Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #10

[Kapua]

I believe both were to throw off LE. Once they were out of Tennessee, i bet he had ET turn on her phone... put it in silent mode.. wrap it in a fast food bag or something similar and ditch it in a garbage can. The phone may have died at 3:06pm.. and they were long gone. There is no way they lollygagged around and just arrived in Decatur at 3pm. He knew that LE would assume he was going south and he immediately went west. They stay off the grid for the next two nights.. probably staying in rural Arkansas on 3/13 and rural Oklahoma the night of the 14th. When he's ready to make his next change in direction.. he decides to make a quick stop at a Walmart. There is NO way he goes to a Walmart unless it's to throw off LE. There are thousands of other places he could've picked up food off the grid.

Where he went from there is anyone's guess. Oklahoma City is essentially the center of the US and he knew that.

My guess is that they're off to a warmer climate, so south or west make sense to me. :cow:

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Right. I've read every post and article (that I know of). I just don't think, based on a few different things, that she was all in. She seemed to be conflicted. And perhaps she was not aware, but it seems clear to me that she was being manipulated and groomed for quite a while before this. I think she probably quickly learned of his dark side as soon as they left. My guess is that they are in a classic abuse cycle (easy to Google). This would explain her appearing to be totally fine with him.

This isn't directed at any specific poster, but it's confusing to me why people pick certain things to believe or theorize, but others they completely dismiss. For example, the swimsuit and posts about tropical getaway destinations. People seem(ed) to think this means they are definitely on a beach somewhere, or swimming. But don't believe he was in the CIA, and other crazy lies. I'm baffled because I don't think he had a close relationship with honesty and integrity.

On another note, I don't understand why anyone thinks he won't be able to be charged with kidnapping. I'm no LEO or attorney or anything, but as far as I know, this is a possible federal case of kidnapping.

Ha, I just ranted a bit. Hopefully this all makes sense!

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

thank you for your ''rant'. Well said.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

They wont need one, IMO. Those viewing this situation as an incorrigible teen stubbornly intent on being with the man of her dreams are simply not understanding the nuance of abuse, exploitation, dependency and the teenage brain, I think.

Agree. Just threw that out there for those who think it's not a serious crime to alleviate their fears. (A little reverse psychology). I myself believe it's a very serious crime and not a misdemeanor.

 

[gitana1]

O

Catching up.

This is all JMO

With the news now showing they were in the walmart in OKC we now know a few things for sure IMO

*1 She is willingly staying with him for now.
There are many complex reasons for that including and not limited to many of the reasons that many have touched on.

**It was more appealing to go with him as compared to current school issues and past homelife issues. Kids at school can be very cruel and past abuse from Mom continued to scare her because if the courts ever allow Mom to regain custody then there was that danger on her mind.

*2 He can be found and caught.

**He is not some magical expert at hiding from LE. At certain times they both will be amongst us hiding in plain sight for all to see. They might not be together at times because I suspect there will be times where just one of them will run an errand for supplies.

*3 They will stay in the 50 states to keep under our great legal protections here in the states.

**If they go to another country they lose certain legal protections and lose some safety and he is well aware of that. I am pretty sure he has had horrible thoughts of some of the prison conditions in some of the countries he has visited and this is why I really doubt he will leave the 50 states.

*4 They died their hair and they are both taking steps not to be recognized.

**This will continue and they will take further steps to disguise themselves as they learn what works and doesnt work. I am sure there have been other sightings that were reported and LE has held those secret from the public. But they both know when they are spotted because they see peoples reactions. They are learning to get better at it and they will take many more different steps to disguise. Clothing, Makeup, Haircuts, Glasses, etc. We should expect major differences in their looks.

***He looks like so many other guys that it is difficult to recognize him. Ive seen so many guys lately with his look that it is hard to recognize him. The public and LE need to never assume it is not him because it could be him as we pass people. We need to stay diligent. Even the singer on one of the Saturday morning shows looked just like him.

With deep respect, IMO none of that is clear at all. Elizabeth Smart walked around "willingly" with her captor. Went to parties and didn't say a word. Didn't try to run when he was jailed for two weeks. Even lied about her identity when cops moved her away from her captors and asked her who she was. Was she "in love" with that monster and with him of her own volition?

