TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #1

[December]

Not sure how much this helps, but the families that own 63, 92, 216, 309 and 321 Lutie Street have own the houses since 1969 or earlier. I don't want to post last names, but a reverse address search could probably give you names/phone numbers. Someone may remember if there was a search of the neighborhood.

Oh wow. that's amazing. thank you.

 

[December]

That makes sense, but what if you weren't visiting family? What if you were on your own for some R&R over the long weekend? OR you spent Thursday and Friday with family, and ended your visit by Saturday night? Actually, I think the perp was local, but when I noticed the motel on the corner of KJ's street, and another business along Nolensville that I'm almost certain was at one time a motel, it gave me reason to wonder if the perp was a traveler.

This makes sense. Also, it may be someone who had visited their family Thursday and Friday. and now their family was off visiting the in laws Saturday and Sunday. or the family was doing Christmas shopping.

or it was a person who was blending in because everyone thought a stranger was 'visiting family' when this stranger was doing nothing of the sort.

 

[December]

I spent all day yesterday reading all of your posts and trying to read up on what I could. I have a few thoughts:

* Have you tried to contact Robert Wellon, the writer of the article in the Nashville Scene? He seems to have been able to gather a lot of information for his piece that isn't found anywhere else. He may be able to provide you with some other information that he didn't include in his story. He may also be able to point you in a direction on how you may be able to get other information that you are looking for.

* There has been a lot of mention that Kathy's family was not very wealthy. That the dollar that her mother gave her to get treats would have been enough to purchase a donut as well as other things back then. If the dollar was a rare treat for her to get, perhaps she didn't have money to pay to ride the RD bus. Which is why she would have been walking to go skating and not riding the bus. Assuming she was walking bc she didn't have bus money, doesn't mean the bus driver didn't see her walking with skates and offer her a free ride. However, didn't her friends say they never saw her at the RD? If she was on the bus with other kids, wouldn't they have noticed that she didn't get off the bus at the RD with them?

* If the Krispy Kreme was open 24 hours back then, wouldn't someone have seen a man drop a body into the brush? Would he have taken the risk of getting caught by disposing of a body behind a business that was open 24hrs not knowing who would be pulling in, who would be leaving, or if an employee would be coming out for a break? Perhaps it wasn't a 24 hr KK back then?

* My mind keeps asking me this question. Kathy was abducted on Saturday. She was held somewhere until Monday. Her estimated time of death was noon on Monday correct? Why would someone bring her body back to one of the 2 locations that she was suppose to have disappeared from? Isn't that a HUGE risk of getting caught? Because of the body being found behind the KK, I have two ideas about this: 1. The person that took Kathy knew that she was suppose to be at the KK that day so he knew where LE would look to find her or 2. Maybe it was an employee at the KK. Do you know if there is a list of employees in the police file?

* I see a bunch of questions about what was found in Kathy's purse, if the dollar was still with her, and about prints on the purse. Because Kathy's case is still open, I'm sure there is a box of evidence with her name and case number on it. I would assume there were pics taken at the scene of the purse and what was scattered on the ground. There should be a log somewhere that inventories what was found where and what contents were still in the purse. The purse should still be part of the saved evidence so I would think there would maybe still be prints on the purse.

* Even though you are not "next of kin", you are family. Would you be allowed to contact the detective that is assigned to the case and ask for a copy of anything they have that would be public knowledge. ie: the hours the RD was open, the RD bus schedule, the hours of operation of the KK, a list of employees at both places, the names of the friends she was suppose to be meeting, a time line of events that they have been able to confirm, etc. Because it's been almost 44 years, I'm sure there has been a change in detectives and investigators. Are you able to contact the ones that have retired and perhaps see if they can offer you any information?

I haven't tried to contact the writer of the article. I didn't think of it since it was in 1998.

no one knows for sure about whether she got to the Rd. and i don't know if kk was opean 24hrs then. probably not since you're right.. it does seem risky.

iI just always figured if adcox and his bus had any part in this, kathy was alone on the bus. he picked her up at an odd time (not his usual route, time) promising to take her to rd.

(sorry i'm trying to get to these while i can)

you have a good point that maybe someone from kk was involved.

it does seem weird that she was all elaborately left there the way she was. i thought whomever must have quickly pulled up and thrown her out.

but, the type of ott murder has a terrorizing effect, so... maybe that was why. such a person would know how.

i will try to come back to these...thank you for the time you spent and your help
the detectives have changed several times.

