TN - Joann, 31, & Adrienne Bain, 14, Whiteville, 27 April 2012 - #5

[Ghostwheel]

Many people need to go back for closure, for a sense of normalcy, for a reality check. There is no one size fits all, and some people can never step foot into the place where they lost a loved one, but I don't think it is unusual for them to have a chance to be in their own beds, to see their moms belongings the way they were. The deaths are probably very surreal for them, with some guidance/counseling available, it may be very important for them to go home and process what happened. Say their goodbyes etc...

When and if it is too stressful for them to be there they can always leave. Forcing them to go from captivity to a "new home" could continue to make them feel out of control and like their lives are being dictated to them. MOO

I can respect that perspective. It is even possible that the house holds no bad feelings for them if either the killings did not take place there or they do not know that the killings took place there. For all we know, they left the house in JB's car as if it were another school day and things only went weird for them at the location the car was found.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Really? We have a board full of threads, and quite a few with people confessing to all kinds of horrible things. Confessing doesn't make someone mentally incompetent.

How many confessed in a non-custodial interview?

 

[jjenny]

How many confessed in a non-custodial interview?

I don't count them.
There are people who confess without even being suspects, sometimes years later. Confessing doesn't make someone mentally incompetent.

 

[Bystander66]

Do you have a link to where it says TM planned this for two or three months? I missed that.

BTW, Mississippi law states that:
(2) The killing of a human being without the authority of law by any means or in any manner shall be capital murder in the following cases:

(e) When done with or without any design to effect death, by any person engaged in the commission of the crime of rape, burglary, kidnapping, arson, robbery, sexual battery, unnatural intercourse with any child under the age of twelve (12), or nonconsensual unnatural intercourse with mankind, or in any attempt to commit such felonies;

http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/97/003/0019.htm

BBM
Please note that it is by any person engaged in kidnapping, so even if she had not been anywhere near JB or AB, or had no knowledge of the murders, she would still be charged with murder if she admitted to being part of the kidnapping.

I am not saying she did not witness the murder, only that by MS law, if she was involved in a kidnapping and a killing occurred, she would have to be charged with murder.

Hi, Ghostwheel. I had to go back and check, but they were arrested in Hardemann County, TN. I think that is where they will be tried. JB and AB were both killed in TN (in the garage).

 

[Considering]

IDEA, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, governs how states provide special education to eligible children. Qualifications for disabilities vary somewhat from state to state. However, no one is eligible for special education because they do not want to listen or do not want to attend school. A children has to have a disability to qualify for special education (and to receive a special education diploma) and related services. One can be emotionally or behaviorally impaired, mentally handicapped (could range from educable mentally disabled to profound mentally disabled), learning disabled, speech/language impaired, etc., and and in some states, the Gifted and Talented programs are under the special education "umbrella."

 

[HeavenLeigh]

wow, just wow.
This family is just a mess. How could GB have turned a blind eye to the odd relationships going on. From the sounds of this they hated AM and possibly their mother. This son seemed to have forgiveness and no blame towards the father for whatever had happened 16 yrs ago. Odd
JMO

see my problem is "birds of a feather...flock together"
I find all this family dynamics beyond far out there and wacky.

I'm a LONG time reader but just joined today. Thank you to everyone who contributes to the cases. I come here for up-to-date news. I read info here BEFORE I see it on TV (if at all).

I do believe JMII is being sincere in all of his interviews. It has to hurt to know your little brother caused such an horrific event & frightening being shoved into the media through no fault of your own.

Watching the video of JMII raised some ??'s for me....
He's 43 y/o & said 'about 16 years ago, they came to Cherokee County to live with his mother's brother. "That's when I parted ways with the family," says Johnny.'
He would have been 27. Did the whole family (even as adults) follow when the parents moved around? That just struck me as odd.

I wonder did he get the scar on his head from AM?

I am glad the father-son reunion came out of this otherwise heartbreaking crime. Hopefully the mother stays in jail/prison & they can spend time together w/o AM & MM. It's sad to think that a person was so evil his own family don't want to bury him. I TOTALLY agree w/ them & do not blame them but something about it makes me sad.


I'm with some of you in thinking GB & JB had to have known AM was a loose cannon. If they were in one another's lives for as long as been mentioned I find it hard to believe AM could have stayed in control each & every time he was around them. Something is amiss with that story.

