TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #1

[December]

I realize Harding Pl and Harding Rd are different. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. My point was that neither are close to the Hippodrome or the Roller Drome. So I don't think she meant "Harding" at all. She did specifically state the Roller Drome, and if you zoom in on the map, the street which runs right behind it is Harlin. That could explain the mistake.

I found another FB page where a guy with initials RM mentions taking the RD (actually, roller "drum") bus every Saturday morning. Everyone seems to remember the RD bus, but I haven't come across any mention of a special Hippodrome bus.

https://www.facebook.com/thenashvilleiwishiknew/posts/542221469175466

I don't mean to be so persistent, and I wouldn't be if it weren't important. If there was a RD bus that ran at night, it means Kathy might have taken it, and the report that said she left home at 7:45 could be correct.

The bus probably made stops along Nolensville, and perhaps Thompson. I wish we knew the schedule. Did it circle back and forth all evening picking up and dropping off kids? By 7:45, maybe things slowed down. Kids who were going skating were already at the rink, and no one was going home yet. Maybe Kathy waited for the bus alone. Or the driver saw her walking alone with her skates, and stopped to offer her a ride.

There are a few that are specifically talking about the rollerdrome (I don't know why they think it is 'drum', I have found things from it with the name on and it is 'drome'). Some do mention Kripsy Kreme, so I think that has to be rollerdrome, but I'm not sure.

I wonder if the police knew the schedule?

ETA
I'll try to find someone to go on FB and ask a few questions if it's possible. I don't know how FB works exactly.

another ETA
I don't mean to brush this stuff off. My rabbit is trying to eat the furniture all of a sudden so I'm posting one word at a time.

yet a 3rd eta

I'm just used to people mixing up those road. Sorry.

I don't have FB, so I'm not sure what to do. Or how to sort through these people's memories... They're definitely talking about two different places sometimes.

I have wondered if Adcox did exactly what you described...

 

[December]

Is there any way to find out what stopped the LE from pursuing Adcox after quite a while of doing so? With the use of the bus Adcox has the opportunity and ability to abduct Kathy without been seen as suspicious, he also confessed to two different people, the cell mate and the little boy.

Do you think maybe he gave the police a name and info of someone else who he thought or even he knew did it? Maybe this person had talked to Adcox, and after quite sometime Adcox gave him up but they know they can't charge this other person and use Adcox as a witness to a person's confession because any defense could claim Adcox was dropping someone else in it to protect himself, so Adcox would be classed as an unreliable witness and the LE have no proper evidence to support the guilt of the other person.

Adcox seems like the person who killed Kathy, so I wonder what got the police giving up on him as the main suspect.

Tom Shriver, District Attorney is partly why. But, then for some mysterious reason, everything is dropped against Adcox and they developed another suspect. And, from what I've heard, they've been following him since years.

I agree Adcox would be a poor witness. It's also possible he was involved somehow, but the primary murderer was a totally different person.That is all stuff they've been holding back.

Now, Adcox appears dead. So, there's that. IDK if they can use anything they got from him ever in court to prosecute someone else. Maybe that is what stalled the case.

I've heard more than one person in this case say almost word for word, 'I've done a lot of bad things, but I didn't do that.' (I didn't hear personally, it's in the media) Why is anyone believing them. They can't be prosecuting for 'a lot of bad things', but this is murder one. Maybe they're, like, lying.

It's so frustrating.

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

I just reread the article here:
http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a-killing-a-search-a-suspect/Content?oid=1182733

Specifically the parts that led police away from Adcox and toward the second suspect.

They said "CERTAIN" that they knew who the killer was (second suspect, not Adcox). Paraphrasing because I can't copy and past right now, but it seems like they know it is him, but are hoping for ONE person to come forward with the information that could put him away. ONE person who they feel may never be comfortable enough to come forward. Do you know who this person is December? Not that we should mention this possible witness here but I was just wondering if they are still living and that there is still the possibility that someone may come forward...

ETA: are they speaking of Adcox? Sorry, still having morning coffee!