Same thing with Jaycee Dugard. She had times where she had the physical freedom to run. And did not. She also lied at first about who she was. Wasnshe with him willingly?

The list goes on.

The fact that an abused and exploited teen is seen walking without chains with her predator does not mean she is some stubborn teenage delinquent trying to live out a romance with this old predator.

And to assume so is to totally discount and disbelieve family reports that: a) she told a sibling to look for her if she wasn't home by 6:00 pm. b) she kept excitedly pestering a brother to make sure he showed up for her confirmation that upcoming weekend. c) she hid from the predator on several occasions some just days before her disappearance, when he would show up at her work.

I believe all of that is true.

For many it seems hard to reconcile posts on SM she made about and to this guy, as well as emails they shared, and her behavior in grabbing belongings and going off with him, with a scared victim. How can both scenarios be true?

To me it's clear. Immaturity. Vulnerability. Manipulation. Exploitation. Control. Coercion. Abuse.

Its funny you mention Foxfire - I have thought the same thing. Foxfire would be all over LE not releasing the sighting sooner.

But didn't they release the sighting as soon as they got it and confirmed it? They got it Thursday.

She didn't even have enough clothes to last two days. This is what I meant by under-prepared.

Which supports the theory that this kid really didn't understand the reality of what the predator was intending. Why not bring many more clothes?

 

[MommyDoll2]

Agree awefull

Do we know that ET is Catholic? Not sure which thread discussed her brother as her sponsor, but I am Catholic and I remember the family member saying she was looking forward to receiving The sacrament. This made me think she might be Lutheran. Catholics typically have their 1st Communion in elementary school and confirmation in early high school. Lutheran's have confirmation in middle-high school and after they are confirmed they are allowed to take communion. I have read all of the posts but I may have missed something so just sharing my thoughts when I read the comments back when they were posted.

Praying for solid leads today!

 

[MsMtOlympus]

He's convinced her he's CIA. He could be telling her he's got powers he doesn't have. He could be telling her she's in danger and only he can protect her now.

IMO, ET's prior victimization and educational experience (i.e. the pathetic attempt at homeschooling by her abuser) make her even more vulnerable and gullible than the average teenager. The fact that TC exploits this to his advantage makes me physically nauseous to even consider. And this is BEFORE I even factor in that he is fifty and she is fifteen. :stormingmad:

 

[jellybean96]

Do we know that ET is Catholic? Not sure which thread discussed her brother as her sponsor, but I am Catholic and I remember the family member saying she was looking forward to receiving The sacrament. This made me think she might be Lutheran. Catholics typically have their 1st Communion in elementary school and confirmation in early high school. Lutheran's have confirmation in middle-high school and after they are confirmed they are allowed to take communion. I have read all of the posts but I may have missed something so just sharing my thoughts when I read the comments back when they were posted.

Praying for solid leads today!

I believe her sister confirmed she is Catholic, as well as her dad early on. TC is not Catholic though - ET's family was and she attended both Catholic services as well as whatever church services TC was attending.

 

[pegs]

Yeah, we have debated whether or not its actually a gun a few pages back. Some think its a gun, some think its an optical illusion because of the way his shirt disappears into the background.

I thought it could be a back brace.

 

[KaaBoom]

I'm a Tennessee lawyer, just sort of coincidentally. A DUI first offense is a misdemeanor.


What Tad has done here is arguably aggravated kidnapping because he is in possession of a deadly weapon. In Tennessee, aggravated kidnapping is a class B felony pursuant to TCA 39-13-304. He is probably also at this point (MOO) guilty of aggravated statutory rape, a class D felony pursuant to TCA 39-13-506(c), and statutory rape by an authority figure, a class C felony pursuant to TCA 39-13-532.


What he has done is also a federal crime because he has transported the minor child across state lines. I am less familiar with federal criminal law but I would imagine that he is subject to federal criminal liability for kidnapping across state lines and transporting a minor across state lines for sexual purposes. These are probably felonies.


I'm annoyed at the constant theme on this thread that what this slimeball has done is "not that illegal." Yes. It IS illegal and it is wrong! It doesn't matter if the child thinks she wants this. At all.