As parents our first obligation is to our children. After the allegations (proven or not) of sexual misconduct there is NO WAY on this earth that AM would have such an active role in my children's lives. Even if he/she was blood kin! Good parents do not allow their children to be exposed!
I would not care whose toes I stepped on or whose feelings I hurt when it comes to protecting my children! Why take the chance? Better safe than sorry. IF the person had to be around for reunions, chance run-ins or whatever by child would not be out of my sight!

As the poster I quoted said, "birds of a feather...flock together"

 

[SoBeCzar]

But yet she helped plan this for two or three months ahead of the murders and kidnappings. She's been charged with two counts of murders, not an accomplice to the murders. So I don't think this was a big surprise to her, as the plan was to kidnap the younger girls and JB and AB were taken to the garage to be murdered, but we'll see.

We don't know how long the kidnapping was planned. The date on the affidavit appears to be a typo.
She has to be charged with murder as she was involved in the kidnapping and when someone dies during the commish of a crime it is the law that they are charged with murder.
I am not putting an opinion of TM out there just posting what I know.

 

[Bystander66]

Here we go.....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...aying-suspect-adam-mayes-charged-with-murder/

Court officials in Tennessee say first-degree murder charges have been filed against the wife of Adam Mayes, the man suspected of killing of Jo Ann Bain and her teenage daughter and fleeing with her two younger girls.

The charges were filed Wednesday in Bolivar, Tenn., against Teresa Mayes. The Guntown, Miss., woman was charged a day earlier with kidnapping.

 

[Ghostwheel]

IDEA, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, governs how states provide special education to eligible children. Qualifications for disabilities vary somewhat from state to state. However, no one is eligible for special education because they do not want to listen or do not want to attend school. A children has to have a disability to qualify for special education (and to receive a special education diploma) and related services. One can be emotionally or behaviorally impaired, mentally handicapped (could range from educable mentally disabled to profound mentally disabled), learning disabled, speech/language impaired, etc., and and in some states, the Gifted and Talented programs are under the special education "umbrella."

A "Thanks" click wasn't enough. In addition, a high school diploma with a Special Education designation means that person did not complete the same coursework as someone without that designation. A student who receives Special Education services can still get a diploma without the Special Education designation if they complete the same coursework as others who do not receive Special Education Services.

 

[Holly G. Lightly]

I'm a LONG time reader but just joined today. Thank you to everyone who contributes to the cases. I come here for up-to-date news. I read info here BEFORE I see it on TV (if at all).

I do believe JMII is being sincere in all of his interviews. It has to hurt to know your little brother caused such an horrific event & frightening being shoved into the media through no fault of your own.

Watching the video of JMII raised some ??'s for me....
He's 43 y/o & said 'about 16 years ago, they came to Cherokee County to live with his mother's brother. "That's when I parted ways with the family," says Johnny.'
He would have been 27. Did the whole family (even as adults) follow when the parents moved around? That just struck me as odd.

I wonder did he get the scar on his head from AM?

I am glad the father-son reunion came out of this otherwise heartbreaking crime. Hopefully the mother stays in jail/prison & they can spend time together w/o AM & MM. It's sad to think that a person was so evil his own family don't want to bury him. I TOTALLY agree w/ them & do not blame them but something about it makes me sad.


I'm with some of you in thinking GB & JB had to have known AM was a loose cannon. If they were in one another's lives for as long as been mentioned I find it hard to believe AM could have stayed in control each & every time he was around them. Something is amiss with that story.

As parents our first obligation is to our children. After the allegations (proven or not) of sexual misconduct there is NO WAY on this earth that AM would have such an active role in my children's lives. Even if he/she was blood kin! Good parents do not allow their children to be exposed!
I would not care whose toes I stepped on or whose feelings I hurt when it comes to protecting my children! Why take the chance? Better safe than sorry. IF the person had to be around for reunions, chance run-ins or whatever by child would not be out of my sight!

As the poster I quoted said, "birds of a feather...flock together"

Welcome to posting, HeavenLeigh!

(I'm very much a newby to both reading and posting)

I agree. I don't understand it, but mostly I don't want GB's heart to be any more burdened and broken than it already is. I can't imagine the crushing guilt and pain he must be feeling.

All I can think is that GB just didn't see it. AM was a nine year old boy when he entered GB's life. I suspect that GB is a generous and caring person. He married a young woman with two very young children, adopted those children as his own and appeared to treat them as his own. He probably took nine year old AB under his wing, too. GB probably taught AM all he knew about mechanics, and just tried to help him.

