Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #10

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With deep respect, IMO none of that is clear at all. Elizabeth Smart walked around "willingly" with her captor. Went to parties and didn't say a word. Didn't try to run when he was jailed for two weeks. Even lied about her identity when cops moved her away from her captors and asked her who she was. Was she "in love" with that monster and with him of her own volition?

Same thing with Jaycee Dugard. She had times where she had the physical freedom to run. And did not. She also lied at first about who she was. Wasnshe with him willingly?

The list goes on.

The fact that an abused and exploited teen is seen walking without chains with her predator does not mean she is some stubborn teenage delinquent trying to live out a romance with this old predator.

And to assume so is to totally discount and disbelieve family reports that: a) she told a sibling to look for her if she wasn't home by 6:00 pm. b) she kept excitedly pestering a brother to make sure he showed up for her confirmation that upcoming weekend. c) she hid from the predator on several occasions some just days before her disappearance, when he would show up at her work.

I believe all of that is true.

For many it seems hard to reconcile posts on SM she made about and to this guy, as well as emails they shared, and her behavior in grabbing belongings and going off with him, with a scared victim. How can both scenarios be true?

To me it's clear. Immaturity. Vulnerability. Manipulation. Exploitation. Control. Coercion. Abuse.



But didn't they release the sighting as soon as they got it and confirmed it? They got it Thursday.



Which supports the theory that this kid really didn't understand the reality of what the predator was intending. Why not bring many more clothes?
Great post. Spot on. I will add, to me it seems her lovey dovey posts that went through a medium such as email or IG were safe, and she could exhibit her desire to love and show her vulnerability that she was desperate to be loved. Based on her skeptical behaviors listed above, I feel she wasn't as 100% invested 'in the flesh', meaning in a real time face to face situation. I think the January kiss was experimental from her side, and from the safety of her phone she could play it out. I don't believe she ever intended to actually go this far with things, I think he pressed and preyed on her confusion and internal debate.

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Thanks. I believe the question was how long would it take for Jill's divorce to be finalized.....at least, that is the question that I was addressing. She doesn't have to divorce his arse at all, if she doesn't want to, but clearly she DOES want to because she has filed. Since he is not locatable to respond, I'm wondering how long she has to wait for a judgment.?????? JMO
Here is what I said upthread copy-pasted:

On the issue of his wife filing for divorce, I'm actually primarily a divorce lawyer in Tennessee (obviously neither he nor his wife is my client). There is a mandatory waiting period after filing before you can get divorced. If you have minor children together, it's 90 days; if you don't, it's 60 days.


The hurdle for her is going to be service of process. She will have to get him served to divorce him. She could, I suppose, serve him by publication in the newspaper, but if she does, then the court won't have jurisdiction to assess alimony and divide marital property. Given that probably everything she owns is marital property due to the length of the marriage, she wouldn't be able to get clear title to a house or property without actual, rather than constructive, service. Personal service (where someone hands him the papers) is obviously preferable, but just like everybody else, she doesn't know where he is.


My suspicion is that she filed in order to have everything teed up to serve him as soon as he's arrested. After he's served, he'll have 30 days to file an answer before she's entitled to a default judgment, and after a default is granted, most courts will force her to wait another 30 days before having a final hearing (if the waiting period has expired at that point; it's a "whichever is longer" situation).


With respect to alimony, it's true she has a job, but what's not clear is whether he's earning to his capacity. Tennessee alimony law considers fault, although it's primarily based on the obligor's ability to pay and the obligee's financial need. I would suspect alimony will be awarded in this case, although perhaps not a huge monthly obligation because they were hardly wealthy.


MOO but she may feel like filing for divorce is the only thing within her power at this point to say that what Tad is done is NOT okay and she does NOT endorse his behavior. She is probably tired of hearing how he allegedly got special treatment because she works for the school and this is her way of saying she's just as mad as everybody else, if not more.


I heard some concern several pages back that her filing would make it easier for TC to marry ET. The kind of man who would steal a 15 year old child to "marry" her is also the kind of man who isn't going to care one single bit that bigamy is illegal. And until the divorce is finalized, they're still married anyway. But it's not like if TC and ET applied for a marriage license, there's some federal database that would flag him as already married. That just doesn't exist. Of course, they would probably creep whatever county clerk out due to the age difference and I doubt they'd take that risk even with fake IDs.
 