 

[December]

Found a pic of the admission prices and skate rentals for the Hippodrome. I know she was going to the RD but I imagine the prices were around the same. Since Kathy had her own skates, she would have only needed to pay .50 for admission. So if she did make it inside, subtract that from the dollar she was carrying.

true.

idk when those were from for sure, the rd had token. i thought maybe she could use a token or so to get in? idk

thank you

 

[December]

nerosleuth,

my phone is really messing up lines so..I'm doing a separate posit


i think you may be onto something with the military thing because ... well, I think I know what you're talking about, that's all...I do know it was a strong person
i do not think they ever used tracking dogs. by the time they got it together to even consider such a thing, she was found anyway.

i could be wrong, but i don't think so.

thanksgiving weekend... no one around, everyon onvacation I

think you're probably right about the route to the ri nk

i will answer when i am not on this phone which has nuts thank you for your reply

thank

i mean gone nuts

 

[TrixieBel]

You gave me a little chuckle with the nuts comment.:giggle:

 

[Rainstorm]

It sounds like you are on to that happened . I would definitely contact the person in charge . You are family These are very important questions. I think they would share anything with you.a It is worth a try atleast. when you get some spare time. Good luck.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think you're right. The boy was Adcox's victim. The latest suspect wasn't Adcox. http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a-killing-a-search-a-suspect/Content?oid=1182733

So the person they hoped would come forward was probably a victim of that other subject and/or a close family member who knew his secrets.

The obituary of Adcox's wife shows they have grown children. Wonder what they know...

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Thank you for the replies to mine and other questions posted.
Ill wait awhile to post again until we see if a LEO that has the case will at least tell us if they found her street shoes also.......If they didn't, than she was either putting on her stakes or taking them off. If they say they did not find her street shoes, and no one could verify she was inside the ring. Than I would guess she was made to take off her streets shoes and put on her states, its a lot harder to run in skates than street shoes, and they may had been left where she was told to take them off at. When her and the demon got to where they were going he had her remove her skates to remove her clothing i would guess, and when all was done, he left her skates there with her clothing....................All speculation and not posting anything as being fact.
Goodnight all.......Love always.

 

[December]

It sounds like you are on to that happened . I would definitely contact the person in charge . You are family These are very important questions. I think they would share anything with you.a It is worth a try atleast. when you get some spare time. Good luck.

Thank you. I guess I will just call the police in Nashville and keep asking until they put me through to the right person. Someone must be assigned this case even if it's only part of a list of cold cases they work on from time to time. Finding out that Pat Postilgione was gone really derailed my line of thinking, but surely someone else worked with him on it.

 

[December]

You gave me a little chuckle with the nuts comment.:giggle:

hehe

It was crazy. My phone just would not behave and type. It acted possessed. Here I wanted to quickly provide what answers I could and my phone was skipping lines and deleting stuff and spazzing everywhere. anic:

 

[December]

Thank you for the replies to mine and other questions posted.
Ill wait awhile to post again until we see if a LEO that has the case will at least tell us if they found her street shoes also.......If they didn't, than she was either putting on her stakes or taking them off. If they say they did not find her street shoes, and no one could verify she was inside the ring. Than I would guess she was made to take off her streets shoes and put on her states, its a lot harder to run in skates than street shoes, and they may had been left where she was told to take them off at. When her and the demon got to where they were going he had her remove her skates to remove her clothing i would guess, and when all was done, he left her skates there with her clothing....................All speculation and not posting anything as being fact.
Goodnight all.......Love always.

yes, the question of her street shoes is very interesting...

the murderer seemed to use things belonging to her to torture her. i have always heard Kathy took good care of all of her things and was neat with her clothing. so, that would have bothered her.

her skates were thrown down in the grass beside her at the end. but that doesn't mean they didn't make her wear them for their own reasons.

her shoes, if not found could have been left forever at the rink. or maybe she was snatched off the street and they just threw them away or even gave them to another girl. that would be sick, and i don't mean the other girl would have any idea whose shoes they were. but, it might give the murderer a special thrill and the police might not ever find the shoes that way. they were just typical shoes many girls wore at the time. (speculating)

 

[December]

The obituary of Adcox's wife shows they have grown children. Wonder what they know...

they have to know about the 8 year old boy because micky miller told everyone in nashville about it via the scene in 1998. the scene was a free paper and many people read it. so, even if they didn't see it, surely someone would mention it. and a representative of the police doing an interview like that won't make a mistake when he is giving out the full name of the criminal. adcox was also arrested a bunch of time and nearly went to trial for Kathy. so, surely, they know he was in very serious trouble with the police.

however, i have a feeling he probably had a decent personality. so if someone didn't know, he seemed pretty o.k. a lot of people rode the accursed rollerdrome bus and remember it as a fun time.
moo
but pedophiles do often turn to people in their family.
moo
another thing they do, i believe, is share victims with pedo friends. i wonder if some in his family know those people.
moo
but, maybe they don't. maybe they remember him as a kindly old man...

