TN - Joann, 31, & Adrienne Bain, 14, Whiteville, 27 April 2012 - #5

[jjenny]

While biology matters, its not going to matter legally, if this guy gave up his parental rights.
I am not a lawyer but I don't think he is allowed to change his mind once he gave up his rights.
He gave the child up.
I don't think he will get her back.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just to be clear, when you sign your rights away to a child, you are no longer their parent. So in keeping things real, AB is not MJ's daughter, nor is MJ AB's dad.

I'm reading where some are saying that AB should be able to choose where she lives because of her age. So in saying that do you think she should be able to choose to go live with a friends family? Seriously? So if she chose to just go live with one of her friends she should be able to do that? MJ has no legal rights to GB's child. Period.

SBM

In my state, children under 14 have no say in custody arrangements. If there is a custody dispute between parents (which is not the case here, since MJ is no longer AB's parent), each parent is evaluated as to how much parenting time they put in, lifestyle in regard to how much time they would have for the child, fitness as a parent, etc.

Children 14-18 can express a preference to the court but the judge has the final say.

I personally don't think it is appropriate to shove the burden of choice onto a kid's shoulders. Kids aren't stupid; they know if they pick one parent, the other parent will be hurt. Why force a child into a miniaturised Sophie's Choice?

Regardless, I think it's a moot point: MJ made an irrevocable decision. That means he can't revoke it.

It's like Jennifer Grey's nose--no matter how much she regrets it, she can't go back to what she had.

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

My ex husband signed away his rights to my son 8 years ago. He has NO rights to him whatsoever...pays no child support and as far as the judge told us it cannot be reversed. JMO

 

[menmo]

Respectfully BBM and SBM

Along the same thoughts as others...
Last night as I lay down to sleep I found myself worrying about the girls.
My thoughts on this whole immediate family situation was that JB was likely the balance and glue that held everything together. GB probably financed the family needs but Joann met everyones daily personal needs.
I worry GB cant fulfill Joann's shoes. Starting with the basics like cleaning to the more complex issues that "girls" have. I guess he can hire household help or order dinner out instead of home cooked meals but I think those girls are going to be missing their mamma more than we understand.
What a tough road ahead for them all. I hope that these girls have all the love they deserve and GB will be extra considerate of their needs before his. I still havent seen any proof that he is a good parent BUT he was Joanns husband. JMO

Of course they are going to miss their mom. GB does have a twenty four year old daughter that I'm sure these two younger children are most likely close to. She is their sister and I imagine she would be willing to help them through the rough spots, just as I imagine more family and friends will be there for, also.
One of the articles I read stated that MJ is saying GB wants to take the girls to CA. Well, they're his children and he can go where he wants with them.
I don't doubt that JB was the glue. I think for the most part that is what mom's do. They pull it all together and keep everyone tight and on the right trail.
As for you not seeing any proof that GB is a good parent, I haven't seen anything showing he is not. If the insinuation by some (not saying you) is that since he allowed his children to be around Adam and his family, then I say look around. You, too, could be had by someone like this one day. Any one of us could. I think AM was very much a weirdo with a plan and he knew how to carry that plan out and for years did so. Just because GB and JB gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought they knew him, doesn't mean they aren't good parents. It means AM was evil enough to pull it off and I'm putting the blame right square where it lies and that's with AM, TM, and MM.

Biology matters, and MJ is still Alexandria's biological father.

Biology and what it means to us doesn't go away just because someone signed some papers a year ago.

Alexandria was just betrayed by a man who she was not biologically related to, but who was allowed into her life *as though* he were an uncle or a brother. He took her mom and older sister away, and terrorized her. Gary was the man who introduced him into her life -- another man who was in her life *as though* he was her father... but he wasn't. She may not trust men very much right now -- especially those that are not biologically related.

Everything changes in the stepfamily dynamic when the biological parent is gone. (And although GB adopted the girls a little over a year ago, they have operated as a stepfamily, not as an adoptive family -- since MJ still had contact with the girls.)

