TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[iamshadow21]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd very much like to know what in the world possibly convinced this woman to take the time to plan the slaughter of innocent people, including the most defenseless among us, little children.

In every violent crime the most common question asked is WHY? In this case, LE has told us Audrey Hale has all the answers to the question of her intentions, motives and aims, in her so-called manifesto, and I want to see it.

What I don't understand, is why people DON'T want to know. Or don't want the answers made public.

jmo

Just speaking for myself, I don't want his manifesto everywhere. It's exactly what he wanted, why he killed a bunch of innocent people. Why give him what he wanted? A platform to the world for his twisted views?

These writings being studied by people who are academics and scientists looking to prevent these kinds of crime is a different matter. That, I think should happen. But, in my opinion, it shouldn't be fodder for the tabloids and the evening news.

MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Just speaking for myself, I don't want his manifesto everywhere. It's exactly what he wanted, why he killed a bunch of innocent people. Why give him what he wanted? A platform to the world for his twisted views?

These writings being studied by people who are academics and scientists looking to prevent these kinds of crime is a different matter. That, I think should happen. But, in my opinion, it shouldn't be fodder for the tabloids and the evening news.

MOO

Well, clearly we disagree. I don't want or need academics and scientists telling me how to think or what to think.
And yes, Audrey Hale apparently wanted a platform to the world to tell of her twisted views.
So let's have it. And let's deal with it, as a law abiding, common sense society.

jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

Well, clearly we disagree. I don't want or need academics and scientists telling me how to think or what to think.
And yes, Audrey Hale apparently wanted a platform to the world to tell of her twisted views.
So let's have it. And let's deal with it, as a law abiding, common sense society.

jmo

And I respect your viewpoint, you just asked why people didn't want to know, said that you didn't understand it. And that's my personal answer. Everyone else's opinions and answers will probably be different, and that's fine.

MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

And I respect your viewpoint, you just asked why people didn't want to know, that you didn't understand it. And that's my personal answer. Everyone else's opinions and answers will probably be different, and that's fine.

MOO

I do appreciate you explaining why you take the other position.
It does help to know why some don't want it released. So, thank you for that.

 

[iamshadow21]

I do appreciate you explaining why you take the other position.
It does help to know why some don't want it released. So, thank you for that.

No problem.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Brenda Spencer and Laurie Dann both had mental illness.

Dann had a lot of access to quality health care, including many mental health experts. She was eventually diagnosed with OCD, but I wonder if her problem was Asperger's Syndrome? She had a mean, hostile personality. She bought her own gun, but local police tried to talk her parents into making her give it up. They were unsuccessful.

Spencer had a brain injury from childhood, mental illness and a horrible home environment. She lived in poverty with her alcoholic father. Hers was another tragic case of a mentally ill parent insisting on buying a gun for his mentally ill child.

Even today, JMO, there's not a whole lot that can be done to fully resolve these kinds of mental illness, but making it impossible for them to get a gun would prevent deaths.

??????????

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I don't understand why there is so much interest in this manifesto. I do not remember so much clamoring for other manifestos to be released

Is it because of the question of whether this qualifies as a hate crime? I don't know.

GOP reps ask for Nashville shooting to be classified a hate crime

A pair of Republican representatives have sent a letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland, requesting that the suspect in the Nashville school shooting be charged with hate crimes. Three students…

thehill.com

 

[Angiebla]

If it hasnt (the manifesto) been released yet, I doubt it will be.

Im curious as to what it says, but Im sure its full of crazy ramblings from a mentally unwell person.

 

[PrairieWind]

Just speaking for myself, I don't want his manifesto everywhere. It's exactly what he wanted, why he killed a bunch of innocent people. Why give him what he wanted? A platform to the world for his twisted views?

These writings being studied by people who are academics and scientists looking to prevent these kinds of crime is a different matter. That, I think should happen. But, in my opinion, it shouldn't be fodder for the tabloids and the evening news.

MOO

I don't know how you would legally make the manifesto available to some, but not others. And would any report of an academic likewise be sealed?
Law enforcement for now can claim it is still an open investigation. But there are limits to how long that will still be believable. Then it has to be released. Individual names mentioned could be redacted. But what is so dangerous about this manifesto that it can't be released?

