TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #1

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panthera said:
Back from commercial, going over the case again, Karen's son's plea for information about his mother and for her to please come home.

NG discussing now with Dr. Sherry Blake, clinical psychologist, re: husband still living in home during divorce. She wants to know what the tone inside the house was with everyone knowing parents are getting divorce.

Caller wants to know if younger children have been questioned by LE. David Lohr doesn't know answer; quotes Sheriff from today saying husband is cooperating.

NG producer saying LE has been at house, husband has spoken with LE, no one has taken a LDT.

NG now discussing with an ER physician about possible evidence inside the car; look for blood, semen, other DNA evidence.

Caller (male) asking if LE can put husband in jail until he talks, seems he's not cooperating any more. NG correcting the caller on the law here in the U.S.NG asking legal panel about husband not taking a LDT; answer, unreliable, not admissible in court. NG saying it is admissible if both parties stipulate in court. Another guest saying LE has to have probable cause to take husband into custody.

NG producer stating daughter woke at 6:00am. Dad was in the house, reported Karen missing to LE, searches of house were by consent and with a warrant (procedure).

NG back to talking with Karen's mother. NG asking about nature of marriage problems. She cannot answer; she wasn't there. Something was going on, she filed for divorce, didn't discuss with mother.

Also briefly brought up neighbor accused of poisoning dogs; search of his property.
Click to expand...

bbm

It is the same here, why on earth do they even take stupidity calls. jmo
 
Sounds like there is allot of info/evidence in this case. Should be solvable. Things stack up against husband:

Not wanting divorce. (If he wanted custody of young kids - even bigger red flag!)
Last person to have contact.
She is beginning to out go on her own.
Perhaps argument of her going back out when child is sick.
Crime scene appears staged.
Won't take Lie Detector.
Not out front looking (especially since he didn't want divorce).
Why the need for a search warrant - "procedural" what's that. A person just has to give approval I thought.
 
I'm assuming we don't know what the google search was for, correct?

New to this case and I wanted to thank everyone for the info and the notes from NG last night. I started recording it and then my doofus husband stopped it after 20 minutes.
 
Nana46 said:
NG never mentioned that she was at a party that night...or maybe I did not hear that. Seems that would have been part of the timeline....she kept making it appear that all were at home and that KS went to bed with her child which I believe is true....but the party has to be considered as to what time she got home,etc. Hope NG gets all the facts straight.
Click to expand...

Normal NG...lol. I saw the show last night and that's the first thing I noticed too. What happen to the Halloween Party? Important...because she could have made arrangements to go out again after she took the daughter home.

I'd like to know if the father tried to call any of her friends before he called 911? How did he know it was dire straight time at 6 am? I'll have to go and review, but I thought he had seen the car and then called.?? :waitasec:
 
OldSteve said:
Sounds like there is allot of info/evidence in this case. Should be solvable. Things stack up against husband:

Not wanting divorce. (If he wanted custody of young kids - even bigger red flag!)
Last person to have contact.
She is beginning to out go on her own.
Perhaps argument of her going back out when child is sick.
Crime scene appears staged.
Won't take Lie Detector.
Not out front looking (especially since he didn't want divorce).
Why the need for a search warrant - "procedural" what's that. A person just has to give approval I thought.
Click to expand...

IANAL, but I think evidence found with a SW is more "safe" of being admissible in court than a consensual search.
 
Some questions I have (not sure if anyone knows the answers - probably not but just thinking out loud):

Where was the husband sleeping the night/morning she disappeared? (he was home, correct?)

Were there any signs of struggle in the home?

Was her purse found in her car or was it at home? Was it found at all?

Were the clothes found that she was wearing thing night when she went to pick up her daughter?
 
hollyblue said:
IANAL, but I think evidence found with a SW is more "safe" of being admissible in court than a consensual search.
Click to expand...

I to IANAL, and not to be argumentative, but I think it's just the opposite because a search warrant has to define specific areas to be searched, things to be looked, etc... and if something is found that is not mentioned, or in an area not mentioned, then it's not admissible.
Whereas, a person in the presence of others LE who will under oath later say that permission was given to search one's car, premise, everything, and anything... well you see my point..
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/search-warrant-basics-29742.html
 
Hopeful One said:
Some questions I have (not sure if anyone knows the answers - probably not but just thinking out loud):

Where was the husband sleeping the night/morning she disappeared? (he was home, correct?)