I do wish he and GB would use mediation or something to work it out, instead of MJ looking for a lawyer. MJ doing that may have just tipped the scales against him. He should have been more patient and thoughtful. JMO

Yes, MJ is still the bio father, nothing would ever change that and it is important for finding out medical issues within that family. That's where it stops for me.
As for MJ just signing the papers a year ago to give up his parental rights, I'm not sure I buy that. I'd like to see the paper. If it was a year ago then I am betting that the visits and the care and concern by MJ for AB and AB, were not first on his mind. I've worked with a lot of people in a lot of cases and I'm telling you this is classic I've got a new family and am moving on with them. You all have a nice life now, I've got others to feed Sorry if that's rude to anyone but it is what it is. I'd love to be proved wrong on this one.
As for MJ's friends posting on the news website that was provided by someone before, stating how nice of a guy he is, blah blah blah, let's not forget some people including AM's landlord, if I recall correctly, had nothing bad to say about him either. Not even saying that MJ is on the same caliber as that guy but just saying that there's usually always people to come to the defense of someone they feel is wronged. For me in this scenario the wronged are JB, AB, AB, KB, and GB.
I respectfully disagree with you as now GB is AB's dad. Probably always has been more so than her own bio.
I hope they don't use mediation to work it out because it's clear that MJ has no rights to AB. For some reason I have a feeling that if AB wanted to see MJ at some time past or future she was and would be allowed by GB.I'm not sure I'd do that, though, until after she is of age or at least have it supervised. To many times kids are manipulated and promised things that never come to be, just to get that kid there.
It's clear to me that MJ thinks about MJ. Maybe JB didn't feel that was such a good environment for her two children with MJ. None of us are privy to that.
I wish this would have never happened. :'(

MOO

 

[winterrose]

http://www.wmctv.com/story/18279544/murdered-mothers-best-friend-speaks-out-to-defend-character

Becky Bryant, Jo Ann's close friend, said the Bains moved from Whiteville to Arizona, but in 2009 they relocated back in order to take care of Jo Ann Bain's mother-in-law. She believes that's when Bain met Adam Mayes.This makes total sense when you look at the photos of AM and the girls, that would have been their ages upon returning to TN in 2009.

AM lived in Florida and married TM around the time JB and GB married, so I believe the spectulation JB and AM were together for a brief time before JB married GB is just rumor. Booth and TM's mother said AM lived in Florida and Georgia and they knew him since he was a kid. I don't know when AM and TM moved to TN, but if GB hadn't seen AM since he was married to his sister, AM would have been in his early 20's.

Bryant resents speculation that Mayes and Bain were anything more than friends. "I don't want my friend's reputation smeared because people want to talk," said Bryant.

 

[jjenny]

http://www.wmctv.com/story/18279544/murdered-mothers-best-friend-speaks-out-to-defend-character

Becky Bryant, Jo Ann's close friend, said the Bains moved from Whiteville to Arizona, but in 2009 they relocated back in order to take care of Jo Ann Bain's mother-in-law. She believes that's when Bain met Adam Mayes.This makes total sense when you look at the photos of AM and the girls, that would have been their ages upon returning to TN in 2009.

AM lived in Florida and married TM around the time JB and GB married, so I believe the spectulation JB and AM were together for a brief time before JB married GB is just rumor. Booth and TM's mother said AM lived in Florida and Georgia and they knew him since he was a kid. I don't know when AM and TM moved to TN, but if GB hadn't seen AM since he was married to his sister, AM would have been in his early 20's.

Bryant resents speculation that Mayes and Bain were anything more than friends. "I don't want my friend's reputation smeared because people want to talk," said Bryant.

If she just met this guy, to me it only makes it more bizarre that the parents allowed him to take their young children on home visits and summer visits. And kept in contact with him even after allegations to CPS. They meet in 2009, but in 2010 they are already allegations about leg shaving of a little girl that was there for her regular visits?