 

[December]

I'm having some trouble trying to figure out how to burst in on people's happy memories of yesteryear with my horrible, dire, unpleasant questions. AND THEN, I have to pin down their pleasantly fuzzy recollections to a specific skating rink (all weather roller drome located at 523 Thompson Lane) and year 1969 (Hippodrome opened in the 1940s or earlier, IDK when rollerdrome opened>.. some people sound like they're talking about going to Hippodrome in the 50s... richer kids would be at hippodrome, btw.. so they'd have matching skirts with this and that all matching just to skate). What did girls skating in 1969 atrollerdrome have or wear?

I just don't know how to break with this... usually when I have to ask about horrible, vile things no one likes to think about, everyone wanders away. This it tthe only place I talk about any of it... how do I do it and get answers?-

eta
there were multiple locations of Krispy Kreme, too. It was a chain.. even then.

 

[December]

I just reread the article here:
http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a-killing-a-search-a-suspect/Content?oid=1182733

Specifically the parts that led police away from Adcox and toward the second suspect.

They said "CERTAIN" that they knew who the killer was (second suspect, not Adcox). Paraphrasing because I can't copy and past right now, but it seems like they know it is him, but are hoping for ONE person to come forward with the information that could put him away. ONE person who they feel may never be comfortable enough to come forward. Do you know who this person is December? Not that we should mention this possible witness here but I was just wondering if they are still living and that there is still the possibility that someone may come forward...

ETA: are they speaking of Adcox? Sorry, still having morning coffee!

I don't know who it may be. I hope it's no one in my family because there is a 90 percent chance they died years ago.

I lived in Nashville decades later and not in that neighborhood. So, a lot of these people, I didn't know. I went to that Krispy Kreme and a few other places, but I didn't realize this is where it all happened. I thought, then, it all happened over in Madison.

Maybe it was Adcox.

Or maybe it was the 8 year old boy?

 

[December]

Then Miller discusses the grim essence of his story. “There is at least one person who we have tried to get to talk to us who could possibly provide us with enough information to get this guy, but I’m not sure they’re ever going to feel comfortable in doing that.”

^^^that is a quote from the Scene article.

I think he's talking about victims of their new suspect. The new suspect is a RSO.

ETA
'new' as in newer than Adcox

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

Maybe it was Adcox.

Or maybe it was the 8 year old boy?

Now that you say that, with them saying comfortable enough to come forward, they may well be speaking of the boy...

On, and here is a pic of the roller drome token:
http://tokencatalog.com/token_recor...=248680&attribution_id=293002&td_create_uid=9
I had seen mention of it way back.

I will have to look back to check, but did you say that she still had a token on her? Or that she left with a token? If she still had it in her possession when found, she probably never made it there.

 

[December]

Now that you say that, with them saying comfortable enough to come forward, they may well be speaking of the boy...

On, and here is a pic of the roller drome token:
http://tokencatalog.com/token_recor...=248680&attribution_id=293002&td_create_uid=9
I had seen mention of it way back.

I will have to look back to check, but did you say that she still had a token on her? Or that she left with a token? If she still had it in her possession when found, she probably never made it there.

of course the boy was Adcox's victim... and they're talking about the other guy at that point. maybe they mean a relative of HIS (I am not related to him at all). a lot of times these fiends go after their own relatives, after all. (Not the boy's the RSO.)

OF course, the boy went and talked to cops right after it happened. he was a pretty brave kid i don't think he's the problem, but idk.

as for the token, idk... her purse was found, but I don't know if she had a token.

 

[KariKae]

Being that it was Thanksgiving Weekend, it could be that there were transients in town going to see people they knew or whatever and Kathy happened upon someone. I know that flies in the face of these familiar figures around town being involved, but it is a possiblity. There is a lot of trasnportation in that area and things were changing (as in the physical landscape), so there may have been things that people weren't quite aware of in their midst..

To me, Thanksgiving weekend points to a local person rather than an out-of-town visitor. If I am visiting family from out of town, my presence is going to be missed if I am gone for a full day.

But, if I am local, and my family is out of town visiting somebody else, I am free the whole weekend to do as I please....

 

[bessie]

of course the boy was Adcox's victim... and they're talking about the other guy at that point. maybe they mean a relative of HIS (I am not related to him at all). a lot of times these fiends go after their own relatives, after all. (Not the boy's the RSO.)

