over the last 5-10 years? Anything there?

 

[cluciano63]

How about other cases that might match with hers over the last 5-10 years? Anything there?

I don't think there are many cases like this, having an adult witness. Also, in the cases of other missing women, without a witness, it is difficult to say if the circumstances were similar. I am also kind of leaning toward Holly knowing her abductor in some way, on some level.

There are plenty of missing women, especially in TN, but many have POI's in the shape of exes, or else they headed out someplace and never returned. So it is almost impossible, IMO, to try to determine a pattern that would include Holly.

 

[sarx]

Even without witnesses though, there could be similarities found. Girls who disappeared from their homes or near their homes?

Other cases where items were found in the surrounding miles?