Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #10

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Jmo, we have a very conflicted relationship with age in this country. Juries have convicted teens as young as 13 of murder, giving life without parole, yet one must be 18 to have a drink or get married without parental permission.
 
bbm

There really aren't any. You'd have to go to the Gulf Coast or to Florida for that. It's pretty nice in Baja, on the Gulf of California (Sea of Cortez), but that's Mexico.

My parents lived in San Felipe, BC for over ten years. There is a ton of Americans down there year round. There is also lots of tourism. They would blend in. People use American bought Dish Network or Direct TV to watch television though so hopefully they are blasting it on the news in Southern California.
 
Why would he head to Decatur to get to Okalahoma city? Why go south and then west? Is there some route that makes that desirable? Was it to throw LE off? I mean, by the time they hit OKC, the AA was just being sounded in TN, so he didn't need to bother heading south before heading west, so why?
I think he's just not as cool as he thinks he is, and he changed his mind when he realized the phones were on. What if he plans to get to Tiauana via San Diego?
 
I'm a Tennessee lawyer, just sort of coincidentally. A DUI first offense is a misdemeanor.


What Tad has done here is arguably aggravated kidnapping because he is in possession of a deadly weapon. In Tennessee, aggravated kidnapping is a class B felony pursuant to TCA 39-13-304. He is probably also at this point (MOO) guilty of aggravated statutory rape, a class D felony pursuant to TCA 39-13-506(c), and statutory rape by an authority figure, a class C felony pursuant to TCA 39-13-532.


What he has done is also a federal crime because he has transported the minor child across state lines. I am less familiar with federal criminal law but I would imagine that he is subject to federal criminal liability for kidnapping across state lines and transporting a minor across state lines for sexual purposes. These are probably felonies.


I'm annoyed at the constant theme on this thread that what this slimeball has done is "not that illegal." Yes. It IS illegal and it is wrong! It doesn't matter if the child thinks she wants this. At all.

Also if you are going to post as a legal expert, maybe you should become a Verified Attorney for WS. :thumb:
 
Hmm. He'd have to know how long they kept their videos for though and somehow I would think he would strut more and take more care about his appearance. It's possible.

Good points!
 
That's was so sad reading that post. It appears some normalcy was finally starting to take place in her abusive dysfunctional home life. Sadly, it wasn't soon enough and that young girl was fed up. If I was in her shoes I might have done what she did. The opportunity was there so she grabbed it. [emoji19]

Her mother, the one convicted of abuse, had been removed from the home. We do not know what goes on in others' families, but clearly she has a father and siblings who love and miss her very much. Please don't validate the actions of TC, who used manipulation and authority to create this situation.

Like others I have some experience with manipulators. They are toxic. They twist reality to their own advantage, and they create dependency. Likely the logic you outlined is what he told ET. Since we already know one of ET's family members reads this forum, I hope we can stay sensitive to how she and her other siblings and their father might feel.
 




Bingo! You know I'm aware that there are sophisticated teens out there who have a higher level of cunning or maturity or whatever. They still all deal with frontal love development issues but yeah, some are more sophisticated than others.

I just don't think ET is that kid

How can you tell? Well looking at their patterns of behavior and communication is one way. To me, ET's were decidedly young. She wasnt the teen some have discussed who talks about religion, politics, philosophy, art or literature. She wasn't some practiced teen criminal out burglarizing houses or hurting other kids for fun. She seemed to me be a little girl with romantic fantasies and self esteem issues, as well as a desire for status and to rise above those who bullied her.

Another thing to look at is the history of the kid. Many homeschooled kids can lack the sophistication of kids who go to public school and who are exposed to a wider diversity of people, thought and experiences. (Note I said "many", not all. I'm not debating the merits of homeschooling).



ET had been homeschooled most of her life and reportedly had been having trouble fitting in.


Besides educational history is any history of past abuse or exploitation. That can make a child even more vulnerable to further exploitation and abuse as you have so clearly pointed out. Yes, for some it can force them to grow up and give them a "burnt by the sun" sort of knowingness. But in others it can do the opposite and create a child whose desire for normalcy and happiness makes them have a hard time seeing the dangers of a dangled carrot.


We know that ET was abused in the past.


Then there is there conduct in relation to whatever significant event has occurred. Like a crime that they are either a part of as victim of perp. Did their conduct indicate an understanding of actual consequences? Did they display a cunning in trying to cover up the crime or did they inadvertently or purposefully leave clues about what was going to happen or had happened?


I think ET showed no understanding of the reality of getting in a car with her predator.


Finally, and very important, is there an imbalance of power involved? In situations where a minor is involved in a crime either as a possible perp, a
victim or both, we look at who else is involved. Was there an older person involved who may have been manipulating the situation? Controlling the child? Influencing or orchestrating what was going on?


Like in the Jeffrey Easley case (the 12 year old he took after murdering her mother). The very presence of an adult or older child who has greater power, knowledge, cunning, resources, experience or sophistication in a situation involving a crime, may indicate a lower level of sophistication of the child involved. That's because predatory people pick victims or underlings they can coerce or manipulate.


All in all I see ET as a very unsophisticated kid even for her age who is in deep danger and has no idea what to do and how to get out of it.