 

[MaryJaneSmith]

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20120513/WIRE/120519865/1083/ARTICLES?p=2&tc=pg

"Gary Bain told police that his wife and daughters were asleep when he went to bed at midnight and were gone when he awoke the next day, but he figured the girls went to school and Jo Ann had gone somewhere, too. But she didn't answer her cell phone that day, April 27, and the girls never got off the school bus that afternoon.

At 8 p.m., he called the Hardeman County Sherriff's Office to report them missing."

I thought he called 911 when they didn't get off the bus. He knew they never made it to school and didn't call LE until 8pm?

"Police interviewed Mayes, who acknowledged to investigators on April 29 that he was the last one to see Jo Ann Bain and the girls"

So LE didn't even talk to AM until the 29th? What took so long? GB (and also LE) must have really believed JB left with the girls of her own accord... wonder why they were so willing to think so?

"Hardeman County Sheriff John Doolen said two days later* that Mayes was a person of interest in the case but that there were no signs of foul play."

*This would be May 2nd. LE really didn't see the asthma medication and cell phones left behind as signs of foul play? They carried on with that thinking for SIX DAYS? WTH? I guess the only "signs of foul play" they finally recognized were the bodies buried in shallow graves?

Another question that comes to my mind is if all the cell phones were left at home, didn't GB hear JBs phone ringing when he tried calling her? Of course, it could have had a dead battery, but if he tried calling the cell phones of JB or any of the girls, he could have heard it ringing in the house, or at least vibrating. If the phone was dead, it would probably go right to voicemail.

I know there are many of you posting here that have strong feelings against MJ and feel sorry for GB. I feel just the opposite. I am highly suspicious of GB and I hope and pray that MJ will be able to get his daughter back. GB was aware that AM was accused of being naked with his youngest daughter, and did nothing to protect her. He was obviously at home while the murders took place and didn't even hear any type of commotion?

I also think that it is odd that he wants to take the ashes to CA. There is a fund set up for funeral expenses, yet he is getting them cremated and taking them to CA. Why not spread their ashes in Arizona, since they loved it there so much?

I still think there is much more to this story than any one knows, and it may never be known. I also wonder if the girls will ever tell the entire truth about what happened to them. I bet they have been conditioned to keep secrets. Regardless, I personally am of the opinion that GB put his wife and children's lives in danger. AM was GBs buddy, and even after the DCS investigation, he continued to allow a pedo around his girls. WHY? He also was aware of AMs character. I don't believe that he knew this man this long and didn't know that he was a pedo, a mooch, mistreated his wife, never worked, had the cops called numerous times, did drugs, the list goes on and on....no way! He knew the character of AM, and obviously liked him! Birds of a feather..... Also, I don't believe he had GB fooled like he did his landlord. The landlord thought he was a great guy, etc. However, that's the landlord, someone you want to think highly of you. GB was someone who KNEW him his whole life. GB knew the good, bad, and the ugly. I don't believe that AM had him fooled. He knew his character, just like his AMs brothers and sisters knew his character. IMO THERE IS MORE TO THIS STORY, MUCH MORE!

 

[raeann]

Often, in cases of step children with medical problems, a bio parent will agree to sign off on an adoption so that their child can qualify for better medical coverage and benefits that the step parent might have available. I think it is very wrong to assume that the adoption occurred because the girls bio dad didn't care for them or love them. There is NO evidence of that from any source that I have seen.

jmo

 

[epiphany]

Snipped

Mark Johnson said via phone that he is Adrienne’s and Alexandria’s biological father and that he, Gary Bain and Adam Mayes had known each other for a long time. “We lost Joann and Adrienne but feel blessed to have Kyliyah and Alexandria out of a horrible situation,” he said.

