Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #13 *Arrest*

[pegs]

"The couple used to take Thomas, a student in Cummins’ forensics class, to church, Jill Cummins said.

“In fact, I called her our third daughter sometimes,” said Jill Cummins, who works in Maury County Schools’ administrative offices."

http://www.columbiadailyherald.com/...e-did-not-believe-kissing-accusation-at-first

This aspect of the case has always puzzled me. I read the Maury School Codes of Conduct and tried to find anything that addressed conduct outside of school and employee mandated reporting responsibility. I wanted to know if the graying boundaries between the Cummins home and the student, Elizabeth would be in direct violation of the teacher/student directives? Both Tad and Jill taking her to church, Jill calling her a 3rd daughter, Tad referring to her as a good friend etc. And if JC is also included as a mandated reporter (don't know this for sure) would she be under scrutiny for not being proactive in enforcing a distance between Tad Cummins, herself and Elizabeth when out of school? I feel like JC had her suspicions about Tad's fixation on Elizabeth and with some of her comments IMO, I believe she questioned him too. I'm just having some nagging uncertainty about some of JC comments.

So my questions are: Is JC as an administrative employee of Maury County School District a mandated reporter? And is there any policy for Maury County schools that specifically addresses the appropriate boundaries for teachers and students?

I was only able to find that Tad appears to have violated a number of the Codes of Conduct and it appears that Maury County Schools did not follow procedure as outlined in the Codes of Conduct.

 

[Kapua]

I was thinking that the people with the greatest opportunity to notice them would be the checkout clerks at whatever grocery store they are visiting, because like I've posted before, they are getting their food from somewhere and I don't think they are hunting or fishing.

I'll bet a lot of them are union workers. And a lot of grocery stores are corporations. Can we generate some interest through these channels?

My fear is that people will forget about Elizabeth and she'll become long-term missing like Jaycee Dugard.

My hope is that we can pool our collective intelligence and figure out a way to bring her home sooner rather than later.

:cow:

 

[MsMtOlympus]

This aspect of the case has always puzzled me. I read the Maury School Codes of Conduct and tried to find anything that addressed conduct outside of school and employee mandated reporting responsibility. I wanted to know if the graying boundaries between the Cummins home and the student, Elizabeth would be in direct violation of the teacher/student directives? Both Tad and Jill taking her to church, Jill calling her a 3rd daughter, Tad referring to her as a good friend etc. And if JC is also included as a mandated reporter (don't know this for sure) would she be under scrutiny for not being proactive in enforcing a distance between Tad Cummins, herself and Elizabeth when out of school? I feel like JC had her suspicions about Tad's fixation on Elizabeth and with some of her comments IMO, I believe she questioned him too. I'm just having some nagging uncertainty about some of JC comments.

So my questions are: Is JC as an administrative employee of Maury County School District a mandated reporter? And is there any policy for Maury County schools that specifically addresses the appropriate boundaries for teachers and students?

I was only able to find that Tad appears to have violated a number of the Codes of Conduct and it appears that Maury County Schools did not follow procedure as outlined in the Codes of Conduct.

I'm reading through this now, it was valid up until 2015 but I suspect a current version isn't too different policy-wise.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/manda.pdf

Page 51:

Tennessee
Professionals Required to Report
Ann. Code §§ 37-1-403; 37-1-605
Persons required to report include:
• Physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, chiropractors, nurses, hospital personnel, or other health or mental health
professionals
• Teachers, other school officials or personnel, daycare center workers
• Other professional child care, foster care, residential, or institutional workers
• Social workers
• Practitioners who rely solely on spiritual means for healing
• Judges or law enforcement officers
• Neighbors, relatives, or friends
• Authority figures at community facilities, including any facility used for recreation or social assemblies or for educational,
religious, social, health, or welfare purposes, including, but not limited to, facilities operated by schools, the Boy or Girl
Scouts, the YMCA or YWCA, the Boys and Girls Club, or church or religious organizations
• Other persons

BBM

Technically, I'd think an Admin would fall under "other school officials or personnel" but then again, these are vague descriptors so it's hard to say IMO.

 

[gitana1]

That's the thing - I'm in New England, and there's barely been mention of it here. I suspect much of the country is the same way.