OF course, the boy went and talked to cops right after it happened. he was a pretty brave kid i don't think he's the problem, but idk.

as for the token, idk... her purse was found, but I don't know if she had a token.

I think you're right. The boy was Adcox's victim. The latest suspect wasn't Adcox.

In addition, Miller says he and other detectives began developing some information on another subject.

http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a-killing-a-search-a-suspect/Content?oid=1182733

So the person they hoped would come forward was probably a victim of that other subject and/or a close family member who knew his secrets.

 

[BOESP]

Here's the map link again and an image of the walking route. I think it's possible to find what occupied some of the addresses along the way in 1969.

http://goo.gl/maps/m0QyR

Bessie, I may have missed something in the thread, but is it known for sure that the route on the map is the one she walked? I am thinking she cut through the streets, going left from her house instead of right. Nolensville Road was extremely busy back then and I doubt a child would have been "allowed" to walk that way. Taking a short cut through yards might also have been a possibility.

Is "Point B" the Rollerdrome with Thompson Lane is just off the the screen capture or is it the field behind the old Krispy Kreme? TIA

 

[bessie]

To me, Thanksgiving weekend points to a local person rather than an out-of-town visitor. If I am visiting family from out of town, my presence is going to be missed if I am gone for a full day.

But, if I am local, and my family is out of town visiting somebody else, I am free the whole weekend to do as I please....

That makes sense, but what if you weren't visiting family? What if you were on your own for some R&R over the long weekend? OR you spent Thursday and Friday with family, and ended your visit by Saturday night? Actually, I think the perp was local, but when I noticed the motel on the corner of KJ's street, and another business along Nolensville that I'm almost certain was at one time a motel, it gave me reason to wonder if the perp was a traveler.

 

[bessie]

Bessie, I may have missed something in the thread, but is it known for sure that the route on the map is the one she walked? I am thinking she cut through the streets, going left from her house instead of right. Nolensville Road was extremely busy back then and I doubt a child would have been "allowed" to walk that way. Taking a short cut through yards might also have been a possibility.

Is "Point B" the Rollerdrome with Thompson Lane is just off the the screen capture or is it the field behind the old Krispy Kreme? TIA

No, we have no idea which route she would have taken. Nolensville seemed the most logical to me. I also considered that she might have taken a left from her house and walked through the neighborhood. It would've added another quarter of a mile to the walk, but it certainly would've been friendlier. But then there's this whole question of the bus. Why walk all that way if a bus was available?

ETA: Yes, in the screencap, way down at the bottom, point B is the Roller Drome. For the record, that shows an alternate route cutting west-(ish) of Nolensville. I think even back then it was industrial/commercial prooerty, and probably the least likely route of all. JMO

 

[Labpawsx12]

I spent all day yesterday reading all of your posts and trying to read up on what I could. I have a few thoughts:

* Have you tried to contact Robert Wellon, the writer of the article in the Nashville Scene? He seems to have been able to gather a lot of information for his piece that isn't found anywhere else. He may be able to provide you with some other information that he didn't include in his story. He may also be able to point you in a direction on how you may be able to get other information that you are looking for.

* There has been a lot of mention that Kathy's family was not very wealthy. That the dollar that her mother gave her to get treats would have been enough to purchase a donut as well as other things back then. If the dollar was a rare treat for her to get, perhaps she didn't have money to pay to ride the RD bus. Which is why she would have been walking to go skating and not riding the bus. Assuming she was walking bc she didn't have bus money, doesn't mean the bus driver didn't see her walking with skates and offer her a free ride. However, didn't her friends say they never saw her at the RD? If she was on the bus with other kids, wouldn't they have noticed that she didn't get off the bus at the RD with them?

* If the Krispy Kreme was open 24 hours back then, wouldn't someone have seen a man drop a body into the brush? Would he have taken the risk of getting caught by disposing of a body behind a business that was open 24hrs not knowing who would be pulling in, who would be leaving, or if an employee would be coming out for a break? Perhaps it wasn't a 24 hr KK back then?

* My mind keeps asking me this question. Kathy was abducted on Saturday. She was held somewhere until Monday. Her estimated time of death was noon on Monday correct? Why would someone bring her body back to one of the 2 locations that she was suppose to have disappeared from? Isn't that a HUGE risk of getting caught? Because of the body being found behind the KK, I have two ideas about this: 1. The person that took Kathy knew that she was suppose to be at the KK that day so he knew where LE would look to find her or 2. Maybe it was an employee at the KK. Do you know if there is a list of employees in the police file?