So you are saying that anyone who travels with another person is guilty of kidnapping if they have a legal weapon with them? That doesn't make any sense. Guns are legal in this country. It's not a crime to have a gun.

Also what is the federal law you are referring to specifically? If what you say is true, then why was Maciej Ignaciuk and other similar offenders not charged with these more severe charges that you claim would apply? Can you give any examples of any similar cases where an offender was convicted of the charges that you claim would apply?

BTW a fourth DUI offense in TN is a Class E Felony, the same penalty as TC will likely receive.

DUI Offenses

 

[JerseyGirl]

That could be when they dyed their hair...I wonder if they did meet up with someone in the Decatur area who was initially going to help them but then had second thoughts about getting involved.

So she most likely turned her phone on in Decatur and it was then shut down, just enough to ping once.

That was Monday afternoon around 3:00pm, at least stay long enough to dye the hair, figure they drove from Decatur towards Oklahoma City Monday night or Tuesday, slept at a rest area. Perhpas overnight in the OKC Walmart parking lot Wednesday night and needed to shop for food and such on Thursday?

Is it a 24-hour Walmart? I don't recall what time they were seen in OKC?

 

[pegs]

Why would he head to Decatur to get to Okalahoma city? Why go south and then west? Is there some route that makes that desirable? Was it to throw LE off? I mean, by the time they hit OKC, the AA was just being sounded in TN, so he didn't need to bother heading south before heading west, so why?

I thought about this too. I have wondered if the "friend" who was going to help them was in Decatur so they headed there, Maybe when they called the "friend" in Decator (explains the ping) they found that friend didn't want to help. So then they switched to plan B and headed west. I hope LE is scouring Decatur for any contacts TC or ET may have had there.

 

[pegs]

What's interesting to me is that they didn't have the info until Thursday. Why? What stood out to the person reporting that was so significant that they remembered it, a couple weeks later I'm assuming, when they saw reports about this case and put two and two together?

Maybe the person who called it in was TC because he wanted to taunt LE. He may have been annoyed that nobody caught his attempt at showing his superiority and just reported it himself. I believe it was meant to send a message.

 

[gitana1]

IMO, ET's prior victimization and educational experience (i.e. the pathetic attempt at homeschooling by her abuser) make her even more vulnerable and gullible than the average teenager. The fact that TC exploits this to his advantage makes me physically nauseous to even consider. And this is BEFORE I even factor in that he is fifty and she is fifteen.

:stormingmad:

Bingo! You know I'm aware that there are sophisticated teens out there who have a higher level of cunning or maturity or whatever. They still all deal with frontal love development issues but yeah, some are more sophisticated than others.

I just don't think ET is that kid

How can you tell? Well looking at their patterns of behavior and communication is one way. To me, ET's were decidedly young. She wasnt the teen some have discussed who talks about religion, politics, philosophy, art or literature. She wasn't some practiced teen criminal out burglarizing houses or hurting other kids for fun. She seemed to me be a little girl with romantic fantasies and self esteem issues, as well as a desire for status and to rise above those who bullied her.

Another thing to look at is the history of the kid. Many homeschooled kids can lack the sophistication of kids who go to public school and who are exposed to a wider diversity of people, thought and experiences. (Note I said "many", not all. I'm not debating the merits of homeschooling).


ET had been homeschooled most of her life and reportedly had been having trouble fitting in.


Besides educational history is any history of past abuse or exploitation. That can make a child even more vulnerable to further exploitation and abuse as you have so clearly pointed out. Yes, for some it can force them to grow up and give them a "burnt by the sun" sort of knowingness. But in others it can do the opposite and create a child whose desire for normalcy and happiness makes them have a hard time seeing the dangers of a dangled carrot.


We know that ET was abused in the past.


Then there is there conduct in relation to whatever significant event has occurred. Like a crime that they are either a part of as victim of perp. Did their conduct indicate an understanding of actual consequences? Did they display a cunning in trying to cover up the crime or did they inadvertently or purposefully leave clues about what was going to happen or had happened?


I think ET showed no understanding of the reality of getting in a car with her predator.


Finally, and very important, is there an imbalance of power involved? In situations where a minor is involved in a crime either as a possible perp, a
victim or both, we look at who else is involved. Was there an older person involved who may have been manipulating the situation? Controlling the child? Influencing or orchestrating what was going on?