 

[December]

of course the boy was Adcox's victim... and they're talking about the other guy at that point. maybe they mean a relative of HIS (I am not related to him at all). a lot of times these fiends go after their own relatives, after all. (Not the boy's the RSO.)

OF course, the boy went and talked to cops right after it happened. he was a pretty brave kid i don't think he's the problem, but idk.

as for the token, idk... her purse was found, but I don't know if she had a token.

I don't know why i kept saying 'of course'... i think i was just distracted. sorry. it sounds obnoxious. i didn't mean to be.

 

[December]

That makes sense, but what if you weren't visiting family? What if you were on your own for some R&R over the long weekend? OR you spent Thursday and Friday with family, and ended your visit by Saturday night? Actually, I think the perp was local, but when I noticed the motel on the corner of KJ's street, and another business along Nolensville that I'm almost certain was at one time a motel, it gave me reason to wonder if the perp was a traveler.

Yes, there should definitely be a motel in the area.

One possibility is it was someone for whom Nashville was a stop over between where they celebrated Thanksgiving and where they lived.

 

[December]

That's true we don't know which route Kathy took when she left home going to the roller skating rink.

But consider this here. Kathy could have taken a right from her house and walked through the neighborhood. I see two possible routes here.

The first route is taking Lutie Street to Foster Ave, and taking Foster to cut thru Coleman Park to reach Thompson Lane & Nolensville Pike.

The second and probably the most logical route, is that Kathy took Lutie Street to Burbank Ave, took Burbank to Joyner Ave, cut thru a field to reach Whitsett Road & Fannie Williams Street, took Fannie Williams to go thru another field to reach Coleman Park, and went thru Coleman Park to reach Thompson Lane & Nolensville Pike.

That would be a simple straight shot route if a kid wanted to take a short cut going thru fields and lots.

The big question here about the bus is where did it pick the kids up at?

Did it meet at an intersection, a parking lot at a business, church, neighborhood public library, or school? Or did it pick kids up in front of their home?

Were there any business, community, civic, or neighborhood associations that existed in Kathy's neighborhood in 1969?

There could be a long time association member that may know something about the bus.

I think it is a good idea that there may have been places kids knew they could catch the bus and they only had to walk to that.

also, the kid route you mentioned is probably close to what she did. she may have wanted to see if her friends, for example, were home. there weren't any reports of anyone seeing her under those circumstances, but she may have hoped to run into a friend.

there also might have been people who gave kids rides. in another (very different and different state) case i've heard about this girl knew some cab drivers. if they saw her walking, they'd pick her up and at least take her part way. this may be why the cops questioned cab drivers.

 

[December]

No, we have no idea which route she would have taken. Nolensville seemed the most logical to me. I also considered that she might have taken a left from her house and walked through the neighborhood. It would've added another quarter of a mile to the walk, but it certainly would've been friendlier. But then there's this whole question of the bus. Why walk all that way if a bus was available?

ETA: Yes, in the screencap, way down at the bottom, point B is the Roller Drome. For the record, that shows an alternate route cutting west-(ish) of Nolensville. I think even back then it was industrial/commercial prooerty, and probably the least likely route of all. JMO

I think she walked because maybe she was going outside the normal times for the bus. or maybe the bus just cost money as some have speculated and she decided she'd prefer skating and doughnuts to having a bus ride. she may have wanted hot chocolate or something which would eat into her $1 budget.

i wonder how people caught the bus for this thing... did they stand outside their houses at certain times? i wonder if people reminisicing about it would have reliable information about that.

it does seem to be a way longer walk than i first believed. so that raises some questions. does anyone know if this was more of a normal walk for kids then?

growing up, i lived about that far from dairy queen. i did walk it sometimes. but, the streets were much quieter. so, i guess it's not too much. i need photos of nashville then to get a sense of it...

 

[December]

I spent all day yesterday reading all of your posts and trying to read up on what I could. I have a few thoughts:

* Have you tried to contact Robert Wellon, the writer of the article in the Nashville Scene? He seems to have been able to gather a lot of information for his piece that isn't found anywhere else. He may be able to provide you with some other information that he didn't include in his story. He may also be able to point you in a direction on how you may be able to get other information that you are looking for.

