TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[housewife]

If not using the killer's name or redacting manifestos was working, the numbers wouldn't look like this.

RSBM

Respectfully, we haven't seen a decrease because our country's media has not changed yet.
The "No Notoriety Protocol" includes a list of ways our media can mitigate contagion, but I haven't seen these suggestions enacted.

The "Contagion Effect"
Sherry Towers, a physicist at Arizona State University has studied the contagion effect of mass shootings. Read more of her interview here : https://asunews.asu.edu/20151005-contagion-effect-mass-shootings
Q: What is the news media’s role in this? Do they push up the numbers?
A: It appears that yes, national media coverage does end up increasing the frequency of these tragedies. However, the U.S. Constitution ensures freedom of the press ... we cannot legislate restrictions on the press to avoid this. It has to be a voluntary move. In fact, most press agencies will not report on suicides for exactly this reason ... suicides have been shown to be contagious. The sheriff in Oregon made the decision not to mention the killer's name. Perhaps his choice will be the beginning of a larger national conversation on how we can choose (or choose not) to cover these events.

I just googled "mass shooting contagion", but you will have to read all of the research yourself. I found this study from 2015:
Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings

 

[Betty P]

Does not naming a mass killer in the media actually discourage the next murderous psycho from doing the same thing or worse? How can anyone possibly know that? Is there a database somewhere of potential mass killers who changed their mind because NBC or CNN refused to name the last one and didn't give him or her as much press? I know that sounds flippant and I don't mean it to but how else would anyone even know if it's working, unless the mass killers (that changed their minds) told them it worked?

I believe if a man or woman has decided they're going to commit a terrible crime, they're going to do it no matter who's manifesto was redacted or which mass killer didn't get named on mainstream media. I think these measures are more realistically in place to make the public feel better. I don't think they'll stop anyone from doing anything they want to do.

Mostly I don't believe it's working based on some of the stats I'm seeing about mass shootings. According to the Gun Violence Archive Past Summary Ledgers | Gun Violence Archive the number of mass shootings each year since 2014 continues on an upward trajectory:

2014 - 272
2015 - 336
2016 - 383
2017 - 348
2018 - 336
2019 - 415
2020 - 610
2021 - 690
2022 - 646

If not using the killer's name or redacting manifestos was working, the numbers wouldn't look like this.


jmo

It would take analysis of that data to determine which factors are causing that increase. Some of it may also be due to the increased availability of weapons of mass destruction to teens and young adults. Those numbers don’t break down the data into age cohorts.

Im sharing the past actions of LE, experts and the news media to attempts to mitigate the chance of young people committing copy cat mass murders. People taking issue with the voluntary practice might take it up with some authority in their state or town.

 

[Cedars]

ETA Sorry, I had written an original draft and then edited, but didn't clean up before posting

If not using the killer's name or redacting manifestos was working, the numbers wouldn't look like this.

The names of some past school shooters are internationally famous. Everyone remembers them, rather than the names of their victims. I won't make a list.

Now, people are losing track of who is responsible for various shootings...not because the names are redacted, but just because there's so many.

However, they do become locally famous. And some psychologists argue that's the whole point of the shooting.

Mass shooters crave notoriety. Here’s how media plays a major role in that

A growing body of research shows suppressing coverage of mass shooters reduces the dangers of copycats. Experts tell Bevan Hurley how the media can do their part to help.

www.independent.co.uk

Before the school attack, they were nobody, even, according to social expectations, 'losers'. Even their former friends had forgotten them. So perhaps the motivation for the shooting was 'this will make everyone notice me. I'll be famous forever in this town. Better a dead celebrity than a living loser...'.

Whether or not media redaction is possible, or whether it will prevent it from happening again is hard to say. Perhaps it's too late for that.

But, to some, giving them fame, publicity, and attention is exactly what they wanted, so 'let's not do that'. To some, that's kind of rewarding them, giving them what they really wanted all along.

JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

Now that they have filed a lawsuit, they've given Nashville police a legit excuse for not releasing the writings. It will be delay, delay, delay.


JMO

given that NPD was going to release it then abruptly did an about face, its clear they were directed by higher ups to not release it. Absent a court order, they will never release it. This is going to take a while, but it will be released. If find this appalling that this information is sealed.