Welp, I can't expand on these thoughts any better than you just did, gitana so I'll only thank you for such a great post and add this: when this is all over (not "if" but "when") and Elizabeth is back home safely, I want so desperately for her to be given access to the tools and resources that will help her establish self-esteem and agency, to be afforded the educational opportunities that she deserves, and ultimately, for her to have the ability to be whoever she wants to be in life on her own terms.
 
O



With deep respect, IMO none of that is clear at all. Elizabeth Smart walked around "willingly" with her captor. Went to parties and didn't say a word. Didn't try to run when he was jailed for two weeks. Even lied about her identity when cops moved her away from her captors and asked her who she was. Was she "in love" with that monster and with him of her own volition?

Same thing with Jaycee Dugard. She had times where she had the physical freedom to run. And did not. She also lied at first about who she was. Wasnshe with him willingly?

The list goes on.

The fact that an abused and exploited teen is seen walking without chains with her predator does not mean she is some stubborn teenage delinquent trying to live out a romance with this old predator.

And to assume so is to totally discount and disbelieve family reports that: a) she told a sibling to look for her if she wasn't home by 6:00 pm. b) she kept excitedly pestering a brother to make sure he showed up for her confirmation that upcoming weekend. c) she hid from the predator on several occasions some just days before her disappearance, when he would show up at her work.

I believe all of that is true.

For many it seems hard to reconcile posts on SM she made about and to this guy, as well as emails they shared, and her behavior in grabbing belongings and going off with him, with a scared victim. How can both scenarios be true?

To me it's clear. Immaturity. Vulnerability. Manipulation. Exploitation. Control. Coercion. Abuse.



But didn't they release the sighting as soon as they got it and confirmed it? They got it Thursday.



Which supports the theory that this kid really didn't understand the reality of what the predator was intending. Why not bring many more clothes?

Very well said.
 
I'm guessing he does not know that.

There are a whole lot of people who come to California expecting tropical rather than sub-tropical weather. Us locals always pack a sweater or sweatshirt for the cooler evenings. But it is a beautiful, warm day today, and I'm about to go out and enjoy the afternoon. May Elizabeth be found and returned to her family today.
 
Yes, anyone who kidnaps a minor and is in possession of weapon. I think the breakdown in understanding is the term "anyone". 18 is the age in which a child becomes an adult in this country. Until the age of 18, they are not a legal adult and therefore in custody of an adult who is responsible for their welfare. Most times, this is a parent, other times it's a family member or some other court appointed adult. If at 17 a child runs away from home, the police will find the child and return them to whoever has legal custody. In this case the "anyone" is a minor child whose father has been issued sole legal custody. Anyone who takes or harbors ET is guilty of custodial interference or kidnapping, whether the child is there of their own volition or not. If a minor child runs away to your home and you harbor them, you can be charged with custodial interference or even kidnapping. Unless a minor becomes emancipated, they are the custodial property of whatever adult has legal custody. In the same respect, the adult who has custody is responsible for their well being, which is why even at the age of 15 her mother can be charged with neglect if she fails in her duties as a caregiver. Minor child, under 18, these are the rules.

OK then, why was Maciej Ignaciuk not charged with kidnapping? He did the exact same thing. Do you have any example of someone who has ran away with a minor, under the same circumstances, and was convicted of anything more than unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor? Because I can't find any examples.
 
I believe her sister confirmed she is Catholic, as well as her dad early on. TC is not Catholic though - ET's family was and she attended both Catholic services as well as whatever church services TC was attending.

Would these two churches be considered at extreme opposites? TC's faith was Nazarene and ET's was Catholic. I believe it was in the 57 page documents on TC's records/resume where it stated his faith.
 
Why so much speculation about weddings? Is the theory out there that he did this so he could marry her?
 
Why so much speculation about weddings? Is the theory out there that he did this so he could marry her?

I can't find any state permitting marriage under age 18 without parental permission.
 
Would these two churches be considered at extreme opposites? TC's faith was Nazarene and ET's was Catholic. I believe it was in the 57 page documents on TC's records/resume where it stated his faith.

Im neither of these religions, but I would say, yes. They are opposite.
 
Why so much speculation about weddings? Is the theory out there that he did this so he could marry her?


Because TC did online research about marrying a teen, and ET calls herself 'wife' on Instagram.
 
For those that think Hawaii and its a big IF they can get to the big island....

Most of the island is rural with a lot of off grid living outside of the city folks live on acreage and there is a lot of places that look for farm workers than can live on the property as well as property sitters that live in Ohana's (small home off the main home). It's totally feasible that one could hide for quite some time IF they could make it here.
 
Why so much speculation about weddings? Is the theory out there that he did this so he could marry her?

:dunno: Everyone here has their own opinions.

Mine, :moo: he researched only to mislead her, not to actually do it.

For that reason I just scroll past things talking about marriage.

Fwiw.. I just learned what roll and scroll means..as to the "roll" part this week. I had thought it was the same thing... Rolling through posts.

I now know :moo: the roll means "rolling your eyes at an absurdity".

I have been here for a while and :blushing: never knew it was rolling eyes.
 
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