Were there any signs of struggle in the home?

Was her purse found in her car or was it at home? Was it found at all?

Were the clothes found that she was wearing thing night when she went to pick up her daughter?
Click to expand...

I think our news here only said her Halloween costume was in the car. There has been no official info (published that I know of)
regarding purse, cell phones, clothes,etc. I always wondered if she changed clothes in the car since they did state that costume was there. IMO.
 
Hopeful One said:
Some questions I have (not sure if anyone knows the answers - probably not but just thinking out loud):

Where was the husband sleeping the night/morning she disappeared? (he was home, correct?)

Were there any signs of struggle in the home?

Was her purse found in her car or was it at home? Was it found at all?

Were the clothes found that she was wearing thing night when she went to pick up her daughter?
Click to expand...

BBM

IIRC she spoke to husband who was upstairs while she was downstairs when she brought her daughter home after being called that the daughter wasn't feeling well. Though she stayed with her daughter - No mention of hubby being together with them - it was like he remained upstairs while she and daughter remained downstairs.

IMO, that kind of "distancing" by a husband in a case is a red flag. Unless a person is very tried/disinterested I would think one would check to see what was going on with daughter/wife....
 
Some info that I have not seen discussed here(I could have just missed it tho) is about the party that Karen, herself was at that night. Karen attended a Halloween party that Saturday sans the STBX(soon2b ex). This party was in a neighborhood named "The Farm(s)". From what has been stated it is believed that not only did Karen go without the STBX, but that she attended the party alone, with no one.. The BFF, Ginny that was on NG last night states that she actually "spoke to" Karen earlier in the night while Karen was at the Halloween Party and that Karen said that she wasn't having fun or not enjoying the party(will post direct quote and link below).. This convo took place sometime prior to the 11:30 phonecall/text that Ginny received on her cell phone but did not answer since she was already in bed for the night.. That was at 11:39pm I believe and she stated that Karen had attempted to call her(Ginny) phone two times(left no voice msg as Ginny had not yet set up her vm on her new cell) followed by a text stating, "Please call me!"..

This IMO definitely leaves open the avenue of someone other than the hubby as the possible perp.. Of course not for certain that it indicates that it was someone other than hubby but IMO does open the door to other possibilities than just hubby..

So, if Karen was at a Halloween Party in the neighborhood named "The Farm" I wonder did she have her costume on for that party?(we know it was found in backseat of her abandoned car).. So common sense leads me to believe that it's very likely that she had it on at some point the night of Saturday when she attended the Haoween party.. To my knowledge we don't have the exact time of the convo btwn Karen and Ginny while Karen was at the Halloween Party.. We just know it to have been sometime prior to 11:30 when Karen attempted contact with Ginny 3times(2calls/1text).. Ginny did state that she felt it was something of importance due to her having attempted to actually call twice back to back followed by a text with an exclamation saying to please call her..

The next time of that night was that her little girl called mom at/around 1-1:30am asking to please come pick her up from the Halloween slumber party that she was at.. We know that Karen did so and returned home to their Willie Johnson home at/around 1:30-1:45am at which time the husband states is the last time that Karen was seen/heard(have heard some Accts stating he didn't actually see her but rather only heard her.. Others state that he saw and spoke to her with Karen on the stairwell and he on the second floor of the home.. Not sure which is accurate)..

We know that sometime soon thereafter Karen and her 9yr old daughter lay down together in bed to go to sleep.. The daughter awakes at 6am and finds that she is no longer in the same room/bed she had gone to sleep with mom in, but rather finds herself in a different room/bed alongside her 6yr old sister. And that she is who realizes mom is nowhere in the home and awakes dad to tell him..

I have also seen reports that state that dad is the one who located the abandoned car at/around 6am as well.. I'm assuming that after seeing that Karen's car was gone and possibly several calls to her cell were unanswered that dad then left out in his vehicle to drive to look for mom?? Not sure about those specific details and exact times?? Does anyone have a clearer acct of how exactly that discovery took place?? Also would like to know exact time of the last ping that was near the river??

Lemme go find the quote and link about Ginny and Karens convo from the Halloween Party.. BRB and will ETA to this post..