Snipped

He [Livingston-Bain family spokesman] also characterized Mayes as a psychopath and said Gary Bain would never have exposed his family to Mayes if he had known of his dark nature.

http://www.abc24.com/news/local/sto...ily-after-Murders/4PUIUEhaKUmvDYaMEhGmSw.cspx

Neither Gary B, JoAnn B nor Mark J would have exposed the girls to Adam had they known his true nature. I believe that only Adam, his mother and Teresa knew who Adam really was. No one else is responsible, IMO, but the latter three.

 

[jjenny]

Often, in cases of step children with medical problems, a bio parent will agree to sign off on an adoption so that their child can qualify for better medical coverage and benefits that the step parent might have available. I think it is very wrong to assume that the adoption occurred because the girls bio dad didn't care for them or love them. There is NO evidence of that from any source that I have seen.

jmo

Whatever his reasons were, he signed off. If it was done through the courts he can't just claim he changed his mind and wants the child back-he gave up his rights.

 

[menmo]

If she just met this guy, to me it only makes it more bizarre that the parents allowed him to take their young children on home visits and summer visits. And kept in contact with him even after allegations to CPS. They meet in 2009, but in 2010 they are already allegations about leg shaving of a little girl that was there for her regular visits?

It has been stated that GB was once married to AM's sister. With that in mind maybe GB remembers AM as the little kid he once knew, and felt he was okay because he had that sense of knowing him for awhile.

I've never been very trusting with my kids. I was married before to someone that prevented me from ever feeling safe or secure, as I knew at any time him or one of his oddball family members might come and sweep my kid up and I wouldn't know where they were.

MOO

 

[jjenny]

Snipped

Mark Johnson said via phone that he is Adrienne’s and Alexandria’s biological father and that he, Gary Bain and Adam Mayes had known each other for a long time. “We lost Joann and Adrienne but feel blessed to have Kyliyah and Alexandria out of a horrible situation,” he said.

Snipped

He also characterized Mayes as a psychopath and said Gary Bain would never have exposed his family to Mayes if he had known of his dark nature.

http://www.abc24.com/news/local/sto...ily-after-Murders/4PUIUEhaKUmvDYaMEhGmSw.cspx

Neither Gary B, JoAnn B nor Mark J would have exposed the girls to Adam had they known his true nature. I believe that only Adam, his mother and Teresa knew who Adam really was. No one else is responsible, IMO, but the latter three.

That seems to contradict the claims of JB's friend that JB just met AM in 2009. How would they all know AM without JB meeting him prior to 2009?

 

[melissasmom]

I agree there is a whole lot to this story we don't know. There is much speculation about GB. We really don't know anything about him-what others think of him, his personality, etc.
Has GB's ex, PB (AM's sister) said anything at all to the media? Anyone know? I just wonder as she is someone who would obviously know a great deal about BOTH GB and AM.

 

[MaryJaneSmith]

I also find it curious that the family moved back to TN to take care of GBs sick family member. I would bet that JB was the one giving the care. It has been stated that TM was the caretaker of AMs aging father.

 

[jjenny]

It has been stated that GB was once married to AM's sister. With that in mind maybe GB remembers AM as the little kid he once knew, and felt he was okay because he had that sense of knowing him for awhile.

I've never been very trusting with my kids. I was married before to someone that prevented me from ever feeling safe or secure, as I knew at any time him or one of his oddball family members might come and sweep my kid up and I wouldn't know where they were.

MOO

Well he might remember him as a little kid, but what did he think AM's interest was in hanging out with young female children, apparently unrelated to AM? To the point that he would take these children to his home for visits? And after allegations were made to CPS about inappropriate behavior, that didn't concern either GB or JB?

 

[menmo]

I agree there is a whole lot to this story we don't know. There is much speculation about GB. We really don't know anything about him-what others think of him, his personality, etc.
Has GB's ex, PB (AM's sister) said anything at all to the media? Anyone know? I just wonder as she is someone who would obviously know a great deal about BOTH GB and AM.

