TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #1

[Tulessa]

Back to creepy things...

Nov. 29 is the 333rd day of the year in non-leap years (1969 was not a leap year, so it was the 333rde of 1969) with only 32 days left in the year (in this case decade).

Here is some information about 11/29

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_29

Bolded by me, I send nightly Cherokee prayers out for you my friend, in hopes that this will be solved, and I truly believe, it is solvable.

 

[December]

What happened to Kathy during the 36 hours after she left her house is numbing to consider. She died sometime around noon on Monday, Dec. 1;

from here
http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a-killing-a-search-a-suspect/Content?oid=1182733

I know that doesn't answer the question of rigidity, lividity, or all that other stuff. But, just to start with, this is what the coroner stated as her time of death. She disappeared sometimes 11/29/69. Possibly after 7:45 p.m. But, I really think it was longer than that. I just do not think Nora would have let Kathy go strolling around Nashville in the middle of the night. If it was that late, there must have been some extenuating circumstances.

But, then, there's this...

Blood is here and there.

(also from the scene)

Although Kathy died of suffocation, there were several places from which she might have been blending...

Her neck where there were "several almond shaped cuts"
Her chest where there was "a puncture wound"
From the areas where she'd been raped (for people who have not reading the Scene article.. which is pretty detailed and disturbing), her rape was EXTREMELY severe.

I know if a person't heart isn't pumping blood then you won't bleed per se, but if you have cuts and someone throws you down a certain way.. would some blood just leak out?

But, still, maybe they grievously abuse her in one location to the point where they thought she was dead, but then got her to the place where they left her and realize she was barely alive so they quickly murdered her there? (But, most of the crime happened elsewhere.)

From things my family was told, the police do not think the crime (or most of the crime) took place behind the KK. They thought she'd been held by someone for a period of time and horribly abused.

 

[December]

***WARNING*** Description is graphic.

For that matter, it could've been a motel room. I don't know, but the positioning of her body and her belongings doesn't read like a dump site to me. I wonder if anything was missing. For instance, only one skate is mentioned. Of course, that doesn't mean the other one wasn't present. It only leaves another question mark.

Also, what about the puncture wound in the chest? I wonder how deep it was. And blood "here and there". On Kathy? In the grass? Here and where?

Don't mind me, December. I'm just thinking aloud. I know you can't answer these questions.

- Short blonde hair. Naked in the weeds,
- lying on her right side, back bent, arms tied behind her with plaid cloth.
- Her eyes are slightly open, and her head is pushed far back...
- her blouse tied around her mouth and neck.
- Her throat has several almond shaped cuts.
- There is a puncture wound below her small left breast.
- Blood is here and there.
- Her right leg is straight
- her left knee is drawn almost to her waist.
- both vaginal and anal penetration
- Her buttocks are nearly black from the bruises.
- What clothes weren’t used to bind and gag her are crumpled beside her.
- a little glove with a checkered, Christmasy design
- Her coat lies in front of her
- white underwear are wadded on the ground against her chest
- Scattered on the grass are her purse and a deck of her playing cards.
- Beside her thigh, on its wheels, ready to be picked up and put on, is a clean, white, leather roller skate.

http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/a-killing-a-search-a-suspect/Content?oid=1182733

The only thing I would add to this list is the rape(s) were vicioius, just vicious. I think the reporter was really disturbed by the way she looked, and I have always been told (after I got old enough to hear anything about rape) she was held somewhere, beaten, and VIOLENTLY raped.

This is why I have started to think ... what if it was multiple people? What if some murderer who jail::jail::jail decided to invite his SICKO buddies over to have a go on a little girl. I have heard of these things before.

There was a teenage girl they actually interviewd (this wasn't in Tennessee and it was more recent) where she said she was invited to a party (by a girl her own age) and the next thing she knows, she's in some random house and tied to a bed getting raped over and over. She saw guys pay at the door to come into the room. Some just pretty much had sex with her. Some deliberately hurt her.

She just physically handled it better because she was older and more developed. Also, they gave her alcohol or drugs and that relaxed her whereas, it's pretty obvious.. Kathy tensed up so that made it worse (I am not blaming her or the other girl, just saying logically a girl who has been somewhat sedated will respond differently than a younger girl who is TERRIFIED out of her mind and fully sober)

But, the teenage girl was saved when they were taking her from that house to some other location and her brother saw her and basically flung himself on the truck she was in until he got her free and dragged her off with him. Her whole family was out frantically driving everywhere looking for her. By then they have called police and traced down the fact that there never was any party (the liar "friend' gave her a random address for the imaginary party).