**ETA- Here's the direct quote followed by the link..
Swift had been at a Halloween party earlier on the night of October 29. A friend told a Nancy Grace producer that Swift called her from the party and said she was not having a good time. The friend said Swift tried to call her again around 11:40 pm and sent her a seemingly urgent text message, but she was already asleep.
Click to expand...
http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/201...missing-mom-“desperate”-for-help/
 
Lets just assume for a minute that the husband didn't have anything to do with Karen's disappearance. He see's her or talks to her at around 1:30 AM when she brings home the child. Than if the report is correct he locates the car around 6:00 AM and the child wakes up around 6:30 AM to notice that mom is nowhere to be found. Here is the questions I have. Why would the husband have gone out looking for her at this time? Why would he have left the kids home alone? Didn't he think someone might have been inside the house and did harm to Karen and could have done harm to the kids also? Did he search the whole house prior to leaving to know she was not home and there was no one in the house? Was it normal for him to wake up this early on a Sunday morning and look around the house to see if Karen was home or not? I would think considering the circumstances they would have slept in separate bedrooms. Did the husband always stick his head in on her that early on a Sunday morning to see if she was home or not? Wouldn't he have first made a call to her cell phone to see if she answered before leaving the house to go look for her? Obviously the call would have gone directly to voice mail since I would think the phone was turned off by the time that he should have called. Did he leave a message? Is LE able to verify if he even tried calling her phone that morning before he ventured out aimlessly looking for her before he found the car? Why would he leave the house to even go looking for her? If my wife was not home and her car was gone I wouldn't just go aimlessly driving around to try and find her. Especially at 6:00 AM and even more so if we were splitting up. I would have first tried to call her phone and maybe some of her friends or relatives to see if she was with them if I was that worried about her. If he didn't make any phone call prior to leaving the house it would look pretty suspicious that he is involved and he knew where the car was parked prior to leaving the house. For all he knew she could have left to go for a jog or something like that early in the morning. Is that cause to leave the house at 6:00 AM to go looking for her???????

SO what is the husbands story? Did he leave the house to run into town at 6:00 AM and then noticed Karen's car down the road with a flat tire and then realized she was missing OR did he notice her gone from the house and than go looking for her and found the car parked down the road?

If his story is that he noticed her gone and left I would be very suspicious of him, especially if he didn't first try and call her phone prior to leaving the house.


JMO
 
hollyblue said:
IANAL, but I think evidence found with a SW is more "safe" of being admissible in court than a consensual search.
Click to expand...

Correct, in that the husband can't later state he didn't consent to the search. It is in essence safeguarding what evidence LE may collect at the house.

MOO
 
As fas the questions about dad's account.. Just to be clear I, personally don't have a clue if he's responsible, but at this point in time he is the main suspect IMOO.. Back to dads account I would like to have as clear picture as possible about ATLEAST the point of the timeline where the dad and daughter awake and when, how, and who located mom's car..

^above^ in Joe's post it has the father being the first awake, followed by the daughter and the many aspects that stand out as odd with dad's time he awoke, how and why he located the car, and why would he have chosen to leave small children alone not knowing where his wife is..

Now, if that were how things unfolded that morning I would take great issue and much suspicion with the description of how dad awoke, set out to search and left kids alone still sleeping.. But that is not what I have read in any article to be how things occurred that morning regarding these few specifics I'm speaking of..

As I stated in my ^above^ post I understood that it was the 9yr old daughter that woke up at 6am in a different room/bed alongside her sister.. And with the 9th old having supposedly having gone to bed alongside mom at/around 1:30-2:00am in a different room/bed I am "assuming" that was the reason she got up curious to where mom was.. How I understand it is that it is this 9yr old daughter that awoke at 6am is the one who could not find mom anywhere in the home.. That dad was still asleep in another room in the house and that when she was unable to find mom anywhere in TJE house she goes and wakes her daddy up and tells him.. This is how I understand things to have happened from the reporting thus far(both articles as well as televised reports combined is where I have learned this info)..

So, therefor my question(s) do not lie in "why did DaD awake that early?".. Or "why did dad take off looking for mom with his young daughters sleeping, alone at home?".. I understand it to be the 9yr old that woke up at 6am, she is the one that got up and looked around and could not find mom anywhere in the home, and that the daughter is the one who then went and woke up daddy to tell him she couldn't find mom..