* I see a bunch of questions about what was found in Kathy's purse, if the dollar was still with her, and about prints on the purse. Because Kathy's case is still open, I'm sure there is a box of evidence with her name and case number on it. I would assume there were pics taken at the scene of the purse and what was scattered on the ground. There should be a log somewhere that inventories what was found where and what contents were still in the purse. The purse should still be part of the saved evidence so I would think there would maybe still be prints on the purse.

* Even though you are not "next of kin", you are family. Would you be allowed to contact the detective that is assigned to the case and ask for a copy of anything they have that would be public knowledge. ie: the hours the RD was open, the RD bus schedule, the hours of operation of the KK, a list of employees at both places, the names of the friends she was suppose to be meeting, a time line of events that they have been able to confirm, etc. Because it's been almost 44 years, I'm sure there has been a change in detectives and investigators. Are you able to contact the ones that have retired and perhaps see if they can offer you any information?

 

[nerosleuth]

No, we have no idea which route she would have taken. Nolensville seemed the most logical to me. I also considered that she might have taken a left from her house and walked through the neighborhood.

But then there's this whole question of the bus. Why walk all that way if a bus was available?

That's true we don't know which route Kathy took when she left home going to the roller skating rink.

But consider this here. Kathy could have taken a right from her house and walked through the neighborhood. I see two possible routes here.

The first route is taking Lutie Street to Foster Ave, and taking Foster to cut thru Coleman Park to reach Thompson Lane & Nolensville Pike.

The second and probably the most logical route, is that Kathy took Lutie Street to Burbank Ave, took Burbank to Joyner Ave, cut thru a field to reach Whitsett Road & Fannie Williams Street, took Fannie Williams to go thru another field to reach Coleman Park, and went thru Coleman Park to reach Thompson Lane & Nolensville Pike.

That would be a simple straight shot route if a kid wanted to take a short cut going thru fields and lots.

The big question here about the bus is where did it pick the kids up at?

Did it meet at an intersection, a parking lot at a business, church, neighborhood public library, or school? Or did it pick kids up in front of their home?

Were there any business, community, civic, or neighborhood associations that existed in Kathy's neighborhood in 1969?

There could be a long time association member that may know something about the bus.

 

[nerosleuth]

I thought of some more questions that you might be able to ask the cold case detectives about your cousin's murder.

Not only would I ask if Kathy's neck was broken, I would ask how her neck was broken.

It could answer whether or not the broken neck appeared to be done by someone who had been in the military or had killed someone before.

I believe that the person who murdered Kathy would have to be someone who was strong and also had physical strength.

Another question that I would ask is when police launched their search for Kathy after her disappearance, were police tracking dogs ever used to see if it could pick up Kathy's scent anywhere from her home and the roller skating rink?

If police tracking dogs were used, the police may not have revealed to the public that they do have an idea of what route Kathy took and also where the tracking dog lost her scent.

 

[Labpawsx12]

I found this youtube video of the tunnel. In the description the poster says they used to skate at the RD as a kid. There are 3 comments and one says they used to work at the business that took over the RD building in the 70's. Perhaps you could contact each of those people that posted and see if they remember the bus schedule and/or the hours the RD was open.

The old Thompson Lane Tunnel / Underpass in Nashville Tennessee - YouTube

 

[Labpawsx12]

Found a pic of the admission prices and skate rentals for the Hippodrome. I know she was going to the RD but I imagine the prices were around the same. Since Kathy had her own skates, she would have only needed to pay .50 for admission. So if she did make it inside, subtract that from the dollar she was carrying.

 

[x117236]

Not sure how much this helps, but the families that own 63, 92, 216, 309 and 321 Lutie Street have own the houses since 1969 or earlier. I don't want to post last names, but a reverse address search could probably give you names/phone numbers. Someone may remember if there was a search of the neighborhood.

 

[December]

things are going on in my personal life, I appreciate everyone commenting and your excellent ideas. I'll get to them asap, but it might be tomorrow. I'm sorry for this to come up now.