For someone/something to get extensive national news coverage today, it pretty much has to be either terrorism/mass casualty/murder live streamed on line. A kidnapping -might- get coverage if the victim was an 8yr old dragged kicking and screaming into a van. Simply put, a teen of nearly legal age going "willingly" with someone that she knows isn't going to get the attention. Not saying it's right, but that's just how it is.

Trying to find TC is like trying to find a needle in a haystack - with the added complications of not knowing what a needle looks like, and not knowing where the haystack is.

So well put.

This aspect of the case has always puzzled me. I read the Maury School Codes of Conduct and tried to find anything that addressed conduct outside of school and employee mandated reporting responsibility. I wanted to know if the graying boundaries between the Cummins home and the student, Elizabeth would be in direct violation of the teacher/student directives? Both Tad and Jill taking her to church, Jill calling her a 3rd daughter, Tad referring to her as a good friend etc. And if JC is also included as a mandated reporter (don't know this for sure) would she be under scrutiny for not being proactive in enforcing a distance between Tad Cummins, herself and Elizabeth when out of school? I feel like JC had her suspicions about Tad's fixation on Elizabeth and with some of her comments IMO, I believe she questioned him too. I'm just having some nagging uncertainty about some of JC comments.

So my questions are: Is JC as an administrative employee of Maury County School District a mandated reporter? And is there any policy for Maury County schools that specifically addresses the appropriate boundaries for teachers and students?

I was only able to find that Tad appears to have violated a number of the Codes of Conduct and it appears that Maury County Schools did not follow procedure as outlined in the Codes of Conduct.

Mandated reporters are mandated to report actual abuse. Taking a student to church is not abuse. Nor is calling her your friend or third daughter.

 

[pegs]

I'm reading through this now, it was valid up until 2015 but I suspect a current version isn't too different policy-wise.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/manda.pdf

Page 51:

Tennessee
Professionals Required to Report
Ann. Code §§ 37-1-403; 37-1-605
Persons required to report include:
• Physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, chiropractors, nurses, hospital personnel, or other health or mental health
professionals
• Teachers, other school officials or personnel, daycare center workers
• Other professional child care, foster care, residential, or institutional workers
• Social workers
• Practitioners who rely solely on spiritual means for healing
• Judges or law enforcement officers
• Neighbors, relatives, or friends
• Authority figures at community facilities, including any facility used for recreation or social assemblies or for educational,
religious, social, health, or welfare purposes, including, but not limited to, facilities operated by schools, the Boy or Girl
Scouts, the YMCA or YWCA, the Boys and Girls Club, or church or religious organizations
• Other persons

BBM

Technically, I'd think an Admin would fall under "other school officials or personnel" but then again, these are vague descriptors so it's hard to say IMO.

Thank you! Interesting!

So now the question is, what are the specific teacher/student boundaries that teachers were expected to adhere to. I suspect any policy would seriously frown on the level of off campus involvement that TC and JC had with Elizabeth, and if that turns out to be the case, I wonder where this puts Maury school employees (other teachers, admin) in terms of not reporting suspected abuse?

 

[kchoney]

I've only been lurking here, but I've been following this story like crazy.

I know the situations were different, but some guy shoots a person on FB Live and there is a nationwide manhunt and he's found in 3 days. HOW/WHY has nobody spotted Tad & Beth?!?! Makes me so angry.

 

[pegs]

So well put.



Mandated reporters are mandated to report actual abuse. Taking a student to church is not abuse. Nor is calling her your friend or third daughter.

So mandated reporter wouldn't encompass having to report a suspected inappropriate relationship between a teacher and a student? That is disappointing. I wonder if there is any policy in place that covers this sort of thing?

 

[jnblsm]

I don't think he's killed her, and I'm not so sure that she's unhappy (especially if they're staying somewhere "civilized" as opposed to camping.)

IMO, he didn't do all this just to knock her off. If he had stayed instead if running off with her, chances are that the worst that would have happened to him was getting fired - I seriously doubt if he would have been arrested for a few inappropriate emails and a kiss that they had no real proof of.

As to ET - if he's treating her decently and telling her how much he loves and cares about her - given her background, that may be enough to keep her happy. Rightly or wrongly, she may blame her father and even older siblings for not protecting her from her mother, and if she sees TC as protecting her....