* There has been a lot of mention that Kathy's family was not very wealthy. That the dollar that her mother gave her to get treats would have been enough to purchase a donut as well as other things back then. If the dollar was a rare treat for her to get, perhaps she didn't have money to pay to ride the RD bus. Which is why she would have been walking to go skating and not riding the bus. Assuming she was walking bc she didn't have bus money, doesn't mean the bus driver didn't see her walking with skates and offer her a free ride. However, didn't her friends say they never saw her at the RD? If she was on the bus with other kids, wouldn't they have noticed that she didn't get off the bus at the RD with them?

* If the Krispy Kreme was open 24 hours back then, wouldn't someone have seen a man drop a body into the brush? Would he have taken the risk of getting caught by disposing of a body behind a business that was open 24hrs not knowing who would be pulling in, who would be leaving, or if an employee would be coming out for a break? Perhaps it wasn't a 24 hr KK back then?

* My mind keeps asking me this question. Kathy was abducted on Saturday. She was held somewhere until Monday. Her estimated time of death was noon on Monday correct? Why would someone bring her body back to one of the 2 locations that she was suppose to have disappeared from? Isn't that a HUGE risk of getting caught? Because of the body being found behind the KK, I have two ideas about this: 1. The person that took Kathy knew that she was suppose to be at the KK that day so he knew where LE would look to find her or 2. Maybe it was an employee at the KK. Do you know if there is a list of employees in the police file?

* I see a bunch of questions about what was found in Kathy's purse, if the dollar was still with her, and about prints on the purse. Because Kathy's case is still open, I'm sure there is a box of evidence with her name and case number on it. I would assume there were pics taken at the scene of the purse and what was scattered on the ground. There should be a log somewhere that inventories what was found where and what contents were still in the purse. The purse should still be part of the saved evidence so I would think there would maybe still be prints on the purse.

* Even though you are not "next of kin", you are family. Would you be allowed to contact the detective that is assigned to the case and ask for a copy of anything they have that would be public knowledge. ie: the hours the RD was open, the RD bus schedule, the hours of operation of the KK, a list of employees at both places, the names of the friends she was suppose to be meeting, a time line of events that they have been able to confirm, etc. Because it's been almost 44 years, I'm sure there has been a change in detectives and investigators. Are you able to contact the ones that have retired and perhaps see if they can offer you any information?

maybe, if the cops don't have it, i should email kk's hq and see if they know if that kk was a 24 hour store in 1969. i think it can't have been. although my memory of when i went (way later) behind it looked forbodingly dark because all the lights were to the front and sides. so maybe this is what was happening. they picked a slow time (if it wasn't closed). the dump was quick, they threw her out and her stuff. but still, if people were around, someone could potentially have seen.

i wonder if people sometimes dumped garbage in that field and, if someone saw something, their first thought would be someone dumping garbage?

still, it is a risk calculated to shock people.

 

[December]

Not sure how much this helps, but the families that own 63, 92, 216, 309 and 321 Lutie Street have own the houses since 1969 or earlier. I don't want to post last names, but a reverse address search could probably give you names/phone numbers. Someone may remember if there was a search of the neighborhood.

those seem like excellent people for the police to ask questions of... maybe there was something going on in the neighborhood that they remember. on one marcia trimble thread someone said there was a flasher in her neighborhood before she was kidnapped. i do not think the flasher had anything to do with marcia's murder since it's solved, but that is the kind of thing i mean. someone might remember an out of place thing. something they didn't think was important enough to tell police, but has been nagging at their brains all of these long years.

 

[December]

I thought of some more questions that you might be able to ask the cold case detectives about your cousin's murder.

Not only would I ask if Kathy's neck was broken, I would ask how her neck was broken.

It could answer whether or not the broken neck appeared to be done by someone who had been in the military or had killed someone before.

I believe that the person who murdered Kathy would have to be someone who was strong and also had physical strength.

Another question that I would ask is when police launched their search for Kathy after her disappearance, were police tracking dogs ever used to see if it could pick up Kathy's scent anywhere from her home and the roller skating rink?

If police tracking dogs were used, the police may not have revealed to the public that they do have an idea of what route Kathy took and also where the tracking dog lost her scent.

what do you think about the serious wound to her neck? do you think the type of break would be part of the same thing that caused such a thing.

i believe the person was very strong. i just watched rob zombie's version of halloween. the guy who plays the murderer is 6'9". the two girls he chases most are 5'1" and 5'3". they are chanceless against him. this is about the odds i picture that Kathy was facing ... with less running around.