 

[elevatorific]

All but the most minimal of redactions will do the same, imo. This has been billed as a manifesto. By their nature, they are heavy on ideology. That's the whole point of a manifesto. I agree that the longer they wait to release it in full with only the most minimal of redactions, the optics get much worse, as decisions certainly appear to be a political move. IMOO

bbm - Was this billed as a manifesto? Other than the word being used casually by the media. I've only seen it referred to as "shooter's writings" by official sources. Where is there confirmation about ideology?

 

[elevatorific]

dbm

 

[GRT]

Just speaking for myself, I don't want his manifesto everywhere. It's exactly what he wanted, why he killed a bunch of innocent people. Why give him what he wanted? A platform to the world for his twisted views?

These writings being studied by people who are academics and scientists looking to prevent these kinds of crime is a different matter. That, I think should happen. But, in my opinion, it shouldn't be fodder for the tabloids and the evening news.

MOO

I'm in the same camp.

Although I am curious as to why he chose the path he ultimately chose, I'm not ready to give him any notoriety that could lure other mentally unstable persons into committing a similar deed.

People who are on the edge like he was--people who feel as though they have nothing to lose--seem attracted by the attention paid to these mass shooters.

JMOO, of course, but rather than the media publicly dissecting the killers' lives, I think they should only report the incident in an off-hand fashion without sensationalizing the event. I remember a fan club of sorts developing around the young Boston bomber. His face appeared on the cover of several magazines, and impressionable females swooned at his bad-boy good looks.

The risk of copycat crimes is way too high. Every time one of these tragedies happens, some unbalanced soul starts to identify with the killer. It's a risk I'm unwilling to take to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Just speaking for myself, I don't want his manifesto everywhere. It's exactly what he wanted, why he killed a bunch of innocent people. Why give him what he wanted? A platform to the world for his twisted views?

These writings being studied by people who are academics and scientists looking to prevent these kinds of crime is a different matter. That, I think should happen. But, in my opinion, it shouldn't be fodder for the tabloids and the evening news.

MOO

In the days after the shooting, MSM pushed a particular narrative, without evidence. As time has gone on, that narrative has seemingly been flipped on its head. This pushing a narrative is a pervasive in reporting and in circles and sites where opinions and/or accusations are levied. One group of opinion holders is allowed to levy accusations about the reasons why things happen: why missing persons aren't found quickly enough, why a case gets or doesn't get press, why someone is or isn't arrested or prosecuted, why LE is or is not responding in a particular way. Their opinions are underpinned by race and politics, but they're the only ones allowed to speak. The second someone challenges them or merely offers a differing opinion, they're silenced. This approach is everywhere. It's a disservice to free speech and the free exchange of ideas. In this case, we have the opportunity, should they release the manifesto, to read for ourselves the truth behind the motivations to this shooting. I, for one, am all for that, no matter what the shooter's motivations. AJMOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

The risk of copycat crimes is way too high. Every time one of these tragedies happens, some unbalanced soul starts to identify with the killer. It's a risk I'm unwilling to take to satisfy my curiosity.

Not direct at you personally, but just jumping off your post to say I don't buy that claim at all.
Lots of criminals tend to idolize and admire other criminals without ever reading any sort of manifesto from them.
They saw what the person did because the media covered it, and they were sickeningly impressed because they are already themselves in that mindset that this is something they're going to do. No manifesto needed (for them) because that cat is already out of the bag - it's already been covered extensively by the media.

Releasing this manifesto isn't a matter of satisfying anyone's curiosity (or at least it shouldn't be), it's a matter of understanding what was going in this person's head that led them to this. Who or what influenced them, encouraged them, motivated them. And if at all possible, addressing THAT issue, or those issues head on, collectively as a society. We can all see something is broken, but we can't address it if we don't know what it is.

jmo

 

[GRT]

I don't know how you would legally make the manifesto available to some, but not others. And would any report of an academic likewise be sealed?
Law enforcement for now can claim it is still an open investigation. But there are limits to how long that will still be believable. Then it has to be released. Individual names mentioned could be redacted. But what is so dangerous about this manifesto that it can't be released?

It seems to me, IANL, that the documents surrounding a case like this could be temporarily sealed to give the event time to fade from the public's attention. Kind of like they were (some, still are) sealed in the JFK assassination case. In that case, didn't they say the docs were sealed to protect the privacy and security of informants?

When a mass shooting perp is dead, and there is a risk of copycat shootings, maybe a "cooling off" period of, say, 3-5 years would work?