Up thread it was suggested that a 50yo man with bp issues would have it harder than younger migrant workers to find a job in the fields getting paid in cash. It was worded better, but:
What if ET is the one working? If he's groomed her so well to run away, couldn't he convince her to work to make their lives easier?
Just throwing stuff out.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Kapua]

I've only been lurking here, but I've been following this story like crazy.

I know the situations were different, but some guy shoots a person on FB Live and there is a nationwide manhunt and he's found in 3 days. HOW/WHY has nobody spotted Tad & Beth?!?! Makes me so angry.

I think there are several reasons; but the main reason is that we don't know where to look.

Remember those escaped convicts in NY? There was a huge manhunt, lots of police officers AND dogs out looking for them day and night and they were not discovered for 3 weeks. Again, a somewhat different situation, but my point is that even with a large police presence and a clue of where to look it can take a while.

 

[gitana1]

So mandated reporter wouldn't encompass having to report a suspected inappropriate relationship between a teacher and a student? That is disappointing. I wonder if there is any policy in place that covers this sort of thing?

Since she was participating in taking the child to church and having her in her home as a "third daughter" I doubt she suspected there was something "inappropriate" going on. Bringing a student to church, calling her a third daughter, or "good friend" is not abuse. And while I think it's boundary crossing, especially the "good friend" part, it is not evidence.

I was a bad kid in high school. Went to a continuation school. We had various speakers come talk to us including Scientologists!! One old guy was a long time AA member. He talked to us about sobriety and took whoever wanted to go to Angel's games.

There was nothing illegal about it and I'm unaware of any rumors of anything odd happening with him. Just a nice old guy trying to show troubled kids you can be on the straight and narrow.


If I taught I would have a definite separation between my personal life and the kids though. Dangerous to bring a student to your home or in your car, IMO.


But even if there was school policy against it, that has nothing to do with mandated reporting.

Mandated reporters have to report actual or suspected abuse. But just having a feeling is not enough to force them to report. There has to be evidence of some kind of abuse taking place for a school official to be mandated to report what they suspect. Like a student said something made them uncomfortable. Or the official saw hand holding or something off.


Also, there is no evidence that the wife knew about the "good friend" comment. Which should prompt some questions I think.

 

[gypsysoul]

I'm not sure how to link to Twitter, but @TBIJoshDevine tweeted out a bit ago that they have no reason to believe they (TC and ET) have changed vehicles.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

PROBABILITIES NOT IN FAVOR OF A GOOD RELATIONSHIP
I think ET will eventually want to go home even though we know she has been abused and wants love. She was close to her sister, and had a best friend. She will miss them. TC isnt rich to help distract her with things to do, or even to probably meet her basic needs. She has already had conflicted feelings it appears. A flag already of misgivings on her part.
Now what about him? A couple commenters here said that they know of male spouses who fooled their wives into believing in their fidelity. Then the wives got blind-sided. So he was living a lie for who knows how long? And for a 50 year old man to take off with a 15 year old?! PROBABLY a sign that he is not mentally right. He is bigger and stronger, has a gun, maybe a car. She is going to probably be at his mercy. I say 'probably' because we don't know exactly how they are doing as a couple. We can only go with PROBABILITIES...high probabilities that she is in trouble. Which reminds me that abusers try to isolate you from your family and friends. This is another bad sign. No one knows her condition. That is not good. He's obsessed with her. Not good. That's not love thinking of himself first. And, yes, it probably has to do with sexual gratification. And even then that's not necessarily safe. A large guy a little girl....I'm being blunt. He has to be careful with her. Just another frustrated vent on my part.


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[Tealgrove]

I haven't been following this thread as carefully lately so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm surprised that no one has stepped forward to say that he made inappropriate advances to others prior to this event. I was sure that things had been going on previously.