Like in the Jeffrey Easley case (the 12 year old he took after murdering her mother). The very presence of an adult or older child who has greater power, knowledge, cunning, resources, experience or sophistication in a situation involving a crime, may indicate a lower level of sophistication of the child involved. That's because predatory people pick victims or underlings they can coerce or manipulate.


All in all I see ET as a very unsophisticated kid even for her age who is in deep danger and has no idea what to do and how to get out of it.

 

[GigTu]

bbm

There really aren't any. You'd have to go to the Gulf Coast or to Florida for that. It's pretty nice in Baja, on the Gulf of California (Sea of Cortez), but that's Mexico.

I'm guessing he does not know that.

 

[KaaBoom]

18 minus 15 is 3 years, not 2. And you're really stretching it assuming she will still be into him in 3 years. The shine is gonna wear off fast and if she's returned to her family, she'll figured out in therapy that she's been taken advantage of. You're really underestimating the incredible amount of frontal lobe development that occurs in those 3 years.

Thanks for the math lesson, but I can do math just fine. She will be 16 next month. So she will be 18 in 2 years and 1 month. She is very close to being a legal adult with the right to make her own decisions.

 

[GigTu]

IMO, ET's prior victimization and educational experience (i.e. the pathetic attempt at homeschooling by her abuser) make her even more vulnerable and gullible than the average teenager. The fact that TC exploits this to his advantage makes me physically nauseous to even consider. And this is BEFORE I even factor in that he is fifty and she is fifteen. :stormingmad:

This predator needs to just be removed from earth. I'm becoming less sleuthy and more angry by the minute. I hope I see them, he hopes I don't. I'm going straight for his creepy pedophile eyes!

 

[gitana1]

Maybe the person who called it in was TC because he wanted to taunt LE. He may have been annoyed that nobody caught his attempt at showing his superiority and just reported it himself. I believe it was meant to send a message.

Hmm. He'd have to know how long they kept their videos for though and somehow I would think he would strut more and take more care about his appearance. It's possible.

 

[Mom24]

So you are saying that anyone who travels with another person is guilty of kidnapping if they have a legal weapon with them? That doesn't make any sense. Guns are legal in this country. It's not a crime to have a gun.

Also what is the federal law you are referring to specifically? If what you say is true, then why was Maciej Ignaciuk and other similar offenders not charged with these more severe charges that you claim would apply? Can you give any examples of any similar cases where an offender was convicted of the charges that you claim would apply?

BTW a fourth DUI offense in TN is a Class E Felony, the same penalty as TC will likely receive.

DUI Offenses

Yes, anyone who kidnaps a minor and is in possession of weapon. I think the breakdown in understanding is the term "anyone". 18 is the age in which a child becomes an adult in this country. Until the age of 18, they are not a legal adult and therefore in custody of an adult who is responsible for their welfare. Most times, this is a parent, other times it's a family member or some other court appointed adult. If at 17 a child runs away from home, the police will find the child and return them to whoever has legal custody. In this case the "anyone" is a minor child whose father has been issued sole legal custody. Anyone who takes or harbors ET is guilty of custodial interference or kidnapping, whether the child is there of their own volition or not. If a minor child runs away to your home and you harbor them, you can be charged with custodial interference or even kidnapping. Unless a minor becomes emancipated, they are the custodial property of whatever adult has legal custody. In the same respect, the adult who has custody is responsible for their well being, which is why even at the age of 15 her mother can be charged with neglect if she fails in her duties as a caregiver. Minor child, under 18, these are the rules.

 

[perfectingpink]

New images of Tennessee teen allegedly abducted by teacher give hope to girl's family

“He was certainly putting a lot of planning into disappearing,” Brent Cooper, the district attorney for Maury County, Tennessee, told ABC News earlier this week. “He searched what size mattress will fit in the back of a Nissan Rogue.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/surveillan...gedly-abducted-teacher-give/story?id=46512328

 

[alas]

Thanks! I've been around since the CT case in East Tennessee, but I'm happy to be formally welcomed.

Welcome Lori! I too was brought here by the CT case.

Sent from my LG-K540 using Tapatalk