I'm just thinking out loud, and all MOO, but I think the sensationalism around these shootings attracts copycat killers. MOO, but they seem to like to "go out" making a big splash, so to speak. Maybe a cooling-off period would help keep the media from sensationalizing the killings. I dunno. Just a thought.

 

[elevatorific]

Are there any instances of "manifestos" (or writings from shooters) being released by officials in the immediate aftermath of a shooting? Excluding those that were self-published by a shooter (i.e. many), or mailed by a shooter to the media (i.e. Elliot Rodger, Seung-Hui Cho).

Closest analogue I can think of would be Adam Lanza, and his writings weren't released for 6 years. Columbine also took years, and some of their materials were destroyed by then.

I'm just not sure there's anything unusual about some amount of time passing before releasing.

imo

 

[GRT]

Not direct at you personally, but just jumping off your post to say I don't buy that claim at all.
Lots of criminals tend to idolize and admire other criminals without ever reading any sort of manifesto from them.
They saw what the person did because the media covered it, and they were sickeningly impressed because they are already themselves in that mindset that this is something they're going to do. No manifesto needed (for them) because that cat is already out of the bag - it's already been covered extensively by the media.

Releasing this manifesto isn't a matter of satisfying anyone's curiosity (or at least it shouldn't be), it's a matter of understanding what was going in this person's head that led them to this. Who or what influenced them, encouraged them, motivated them. And if at all possible, addressing THAT issue, or those issues head on, collectively as a society. We can all see something is broken, but we can't address it if we don't know what it is.

jmo

Oh for sure, you're right, a potential criminal doesn't need a manifesto from another criminal in order to do bad deeds.

It's just that the media coverage of these shootings is so sensational, that it tends to attract like-minded folks who think they, too, might get revenge in a similar manner.

My only concern is making it look as though the perp has any sort of valid gripe against society. I just hate seeing the shooters (even if they're dead) get that much attention. Because I think lot of them are seeking that attention.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Oh for sure, you're right, a potential criminal doesn't need a manifesto from another criminal in order to do bad deeds.

It's just that the media coverage of these shootings is so sensational, that it tends to attract like-minded folks who think they, too, might get revenge in a similar manner.

My only concern is making it look as though the perp has any sort of valid gripe against society. I just hate seeing the shooters (even if they're dead) get that much attention. Because I think lot of them are seeking that attention.

I completely understand what you mean about these shooters getting any kind of attention or infamy or whatever the heck they were hoping to achieve. I even supported the idea of not naming them in the media, once upon a time. But I just don't think that's the answer or the best way to handle it. Concealing a thing, or hiding it or covering it up doesn't fix anything, and it's definitely not going to stop another mentally damaged person from doing what they already planned to do. I think openly addressing it, and looking at the ugly truth upfront, is the better way.

jmo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It seems to me, IANL, that the documents surrounding a case like this could be temporarily sealed to give the event time to fade from the public's attention. Kind of like they were (some, still are) sealed in the JFK assassination case. In that case, didn't they say the docs were sealed to protect the privacy and security of informants?

When a mass shooting perp is dead, and there is a risk of copycat shootings, maybe a "cooling off" period of, say, 3-5 years would work?

I'm just thinking out loud, and all MOO, but I think the sensationalism around these shootings attracts copycat killers. MOO, but they seem to like to "go out" making a big splash, so to speak. Maybe a cooling-off period would help keep the media from sensationalizing the killings. I dunno. Just a thought.

How many mass shootings have already happened after this? It's already forgotten, or would be, if they'd release the manifesto. The legal wrangling is literally the only thing keeping it in there public eye. AJMOO

 

[PrairieWind]

It seems to me, IANL, that the documents surrounding a case like this could be temporarily sealed to give the event time to fade from the public's attention. Kind of like they were (some, still are) sealed in the JFK assassination case. In that case, didn't they say the docs were sealed to protect the privacy and security of informants?

When a mass shooting perp is dead, and there is a risk of copycat shootings, maybe a "cooling off" period of, say, 3-5 years would work?

I'm just thinking out loud, and all MOO, but I think the sensationalism around these shootings attracts copycat killers. MOO, but they seem to like to "go out" making a big splash, so to speak. Maybe a cooling-off period would help keep the media from sensationalizing the killings. I dunno. Just a thought.

I understand your concerns and proposals. The information is in the hands of government entities and thus is subject to public disclosure and freedom of information requests. It is up to the government to find a legal reason to NOT turn it over, it is the government's burden. LE can do that by saying there is an active investigation. But is there still and active investigation?