Could this really be a one off thing? I was convinced otherwise. JMO

 

[gitana1]

PROBABILITIES NOT IN FAVOR OF A GOOD RELATIONSHIP
I think ET will eventually want to go home even though we know she has been abused and wants love. She was close to her sister, and had a best friend. She will miss them. TC isnt rich to help distract her with things to do, or even to probably meet her basic needs. She has already had conflicted feelings it appears. A flag already of misgivings on her part.
Now what about him? A couple commenters here said that they know of male spouses who fooled their wives into believing in their fidelity. Then the wives got blind-sided. So he was living a lie for who knows how long? And for a 50 year old man to take off with a 15 year old?! PROBABLY a sign that he is not mentally right. He is bigger and stronger, has a gun, maybe a car. She is going to probably be at his mercy. I say 'probably' because we don't know exactly how they are doing as a couple. We can only go with PROBABILITIES...high probabilities that she is in trouble. Which reminds me that abusers try to isolate you from your family and friends. This is another bad sign. No one knows her condition. That is not good. He's obsessed with her. Not good. That's not love thinking of himself first. And, yes, it probably has to do with sexual gratification. And even then that's not necessarily safe. A large guy a little girl....I'm being blunt. He has to be careful with her. Just another frustrated vent on my part.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh it makes me really uncomfortable having a predator and his victim referred to as "a couple"! I think couples implies consent.
I know it's :deadhorse: but this isn't a romantic liaison where we gauge the possible end of this on how "they're doing" together.

I know you don't mean anything by that. Clearly you're on her side 100%! But I think it's easy to slip into language that de-victimizes her slightly. Because even those of us who feel she's not to blame for the crime being perpetrated against her can subconsciously view her less of a victim because she wasn't dragged kicking and screaming into the car.

I harp on this, though, because I think societal attitudes about crimes like this can make people think she is less at risk and thus there's less urgency and publicity and ultimately reporting.

But IMO this kid is just as much at risk of violent rape or death as someone dragged kicking and screaming into a car. Different MO and different type of perp but the outcome can end up quite similar.

 

[MsMtOlympus]

Since she was participating in taking the child to church and having her in her home as a "third daughter" I doubt she suspected there was something "inappropriate" going on. Bringing a student to church, calling her a third daughter, or "good friend" is not abuse. And while I think it's boundary crossing, especially the "good friend" part, it is not evidence.

I was a bad kid in high school. Went to a continuation school. We had various speakers come talk to us including Scientologists!! One old guy was a long time AA member. He talked to us about sobriety and took whoever wanted to go to Angel's games.

There was nothing illegal about it and I'm unaware of any rumors of anything odd happening with him. Just a nice old guy trying to show troubled kids you can be on the straight and narrow.


If I taught I would have a definite separation between my personal life and the kids though. Dangerous to bring a student to your home or in your car, IMO.


But even if there was school policy against it, that has nothing to do with mandated reporting.

Mandated reporters have to report actual or suspected abuse. But just having a feeling is not enough to force them to report. There has to be evidence of some kind of abuse taking place for a school official to be mandated to report what they suspect. Like a student said something made them uncomfortable. Or the official saw hand holding or something off.


Also, there is no evidence that the wife knew about the "good friend" comment. Which should prompt some questions I think.

I hate how reasoned and intelligent all your responses are. Makes it harder for me to argue. Ok, pegs asked: "So my questions are: Is JC as an administrative employee of Maury County School District a mandated reporter? And is there any policy for Maury County schools that specifically addresses the appropriate boundaries for teachers and students?" I interpret this valid question as (and pegs, please correct me if I'm wrong!) another way of implying that an employee of the school district, even if not working at the school directly, needs to be on higher alert/held to a higher ethical standard than a general member of the public in regards to any violations of policy or inappropriate behavior when it comes to students. For example, transporting teenage female students (who go to a public school) to church and being responsible for them while at church strikes me at minimum as bad judgement for many reasons. A mandatory reporter should have the heightened awareness to see this situation as such even if abuse isn't necessarily the obvious result. (Would like to know if any teenage boys were in desperate need of rides to church as well. My guess is no.). If the mandatory reporter's judgement could possibly be skewed by say, being married to another mandatory reporter in the same system, then that blind spot needs to be addressed by higher-ups and those sort of arrangements more closely monitored if not prohibited altogether going forward.

 

[gitana1]

I haven't been following this thread as carefully lately so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm surprised that no one has stepped forward to say that he made inappropriate advances to others prior to this event. I was sure that things had been going on previously.