I'm also starting to think that AM was a sociopath. He was cold-blooded. I know a person whom I suspect has sociopathic tendencies. I've seen this person repeatedly flip from extremely confrontational anger, to charmingly pleasant and sweet with the appearance of another person. They are extremely manipulative and have members of their own family fooled. I'm extremely perceptive and convinced I pick up on more than the average person; however, I still couldn't grasp this person's reality for a long time. Such evil is difficult for most people to comprehend. That's the conclusion I've come to, anyway.

 

[susan1122]

I'm a LONG time reader but just joined today. Thank you to everyone who contributes to the cases. I come here for up-to-date news. I read info here BEFORE I see it on TV (if at all).

I do believe JMII is being sincere in all of his interviews. It has to hurt to know your little brother caused such an horrific event & frightening being shoved into the media through no fault of your own.

Watching the video of JMII raised some ??'s for me....
He's 43 y/o & said 'about 16 years ago, they came to Cherokee County to live with his mother's brother. "That's when I parted ways with the family," says Johnny.'
He would have been 27. Did the whole family (even as adults) follow when the parents moved around? That just struck me as odd.

I wonder did he get the scar on his head from AM?

I am glad the father-son reunion came out of this otherwise heartbreaking crime. Hopefully the mother stays in jail/prison & they can spend time together w/o AM & MM. It's sad to think that a person was so evil his own family don't want to bury him. I TOTALLY agree w/ them & do not blame them but something about it makes me sad.


I'm with some of you in thinking GB & JB had to have known AM was a loose cannon. If they were in one another's lives for as long as been mentioned I find it hard to believe AM could have stayed in control each & every time he was around them. Something is amiss with that story.

As parents our first obligation is to our children. After the allegations (proven or not) of sexual misconduct there is NO WAY on this earth that AM would have such an active role in my children's lives. Even if he/she was blood kin! Good parents do not allow their children to be exposed!
I would not care whose toes I stepped on or whose feelings I hurt when it comes to protecting my children! Why take the chance? Better safe than sorry. IF the person had to be around for reunions, chance run-ins or whatever by child would not be out of my sight!

As the poster I quoted said, "birds of a feather...flock together"

Thanks for joining and commenting, HeavenLeigh! Welcome! I also come here when I think there is more to a story than I am seeing in the news. This web site and the people on it are great!

I agree about protecting our kids. When I became a mother something clicked in me that I'm not sure was there before. I would kill and/or be killed for my son....to protect him. And I am by nature not aggressive. I guess it's the mother bear syndrome.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Hi, Ghostwheel. I had to go back and check, but they were arrested in Hardemann County, TN. I think that is where they will be tried. JB and AB were both killed in TN (in the garage).

Thank you. The good news is for TN:

(a) First degree murder is:
... (2) A killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate any first degree murder, act of terrorism, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, theft, kidnapping, aggravated child abuse, aggravated child neglect, rape of a child, aggravated rape of a child or aircraft piracy; ....

(b) No culpable mental state is required for conviction under subdivision (a)(2) or (a)(3), except the intent to commit the enumerated offenses or acts in those subdivisions.
http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-13/part-2/39-13-202/

So if they can prove she planned it, doesn't matter what her mental state is.

 

[susan1122]

Welcome to posting, HeavenLeigh!

(I'm very much a newby to both reading and posting)

I agree. I don't understand it, but mostly I don't want GB's heart to be any more burdened and broken than it already is. I can't imagine the crushing guilt and pain he must be feeling.

All I can think is that GB just didn't see it. AM was a nine year old boy when he entered GB's life. I suspect that GB is a generous and caring person. He married a young woman with two very young children, adopted those children as his own and appeared to treat them as his own. He probably took nine year old AB under his wing, too. GB probably taught AM all he knew about mechanics, and just tried to help him.

I'm also starting to think that AM was a sociopath. He was cold-blooded. I know a person whom I suspect has sociopathic tendencies. I've seen this person repeatedly flip from extremely confrontational anger, to charmingly pleasant and sweet with the appearance of another person. They are extremely manipulative and have members of their own family fooled. I'm extremely perceptive and convinced I pick up on more than the average person; however, I still couldn't grasp this person's reality for a long time. Such evil is difficult for most people to comprehend. That's the conclusion I've come to, anyway.

Hi Holly, I wanted to thank you for the rumor info. Very interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if some of that is true. Most of it even. I think you could be right about GB.....I can see both sides of this....so I'm on the fence. But I think AM was like a son to him, very likely. You are probably right about GB teaching AM mechanics. I am really thinking AM had sociopathic tendencies, at least. Which could explain why he had so many people fooled. Interesting about that person you know, too. I use to know someone like that.....confusing and then scary when things become clearer. Jmo.