 

[Ontario Mom]

What if they were only known as 'the loser who murdered the following children:....".

If the chance for fame is taken away, perhaps some wouldn't do it.

But more viscerally, we wouldn't be rewarding them by giving them what they wanted: fame, attention, concern.

JMO

I wish it were possible really, to completely wipe their identity out like that.
If the notoriety is the main motive for some of them, that would eliminate motive immediately.
Or, one would think, anyway.

In this day and age though, I just don't think it's possible. Even if all the mainstream media outlets did it, those who knew the shooter would name them publicly through the internet.

 

[Cedars]

I wish it were possible really, to completely wipe their identity out like that.
If the notoriety is the main motive for some of them, that would eliminate motive immediately.
Or, one would think, anyway.

In this day and age though, I just don't think it's possible. Even if all the mainstream media outlets did it, those who knew the shooter would name them publicly through the internet.

I agree, I had actually edited my initial post to include that reality.

However, I think that might be the reasoning behind many who don't want the 'manifesto' published.

Personally, I feel that, when it comes to horrific crimes, science doesn't have any answers. Because people can't be put into test tubes and analysed like predictable, identical, chemical reactions.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Link to the case documents.

The four public records access cases regarding the Covenant School shooting pending in Davidson County Chancery Court have been consolidated. The controlling case is Clata Brewer v. Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County (No. 23-0538-III). The Court’s two May 24, 2023 Orders on motions to intervene are here and here. The Court’s May 25, 2023 scheduling and procedural Order is here.

Chancery Clerk and Master of Metropolitan Nashville & Davidson County – Chancery Clerk and Master of Metropolitan Nashville & Davidson County

chanceryclerkandmaster.nashville.gov

This cause is slated to be heard by this Court on June 8, 2023 beginning at 1:00 p.m. To ensure that the parties are given adequate time to present their argument, the Court has adopted the following schedule and procedure for the efficiency of the case.

SHOW CAUSE HEARING DATES AND TIMES:
The Show Cause Hearing in this matter shall take place on Thursday, June 8, 2023 beginning at 10:00 A.M. and shall continue through Friday, June 9, 2023 beginning at 1:00 P.M., if needed.

BRIEFING SCHEDULE:
The following briefing schedule shall be in effect for any party desiring to file briefs in this matter:
- The briefs of the Respondent shall be filed with the Court on May 30, 2023.
- The briefs of the Intervenors shall be filed with the Court on May 30, 2023.
- The response from the Petitioners shall be filed on June 2, 2023.
- Any reply from the Respondent shall be filed on June 5, 2023.
The close of ALL briefing is June 5, 2023 at 4:00 p.m.

 

[SolVic]

This was always weird for me. Female rampage killers (especially solo ones) are extremely rare. The only others I can think of are Brenda Spencer, Sylvia Seegrist, Laurie Dann, Jennifer San Marco, Amy Bishop, Sherie Lash, and Latina Williams.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Does not naming a mass killer in the media actually discourage the next murderous psycho from doing the same thing or worse? How can anyone possibly know that? Is there a database somewhere of potential mass killers who changed their mind because NBC or CNN refused to name the last one and didn't give him or her as much press? I know that sounds flippant and I don't mean it to but how else would anyone even know if it's working, unless the mass killers (that changed their minds) told them it worked?

I believe if a man or woman has decided they're going to commit a terrible crime, they're going to do it no matter who's manifesto was redacted or which mass killer didn't get named on mainstream media. I think these measures are more realistically in place to make the public feel better. I don't think they'll stop anyone from doing anything they want to do.

Mostly I don't believe it's working based on some of the stats I'm seeing about mass shootings. According to the Gun Violence Archive Past Summary Ledgers | Gun Violence Archive the number of mass shootings each year since 2014 continues on an upward trajectory:

2014 - 272
2015 - 336
2016 - 383
2017 - 348
2018 - 336
2019 - 415
2020 - 610
2021 - 690
2022 - 646

If not using the killer's name or redacting manifestos was working, the numbers wouldn't look like this.


jmo

But in the states, we aren't doing that. Their names and everything about them is online. I don't think that just refusing to publish their names would be enough. Clearly, this is a huge issue, but our country just doesn't want to address it.