Thanks. I believe the question was how long would it take for Jill's divorce to be finalized.....at least, that is the question that I was addressing. She doesn't have to divorce his arse at all, if she doesn't want to, but clearly she DOES want to because she has filed. Since he is not locatable to respond, I'm wondering how long she has to wait for a judgment.?????? JMO

One of the attorneys from Tenn that visit this thread responded to this back at the beginning of the thread. Im thinking it was around page 15 or so. Things in Tenn are a bit different in that if she cannot serve him, she cannot split assets. I will go see if I can find the post.

Edited: I brought forward the lawyers post about Tenn. Divorces. It is a few posts down from this.
 
This is the first I've heard about the mattress. Can everybody see it above posyer talking about matress?

I think not for many of us.

Fwiw.. I used to put things in the WS quotes box also from mainstream media.

I no longer do that because e.g. your quote from the mainstream media, which you did in WS quote box vs just doing in paren quotes..does not show when I do a response.

Fwiw.. It helps me to put it in "quotes" versus put it in WS quote box quotes which so NOT show on response

:moo:

What about a mattress?

Never mind I found it
 
On the issue of his wife filing for divorce, I'm actually primarily a divorce lawyer in Tennessee (obviously neither he nor his wife is my client). There is a mandatory waiting period after filing before you can get divorced. If you have minor children together, it's 90 days; if you don't, it's 60 days.


The hurdle for her is going to be service of process. She will have to get him served to divorce him. She could, I suppose, serve him by publication in the newspaper, but if she does, then the court won't have jurisdiction to assess alimony and divide marital property. Given that probably everything she owns is marital property due to the length of the marriage, she wouldn't be able to get clear title to a house or property without actual, rather than constructive, service. Personal service (where someone hands him the papers) is obviously preferable, but just like everybody else, she doesn't know where he is.


My suspicion is that she filed in order to have everything teed up to serve him as soon as he's arrested. After he's served, he'll have 30 days to file an answer before she's entitled to a default judgment, and after a default is granted, most courts will force her to wait another 30 days before having a final hearing (if the waiting period has expired at that point; it's a "whichever is longer" situation).


With respect to alimony, it's true she has a job, but what's not clear is whether he's earning to his capacity. Tennessee alimony law considers fault, although it's primarily based on the obligor's ability to pay and the obligee's financial need. I would suspect alimony will be awarded in this case, although perhaps not a huge monthly obligation because they were hardly wealthy.


MOO but she may feel like filing for divorce is the only thing within her power at this point to say that what Tad is done is NOT okay and she does NOT endorse his behavior. She is probably tired of hearing how he allegedly got special treatment because she works for the school and this is her way of saying she's just as mad as everybody else, if not more.


I heard some concern several pages back that her filing would make it easier for TC to marry ET. The kind of man who would steal a 15 year old child to "marry" her is also the kind of man who isn't going to care one single bit that bigamy is illegal. And until the divorce is finalized, they're still married anyway. But it's not like if TC and ET applied for a marriage license, there's some federal database that would flag him as already married. That just doesn't exist. Of course, they would probably creep whatever county clerk out due to the age difference and I doubt they'd take that risk even with fake IDs.

Bringing this forward for those who are interested in the ins and outs of Tenn. Divorce law.
 
My gut feeling also! They could easily hide in Florida since spring break is in full force then head back to Tennessee and hide in the Mountains. IMHO

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And TC thinks he so hip and loved by all the teenagers he would fit right in. Lol
 
Lori......thanks! A long time ago I helped a friend who was abandoned by her husband in FL. They had a minor child and expensive property. As I recall, she had to notify by newspaper for a certain amount of time, but when there was no response, her judgment went through and she got sole custody and ownership of everything from the FL court. (The wayward husband turned up MONTHS after the judgment (he had been living in Belize) and was surprised to learn that he was divorced. LOL.....luckily, he went back to Belize with his tail between his legs. JMO
 
Totally! I literally live on the beach in SF, and while I've been here only a couple of years, I don't think I've ever worn my swimsuit there! And I go to the beach almost daily. Of course, Socal is different.

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Not as many bathers since they've been catching great white sharks off Huntington Beach piers.
 
Lori......thanks! A long time ago I helped a friend who was abandoned by her husband in FL. They had a minor child and expensive property. As I recall, she had to notify by newspaper for a certain amount of time, but when there was no response, her judgment went through and she got sole custody and ownership of everything from the FL court. (The wayward husband turned up MONTHS after the judgment (he had been living in Belize) and was surprised to learn that he was divorced. LOL.....luckily, he went back to Belize with his tail between his legs. JMO
If she just wants a divorce and isn't concerned about property, she can file and publish against him, which will be 4 weeks in a row. After the last publication, he is deemed served and has 30 days to file an answer. So his answer is due at about day 58. Then the lawyer would have to file a motion for default judgment and mail it to his last known address, at least 8 days in advance of a hearing. The default could thus be granted at around day 66. The court would then probably require a 30-day wait so that the default is final before holding a final divorce hearing. So we are talking 96 days, minimum, if she can't find him.
 