Could this really be a one off thing? I was convinced otherwise. JMO

IIRC, a couple did. We know of one girl at least who appeared to have been groomed but nothing worse happened.

IMO this isn't a one off. He's at least tried before.

 

[Kapua]

I haven't been following this thread as carefully lately so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm surprised that no one has stepped forward to say that he made inappropriate advances to others prior to this event. I was sure that things had been going on previously.

Could this really be a one off thing? I was convinced otherwise. JMO

IIRC, Elizabeth's sister Kat (MCElizabethsSISTER) posted that there were 3 others. That post is either on this thread or #12.

 

[Considering]

Oh it makes me really uncomfortable having a predator and his victim referred to as "a couple"! I think couples implies consent.
I know it's :deadhorse: but this isn't a romantic liaison where we gauge the possible end of this on how "they're doing" together.

I know you don't mean anything by that. Clearly you're on her side 100%! But I think it's easy to slip into language that de-victimizes her slightly. Because even those of us who feel she's not to blame for the crime being perpetrated against her can subconsciously view her less of a victim because she wasn't dragged kicking and screaming into the car.

I harp on this, though, because I think societal attitudes about crimes like this can make people think she is less at risk and thus there's less urgency and publicity and ultimately reporting.

But IMO this kid is just as much at risk of violent rape or death as someone dragged kicking and screaming into a car. Different MO and different type of perp but the outcome can end up quite similar.

:yeahthat:

 

[debirlfan]

Up thread it was suggested that a 50yo man with bp issues would have it harder than younger migrant workers to find a job in the fields getting paid in cash. It was worded better, but:
What if ET is the one working? If he's groomed her so well to run away, couldn't he convince her to work to make their lives easier?
Just throwing stuff out.

The point I was trying to make is that it's not just illegals and day laborers that get paid in cash. Watch a few episodes of Judge Judy - seems like half the people collecting disability are also working under the table. If TC has skills like auto repair (did someone say he worked for a dealer at one point?), electrical or pluming, he could easily be doing small jobs that wouldn't be that physical.

 

[gitana1]

I hate how reasoned and intelligent all your responses are. Makes it harder for me to argue.

Ok, pegs asked: "So my questions are: Is JC as an administrative employee of Maury County School District a mandated reporter? And is there any policy for Maury County schools that specifically addresses the appropriate boundaries for teachers and students?" I interpret this valid question as (and pegs, please correct me if I'm wrong!) another way of implying that an employee of the school district, even if not working at the school directly, needs to be on higher alert/held to a higher ethical standard than a general member of the public in regards to any violations of policy or inappropriate behavior when it comes to students. For example, transporting teenage female students (who go to a public school) to church and being responsible for them while at church strikes me at minimum as bad judgement for many reasons. A mandatory reporter should have the heightened awareness to see this situation as such even if abuse isn't necessarily the obvious result. (Would like to know if any teenage boys were in desperate need of rides to church as well. My guess is no.). If the mandatory reporter's judgement could possibly be skewed by say, being married to another mandatory reporter in the same system, then that blind spot needs to be addressed by higher-ups and those sort of arrangements more closely monitored if not prohibited altogether going forward.

Ahh. Yeah. I see what you're saying. I mean there definitely should be policy against transporting students, or having them in your home, etc. Do we know what the school policy is?

And I definitely agree that any school employee should be in heightened alert regarding anything untoward. Pegs has a great point with that.

You know what I think? When it comes to church or religion, people in certain regions place that as totally off limits when it comes to scrutiny or criticism. It's just expected that anything involving church is for an elevated purpose and anyone who is religious is a good person above reproach.


That's probably why predators or sociopaths have hidden behind religiosity on so many occasions and used it as a front for extramarital affairs, sexual assault, child abuse of all kinds and even murder.


Think of all be cases from BTK to John List and the Duggars, the Willis family, multiple preachers and church going men who killed their wives, molested their kids, etc. There are so many.


It's easy to get away with stuff if you use piety as a guise.


I think the school probably looked the other way as well because the predator was religious so nothing he did could be bad.


It's frustrating. There should be policies in place in all schools and all churches that protect people. And less of an assumption that those who profess to be religious are incapable of wrongdoing.