I would never trust PB, AM's sister, to ever tell the truth about their relationship. Never.

I also find it curious that the family moved back to TN to take care of GBs sick family member. I would bet that JB was the one giving the care. It has been stated that TM was the caretaker of AMs aging father.

I don't find it curious at all that a family moved to take care of a sick relative. It's what family does.

MOO

 

[MaryJaneSmith]

It has been stated that GB was once married to AM's sister. With that in mind maybe GB remembers AM as the little kid he once knew, and felt he was okay because he had that sense of knowing him for awhile.

I've never been very trusting with my kids. I was married before to someone that prevented me from ever feeling safe or secure, as I knew at any time him or one of his oddball family members might come and sweep my kid up and I wouldn't know where they were.

MOO

Being that GB was married to AMs sister, GB was aware of the family dynamics described by Johnny Mayes, Jr. He knew AM, knew everyone in the family, knew about the rifts between siblings, knew that the MFM was mean to everyone, knew AM had been accused by GB's ex wife who is AMs sister of molestation....the list goes on and on GB knew AM WELL, and continued to send his little girls off with him on a regular basis! WHY???????? Of course, GBs attorney is gonna put a good spin on his client. Doesn't convince me of anything at all! IMO, THERE IS WAY MORE TO THIS STORY THAN WHAT IS BEING TOLD!

 

[CharlestonGal]

The reasons that MJ gave up parental rights over his daughters is really moot. The fact is, he did. In the eyes of the law he is still a blood relative (like a grandparent or uncle would be), and if MJ feels that GB is an unfit parent and should be stripped of custody then he can file suit with the court just like any other grandparent or uncle or aunt etc. are free to do.

Good luck with that. We've seen right on this board how hard it is for a relative to gain custody of children from another relative (even children who are abused and neglected). MJ gave up all rights to his children when he signed them away. Perhaps he should have put more thought into that decision, but he doesn't get to take it back now just because he wants to. He doesn't seem to understand that GB is now the one with the rights and asking the courts to now strip GB of his parental rights is a very tall order indeed. He is a mere relative now in the eyes of the law - not a parent with presumptive custody rights. GB has those.

 

[menmo]

Well he might remember him as a little kid, but what did he think AM's interest was in hanging out with young female children, apparently unrelated to AM? To the point that he would take these children to his home for visits? And after allegations were made to CPS about inappropriate behavior, that didn't concern either GB or JB?

I believe like others stated with their posts before that JB and GB likely felt sorry for AM and TM for not being able to have kids, and the way they (AM, TM) presented themselves around the Bains, including their children was so far from what they really were that GB probably can't wrap his mind around it now.
The allegations to DFS was unfounded. Too many times I know the truth is there but DFS takes the word of the adults instead of a child. With that said however, I believe that JB and GB probably asked the child what happened and it was so different than reported and they believed their child that it didn't happen or she wouldn't have been allowed near them again.

To me, people saying (not necessarily you) they put their children in danger by letting AM around them and their kids, is saying that JB is not a victim of AM, either, as she chose for her and her children to be around him. AM is the evil one, along with TM and MM, not the Bain family.

MOO

 

[MaryJaneSmith]

I would never trust PB, AM's sister, to ever tell the truth about their relationship. Never.

I don't find it curious at all that a family moved to take care of a sick relative. It's what family does.

MOO

LOL! I would absolutely LOVE to hear PB speak out. Why would you never trust her to tell the truth? Do you know her? Has she been proven to be a liar? She is probably the one that witnessed the shaving incident, and her daughter and grandchild were in the house during the murders and abductions. SHE would be someone that would know more than just about anyone else about exactly what kind of people both AM and GB are. Obviously, she can't be too bad, because she called and reported the incident she saw. She might be the one that could shed light onto this entire situation. I, for one, would listen to EVERYTHING she had to say about the entire situation. Just look at what her brother told the world about mommy dearest.