Maciej Ignaciuk aka Max Kozak was charged with kidnapping and a host of other felonies (11 to be exact) but plead no-contest to two charges of sex with a minor. This was part of a plea deal party driven by the family's desire to not force their daughter to testify in court and part due to wanting to find out his true identity. Some feel the DA made a bad deal, but that doesn't mean it was any less of kidnapping. There are plenty of cases in which people who do not have legal custody of minor being charged with kidnapping. If, as you say, any person is able to live anywhere they want, why was custody given to the father? It's called custody, and as long as someone is under the age of 18 they are under someone's custody unless they are emancipated. Interfering with custody is kidnapping. So examples:
Walter Sawyer: convicted of kidnapping sentenced with 25-50 years
James A Morey - convicted of kidnapping for helping a teen run away from home, sentenced 10 years (he didn't take her out of state)
Johnathan Price- 18 years old, convicted of kidnapping for running away with his 16 year old girlfriend. Sentenced 5 - 7yrs
That's a quick search. Now whether TC would be convicted of the charges of kidnapping, we can debate, we can even debate whether he'd have the charges dropped if he returns her to her family safe and sound, but yes under the law he's committed kidnapping and is likely to be charged. When he crosses state lines, federal charges can be levied. Furthermore, if he used his weapons to control her, the situation under TN statute becomes a felony. I understand what you're saying but things are much different legally before the age of 18.

The child abduction charge against Maciej Ignaciuk was dropped because the girl wouldn't testify. If the victim won't testify that she was kidnapped, then there is no kidnapping. Which is the exact same thing that will likely happen to TC. It going to be impossible to convict TC of kidnapping ET with the video of her shopping with him at Walmart. The DA might charge TC with kidnapping , just like they charged Maciej Ignaciuk, but that will be plea bargained down to a sex charge, just like Maciej Ignaciuk.
 
I don't think you will be able to convince anyone who won't even believe the Tennessee attorney we have on here who explained it all. For others who might not be sure, here's some more info:


Various cases of men convicted of something greater than a minor sexual conduct charge of some sort, with a minor who appeared to have gone with him "willingly":

Nevada - convicted of kidnapping and child *advertiser censored* - faces up to life. 16 year old girl told officers she was with the man willingly. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4370260/Ex-Vegas-teacher-guilty-kidnapping-teen-girl.html

North Carolina - 20 year old man sentenced to 11 years in prison for abduction and statutory rape of his 14 year old "girlfriend". http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/05/19/Young-man-found-guilty-in-lovers-runaway-case.html

Mississippi - man sentenced to 30 years for kidnapping and statutory rape after his victim ran away to his home. http://www.wdam.com/story/33003862/verdict-reached-in-jones-county-kidnapping-and-rape-trial

Texas - federal enticement of a minor )a federal kidnapping charge) and aiding and abetting after he engaged in a sexual "relationship" with a 13 year old, (their words, not mine) and then picked her up and another 13 year old to have sex with him. http://www.easttexasmatters.com/new...ens-taking-them-to-ft-worth-for-sex/596239707

Florida - statutory rape - sentenced to 5 - 15 years in prison. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...ve-sex-until-marriage/f950mkViWEYQJ3N0fi00pK/

Georgia - statutory rape - sentenced to 8 and 15 years (two different men) in prison. https://patch.com/georgia/atlanta/c...ced-statutory-rape-involving-13-year-old-girl

New York - statutory rape - sentenced to 184 years. Man had been grooming kid for years beginning at age 13. http://brooklynda.org/2015/09/10/brooklyn-man-sentenced-to-184-years-in-prison-for-statutory-rape/


So besides federal and state kidnapping charges, or harboring a runaway, etc., this man could be charged with statutory rape of ET under all of the following:

Statutory rape is a class E felony in TN - 1- 6 years in prison.
Aggravated statutory rape is a class D felony in TN - 2-12 years in prison.
Statutory rape by an authority figure is a class C felony in TN - 3-15 years in prison and not eligible for diversion or probation.
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/tennessee-law/tennessee-rape-and-sexual-assault-laws.html
http://www.socratek.com/StateLaws.aspx?id=608754&title=39-13-506 Statutory Rape
http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-13/part-5/39-13-532

If he does not release her, he is looking at serious time, IMO.