She had a very detailed description of what happened though being in a dark room and not completely sober made it hard to get some details. So, this was a legit thing and the police they interviewed said, "this happened all the time".

Did something like that happen to Kathy?

 

[December]

Bolded by me, I send nightly Cherokee prayers out for you my friend, in hopes that this will be solved, and I truly believe, it is solvable.

Thank you, Tulessa. I appreciate your prayers.

I think it is solvable. I think other murders have pulled police and resources away from it over the years. I think, left to their own devices, the police would've solved it because they do not want such a person wandering around snatching children. But, there are many other crimes...

Also, I wonder if it was solvable in 1969... they used the typical police methods of the day to attempt to do it. But, maybe that wasn't enough. Maybe they really, really needed that autopsy they never got.

 

[December]

No, I haven't opened one yet. I also didn't find much on it when I searched. I'll open one later.

I wonder if Theresa was killed by someone who was mad at her father. That person might have watched the house for a time when he could find her alone and snatch her. I suppose the killer could also be a woman since the little girl wasn't raped and she was very small. That murderer would clearly have absolutely no conscience, but might be able to hide it to an extent.

 

[December]

Yes, that is really odd. What are the chances Theresa's family was responsible for her death? She was found in the Garbage can two feet from the kitchen door??!!

Exactly. And why would they call the cops if they had done it and put her such a place? Unless the both of them were total psychos (which no one ever said they were, so I am going to say they were not), whhy would they do it in such a self incriminating manner?

 

[December]

Oh, one thing I do know,

The police found both of her skates.

 

[December]

Kathy's playing cards.. here is something I am wondering... was Kathy just going to pick up a doughnut and go skating? Or was she going to hang out at KK for a while? A dollar buys a goodly amount of treats at KK in 1969 and the impression I've always had is that dollar was entirely for KK. So, was she going to hang out there for a while? And maybe play cards with someone? From things I've always heard, I never really had the impression that she was just going to grab a doughnut and dash.. I've always thought she was going to spend time there. So, doing what? Did kids her age hang out there? Older people would come in and out, but maybe they didn't stay long. I can't remember how many tables were there, but more than a few.

ETA
It's been my experience that, even in Nashville as late as the turn of the century, if you wanted to hang out certain places... as long as you were considerate... they did not mind. Especially if you bought stuff now and then. So, a bunch of little girls sitting at a table eating doughnuts and playing cards (which I do not know if this happened, but hypothetically) would have been just fine at KK. I don't know about the one now; I've never been in there.

 

[December]

I can't link this article I found because it is VERY GRAPHIC. But, I did just find an article about Satanic rituals in a cave in North Carolina close to the Tennessee border (I don't know when). I just never read anything about Satanism and caves before.

 

[Tulessa]

Thank you, Tulessa. I appreciate your prayers.

I think it is solvable. I think other murders have pulled police and resources away from it over the years. I think, left to their own devices, the police would've solved it because they do not want such a person wandering around snatching children. But, there are many other crimes...

Also, I wonder if it was solvable in 1969... they used the typical police methods of the day to attempt to do it. But, maybe that wasn't enough. Maybe they really, really needed that autopsy they never got.

It's the DNA advancement, that is bringing these cold cases to justice.

 

[December]

MURFREESBORO, Tenn. -- A self-confessed Satanist is behind bars charged with abusing a five-year-old boy. Detectives suspect it may have been part of a satanic ritual or torture.

snip

Police also arrested the child's mother Elizabeth Hoagland for failing to protect her son.

The police report stated doctors discovered multiple injuries including a laceration to the liver and kidney contusions. When a doctor asked the child what happened and he replied, "I am not allowed to say."

snip

convicted Tennessee sex offender

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/1...charges?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

He pulled out a red CoS card and showed it to police like that was a normal thing to do.

 

[December]

It's the DNA advancement, that is bringing these cold cases to justice.

This is true!

 

[December]

A blog post about the John Lotts, Jr. abuse charges. They just don't think it is fair that the newspaper reported that dude whipped out his little Satan club card.
http://backwardmessages.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/is-satanism-worse-than-child-abuse/

(Which, I mean, it's not like they found it on him... he showed it to them.)