 

[Bystander66]

Here we go.....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...aying-suspect-adam-mayes-charged-with-murder/

Thank you. The good news is for TN:

(a) First degree murder is:
... (2) A killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate any first degree murder, act of terrorism, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, theft, kidnapping, aggravated child abuse, aggravated child neglect, rape of a child, aggravated rape of a child or aircraft piracy; ....

(b) No culpable mental state is required for conviction under subdivision (a)(2) or (a)(3), except the intent to commit the enumerated offenses or acts in those subdivisions.
http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-13/part-2/39-13-202/

So if they can prove she planned it, doesn't matter what her mental state is.

Aye, but here's the rub.....................

(d) As used in subdivision (a)(1), “premeditation” is an act done after the exercise of reflection and judgment. “Premeditation” means that the intent to kill must have been formed prior to the act itself. It is not necessary that the purpose to kill pre-exist in the mind of the accused for any definite period of time. The mental state of the accused at the time the accused allegedly decided to kill must be carefully considered in order to determine whether the accused was sufficiently free from excitement and passion as to be capable of premeditation.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Aye, but here's the rub.....................(d) As used in subdivision (a)(1), “premeditation” is an act done after the exercise of reflection and judgment. “Premeditation” means that the intent to kill must have been formed prior to the act itself. It is not necessary that the purpose to kill pre-exist in the mind of the accused for any definite period of time. The mental state of the accused at the time the accused allegedly decided to kill must be carefully considered in order to determine whether the accused was sufficiently free from excitement and passion as to be capable of premeditation.

No rub. I think. If I am not mistaken, this applies to subdivision (a)(1) and TM falls under subdivision (a)(2). Kidnapping adds special circumstance to murder.

 

[Bystander66]

No rub. I think. If I am not mistaken, this applies to subdivision (a)(1) and TM falls under subdivision (a)(2). Kidnapping adds special circumstance to murder.

So planning does not enter into it.

Next court date is May 22.

 

[Ghostwheel]

So planning does not enter into it.

Next court date is May 22.

I think it does.

If TM decided to commit a kidnap offense with AM, under (a)(2)

(a) First degree murder is: ... (2) A killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate any first degree murder, act of terrorism, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, theft, kidnapping, aggravated child abuse, aggravated child neglect, rape of a child, aggravated rape of a child or aircraft piracy;

Then her mental state won't matter per

(b) No culpable mental state is required for conviction under subdivision (a)(2) or (a)(3), except the intent to commit the enumerated offenses or acts in those subdivisions.

My interpretation is that if she planned to kidnap, it is the same as intent to kidnap. Logic says if the law states a murder happening during a kidnapping is first degree murder, and that there is no mental culpability required if there was an intent to kidnap which resulted in a killing and TM planned or intended to kidnap, TM's mental state won't matter.

It is convoluted, but not unusual. In many states, if you are part of a crime which results in a killing, you get charged with murder.

ETA: Found Tennessee's competency criteria. If this applies to TM for the kidnapping charge, then it should carry over to the murder charge.
In Tennessee, the following elements are required criteria for the insanity defense:
• the mental disease or defect must be severe; and
• the accused must have been unable to appreciate the nature or wrongfulness of the act.

 

[Yoda]

I didn't see this posted already, but alexandria's bio dad is seeking custody.

http://wreg.com/2012/05/12/biological-father-of-alexandria-bain-seeking-custody/

 

[GrainneDhu]

As I said, after reading her comments, unless someone else wrote them for her, it's not from the mind of a ten year old. As far as professionals examining her, they don't know her and she can play it however she wants to get out of the dp.

Even if she did, a ten year old would have enough sense to not stand and watch two people being violently strangled to death and do nothing.

It's hard to predict what any human being will do in a sudden emergency situation.

You'd think that soldiers on the battlefield would shoot to kill because they are fighting for their lives. And yet, only 10% shoot to kill. And that's after training.

Families of missing people say their loved one was feisty and would have fought off an abductor. And then it turns out that when the abductor grabbed the person, the victim froze up and went meekly.

As for psychological exams, if it was easy to fake them, then insanity would not be one of the most difficult defences to win.

 

[jjenny]

I didn't see this posted already, but alexandria's bio dad is seeking custody.

http://wreg.com/2012/05/12/biological-father-of-alexandria-bain-seeking-custody/

Sounds like he signed his parental rights away so I am not sure how far he is going to get with it.