With your examples.. Would not all but one possibly have the same outcome even if he did release her?

He may have hit the Tipping Point
 
I don't think they have minor children, I'm assuming she's divorcing on the grounds of abandonment and that can take a while depending on how long it takes to get in front of judge to prove abandonment. I'm hoping that before TC left, he left her with some kind of written agreement which would explain why she reported him missing. It could take up to a year, or as little as 90 days.

Mary Elizabeth is a minor.
 
“He was certainly putting a lot of planning into disappearing,” Brent Cooper, the district attorney for Maury County, Tennessee, told ABC News earlier this week. “He searched what size mattress will fit in the back of a Nissan Rogue.” http://abcnews.go.com/US/surveillan...gedly-abducted-teacher-give/story?id=46512328

First time I'm reading this - unless I missed it.

Also, as to the different religious faiths of ET and TC, both profess to be Christians just different denominations. There are many more similarities between Roman Catholicism and Nazarene, than differences. Not that it really matters much anyway, since TC has violated so many commands of the Bible it's sort of pointless to even assume he's an actual Christian.

Just bringing this post forward
 
The child abduction charge against Maciej Ignaciuk was dropped because the girl wouldn't testify. If the victim won't testify that she was kidnapped, then there is no kidnapping. Which is the exact same thing that will likely happen to TC. It going to be impossible to convict TC of kidnapping ET with the video of her shopping with him at Walmart. The DA might charge TC with kidnapping , just like they charged Maciej Ignaciuk, but that will be plea bargained down to a sex charge, just like Maciej Ignaciuk.

They don't necessarily need testimony, but it helps. Conviction rates go down without victim testimony, it's not ET that files the charges, it's the state, she's only evidentiary at that point. Again, dependent on charges issued, but yes they'll most likely plea him down especially since he's got no prior history and if she's returned quickly and unharmed. But that window is closing every day he keeps her. If he's smart, he'll contact an attorney and negotiate her return. At his age, a 25 year sentence would be life, and that's the gamble if he continues on the course he's on.
 
Mary Elizabeth is a minor.

I was talking about the divorce between JC and TC, I don't believe the Cummins have any minor children. Mary Elizabeth is a Thomas, not a Cummins, she isn't their child.
 
Speaking of his faith (or lack thereof), check out his Instagram account (https://www.instagram.com/tadcummins/), in which TC has religious and romantic posts right up until the the abduction. His last post: "It's a beautiful day to start." He also describes himself as follows:
Jesus freak/child of The King, husband, father, grandfather, high-school teacher,RRT, drummer, audio tech, jeep owner, singer/songwriter, warrior-poet
 
If they want warm beaches but don't want to risk crossing the border I wonder if they're headed to the Gulf coast in Texas. Living in the van they could avoid staying in one place too long. I don't know how populated the coast is, but I know a lot of Texas is empty - they could easily hide out for stretches of time.

But the marriage law in Texas is 17 and they would still need an income.
 
With your examples.. Would not all but one possibly have the same outcome even if he did release her?

He may have hit the Tipping Point

TN law is done in such a way as to be less punitive if, and I stress IF, he returns her voluntarily. The law wants an unharmed child, more than they want a predator behind bars. It's a trade off. So no, if he releases her the law factors that in. My feeling has always been that some states, like TN, believe that predators can be rehabilitated which is why they feel if a victim is released, the predator shows remorse, that remorse translates to rehabilitation and a better outcome. Who knows, maybe they're right. But their laws are also set up to protect the kidnapped person and provide for a method of safe return. If he were today to call an attorney, he could easily negotiate this and be home by sunset, out on bail. If he were willing to enter counseling and offer restitution to the family he would most likely not spend a day behind bars. Especially if ET is unharmed, well fed, etc.
 
Thanks. I believe the question was how long would it take for Jill's divorce to be finalized.....at least, that is the question that I was addressing. She doesn't have to divorce his arse at all, if she doesn't want to, but clearly she DOES want to because she has filed. Since he is not locatable to respond, I'm wondering how long she has to wait for a judgment.?????? JMO
In Kansas, you can get an emergency divorce which is quickly granted. I wonder if this option is available to his wife. I was also wondering if she divorces him, if that would free her "half" of their property so he couldn't use it as collateral on bail, lawyers, etc.. It also might keep her from having it seized/sold if he is sued by family??? I'm thinking there might be financial benefits to divorcing him asap. ???
 
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