My questions still are what led to dad going out to search and quickly find mom's abandoned car 1/4mile from the home at/around 6am? If that's the correct time and sequence of events I thought to myself what might have occurred after the daughter woke dad up that would have so quickly led to the car being found abandoned??..

A couple of possibilities IMO might be that dad gets up.. He too obviously can find mom no where in the home, or property, he likely looks and sees that Karen's car is gone.. I could see that definitely making someone possibly a little more at ease, ATLEAST IMO it would.. Cuz then it would make sense why she's not there due to she's gotten in her car and gone some where.. To get breakfast, maybe a friends emergency that she didn't wana wake up her sleeping fam so she just left out.. I'm just saying that if it were I in this situation that in finding my car gone my hubby I believe would be more at ease seeing my car is gone and that I have a very good explanation for where it is I went to choosing not to awake my fam.. But it certainly seems as tho in this situation dad was not at ease with mom's car being there because something led to him quickly thereafter discovering her car gone he goes out either on foot, or in his vehicle amd quickly finds mom's abandoned car just the short distance of 1/4mile.. Now I can definitely see how at that POInt one would definitely start to feel panic, abandoned car, flat tire, wife nowhere to be found, and when calling her cell phone we know by this point it would
Have been cut off/shutoff(likely in river)..so I can see at that point panic.. But what I cannot understand was what led to dad so very quickly out of the house and searching and finding the abandoned car? What would have led him to do that so quickly??

Of course these questions are going on the theory of dad being innocent.. I am attempting to make logical sense of his reactions and sequence of events with his being innocent and not knowing where his wife had gone to early that morning.. Main point is that if the situation were mine it would not Automatically be assumed that something bad, dire, or foul play had occurred.. ATLEAST for the short future of time my family would just expect that I'd be returning anytime.. Tho I'm certain my not answering my cell might lead to calling friends or fam but I just can't see the pursuit of searching for me that quick.. Can't make sense of it..

But if he is innocent and say he just had a gut instinct pretty much from not being able to find her at home.. Therefor felt compelled to go search around when got no answer on her cell.. I'd say most likely that he did what IMO was done many times for far less serious of situations.. Meaning he would have had the neighbors, the Lambs come over to stay with the girls while he went and drove around to see if he could find mom..

As I said all of the scenario is assuming him innocent amd my attempting to answer my own question of why did immediately go out and search and find mom's car abandoned supposedly at/around 6am.. Very soonthereafter having just been woke up by his daughter who couldn't find mom??

I don't know lots of questions but specifically regarding this issue I would like to know if that's the sequence and times that supposedly occurred that Sunday morning??
 
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/20...ssee-and-ohio/

B.O.L.O. Sexual Predator James E. Gunterman in Southern Midwest On The Run For Two Years, He Links to Kentucky, Tennessee and Ohio.

This guy has several articles out about this and he sure feels there is a connection.


What if he picks out his prey and stalks them until an opportunity to abduct them?
 
I have read nowhere (that I can remember,lol) of any account being published of what happened after discovering the mother was not there when the child awoke. No timeline of any of that information has been given out to my knowledge. Granted all family members, LE,etc. know but this has not been put out to the public. I have heard no one state that the dad left looking for her and found the car. In all probability, after awaking maybe he tried calling her etc. If they were to be divorced, it is possible he just assumed she would not answer his calls,IMO. There have been no reports alluding to anything here. LE is keeping this one quiet on all levels and I respect them for that. I feel so bad for this family. I am sure the father is trying to keep it together for the kids. The oldest son's heartfelt pleas really pull at my heart. This one is a mystery and we are not used to this kind of thing in this area. For sure we now know this can happen anywhere.
 
Do we have any evidence, other than the father's word, that they even saw each other at 1:30? Did the daughter corroborate that?
 
There may be pieces of the story we weren't told. Possibly the neighbor who saw the car called the house to check on Karen? Also, we live out in the country and there is basically one way we usually go for about two miles. If I was looking for DH and his car was missing, I would drive to that point and probably turn around and go back home - not knowing which way he would have turned from there. I would probably put my 9yo in the car with me, even in her jammies - just for that short drive. Dad's story seems to add up to what I would do in that situation. I would think someone who planted the car would have left it for another to find. Also we have allot of "dead zones" where the cells don't work so I would definitely take the car out in case he had broken down.
 
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