Anyway, confirms that such cards exist.

 

[December]

The Lillelid murders refers to a criminal case in Greeneville, Tennessee, United States in 1997. A Norwegian-Honduran-American family of Jehovah's Witnesses were carjacked and then shot; three of the four were killed. Six young people were convicted and sentenced for the crime.[1]

snip

Six young people—Natasha Wallen Cornett, 18; Edward Dean Mullins, 19; Joseph Lance Risner, 20; Crystal R. Sturgill, 18; Jason Blake Bryant, 14; and Karen R. Howell, 17—were arrested two days after the killings. The six individuals were taken into custody in Arizona after trying to cross the Mexican border in the van which they had stolen from the Lillelid family.[2] All of the perpetrators had difficult childhoods and lived on the edge of the law.[1]

snip

During the trial Natasha Cornett said her first attorney coached her to say she was the "Daughter of Satan".[4] District Attorney Berkeley Bell considered the Satanic angle a distraction and was relieved when Cornett's first attorney was replaced.[5] References were made by witnesses and prosecutors at trial to rumors that the six were involved with occultism and Satanism, however no evidence was presented and this omission was cited in Ms. Cornett's unsuccessful 2002 appeal of her conviction.[6]

Lillelid murders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just a spree killing or was it what some people said?

 

[TrixieBel]

A blog post about the John Lotts, Jr. abuse charges. They just don't think it is fair that the newspaper reported that dude whipped out his little Satan club card.
http://backwardmessages.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/is-satanism-worse-than-child-abuse/

(Which, I mean, it's not like they found it on him... he showed it to them.)

Anyway, confirms that such cards exist.

That is one EVIL looking man. If you can call him a man.

 

[TrixieBel]

Exactly. And why would they call the cops if they had done it and put her such a place? Unless the both of them were total psychos (which no one ever said they were, so I am going to say they were not), whhy would they do it in such a self incriminating manner?

Found Theresa on Ancestry, and her family members. Her Father died in 1995, and was divorced from her mother. She has some siblings still alive on FB. Also found her father's obit.
Nothing on Theresa's murder though.

 

[December]

That is one EVIL looking man. If you can call him a man.

He is. That poor little boy's mother must be just as bad if she would let such a person around her young child.

The thing is.. why did he pull out the card? He must have thought the police would let him go, that's why. IDK, maybe someone else claimed that they pulled theirs and got let go so he just figured that's how things work? Because he didn't pull out any Costco card or whatever, he pulled his CoS card.

ETA
I mean he is evil looking.

 

[December]

Found Theresa on Ancestry, and her family members. Her Father died in 1995, and was divorced from her mother. She has some siblings still alive on FB. Also found her father's obit.
Nothing on Theresa's murder though.

They didn't even do a "preceded in death by" for Theresa? Maybe he got remarried and the person who put down the info for the obit didn't think about Theresa?

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

I missed this before if it was mentioned, so just wanted to put it up here.

From this article: from December 3rd
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...1FPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PSQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4627,5631238

It says three men were questioned about Kathy.. Also says one of these men was arrested the day after she was found for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Hmmm... Could this be where they try to arrest a suspect to hold him until they can gather enough evidence for the higher charges, do y'all think?

Any way we can figure out who all was arrested on That Tuesday? (Dec 2nd I believe). Police blotter for that day? Maybe?

It also states the head of homicide was lt. Kenneth reasonover and the medical examiner was Michael Petrone. 16 men were assigned to the case...

 

[December]

I missed this before if it was mentioned, so just wanted to put it up here.

From this article: from December 3rd
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...1FPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PSQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4627,5631238

It says three men were questioned about Kathy.. Also says one of these men was arrested the day after she was found for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Hmmm... Could this be where they try to arrest a suspect to hold him until they can gather enough evidence for the higher charges, do y'all think?

Any way we can figure out who all was arrested on That Tuesday? (Dec 2nd I believe). Police blotter for that day? Maybe?

It also states the head of homicide was lt. Kenneth reasonover and the medical examiner was Michael Petrone. 16 men were assigned to the case...

Thank you for that article. I can't believe on Dec. 3, 1969 the press in Nashville was already buring the article under something to do with soft drink machines going from 10 to 15 cents. I mean REALLY?!

But, for as buried and brief as it is there is alot of good information in it.

ETA
It's from Hendersonville, NC.. o.k., that explains it.