 

[Sundog]

Court hearings are this week on June 8 (and June 9, if needed) regarding the release of the writings of the Nashville shooter of Covenant Church School. I wonder if there will be cameras in the courtroom.

 

[Betty P]

This was always weird for me. Female rampage killers (especially solo ones) are extremely rare. The only others I can think of are Brenda Spencer, Sylvia Seegrist, Laurie Dann, Jennifer San Marco, Amy Bishop, Sherie Lash, and Latina Williams.

Brenda Spencer and Laurie Dann both had mental illness.

Dann had a lot of access to quality health care, including many mental health experts. She was eventually diagnosed with OCD, but I wonder if her problem was Asperger's Syndrome? She had a mean, hostile personality. She bought her own gun, but local police tried to talk her parents into making her give it up. They were unsuccessful.

Spencer had a brain injury from childhood, mental illness and a horrible home environment. She lived in poverty with her alcoholic father. Hers was another tragic case of a mentally ill parent insisting on buying a gun for his mentally ill child.

Even today, JMO, there's not a whole lot that can be done to fully resolve these kinds of mental illness, but making it impossible for them to get a gun would prevent deaths.

 

[Sundog]

What we know about Covenant School shooter's writings as legal battle brews in Nashville

Nashville police said they don't object to the release of redacted versions of the shooter's writings if ordered to do so by the court.

www.tennessean.com

Why MNPD says there is still an open investigation​

While MNPD believes the shooter acted alone, “we do not know for sure,” wrote Lt. Brent Gibson, overseeing MNPD’s investigation of the Covenant School shooting, in a May 17 court filing.

“Even though the assailant died at the school, the criminal investigative file does not automatically, instantly close. Investigators must still work to gather and analyze evidence in the case and to determine if related crimes were committed, are being planned, or whether other people were involved,” Gibson wrote.

Gibson said police are reviewing the shooter’s bank, social media, phone, Internet and other records, and interviewing all individuals identified in those records to see if the shooter had assistance in planning the attack or purchasing weapons.

The investigation is expected to last another 12 months, Gibson said.

​

 

[Betty P]

What we know about Covenant School shooter's writings as legal battle brews in Nashville

Nashville police said they don't object to the release of redacted versions of the shooter's writings if ordered to do so by the court.

www.tennessean.com

Why MNPD says there is still an open investigation​

While MNPD believes the shooter acted alone, “we do not know for sure,” wrote Lt. Brent Gibson, overseeing MNPD’s investigation of the Covenant School shooting, in a May 17 court filing.

“Even though the assailant died at the school, the criminal investigative file does not automatically, instantly close. Investigators must still work to gather and analyze evidence in the case and to determine if related crimes were committed, are being planned, or whether other people were involved,” Gibson wrote.

Gibson said police are reviewing the shooter’s bank, social media, phone, Internet and other records, and interviewing all individuals identified in those records to see if the shooter had assistance in planning the attack or purchasing weapons.

The investigation is expected to last another 12 months, Gibson said.

​

This has probably become SOP for most of these types of mass shootings, and for good reason. Every incident needs to be carefully and thoroughly investigated. Good for MNPD. JMO

ETA: Remember, they just went through that horrible Christmas bombing downtown in 2020. They just completed their most recent report on that one last July

SAFECOM and NCSWIC Release Communications Dependencies Case Study: Nashville Christmas Day Bombing | CISA

www.cisa.gov

 

[PrairieWind]

This has probably become SOP for most of these types of mass shootings, and for good reason. Every incident needs to be carefully and thoroughly investigated. Good for MNPD. JMO

ETA: Remember, they just went through that horrible Christmas bombing downtown in 2020. They just completed their most recent report on that one last July

SAFECOM and NCSWIC Release Communications Dependencies Case Study: Nashville Christmas Day Bombing | CISA

www.cisa.gov

This is administrative/bureaucratic double talk. The police department is certainly able to continue their investigation as long as they want. But, they can't keep secret what should be publicly available document just by saying "its under investigation." The Court may let them get away with that once. But the second time, the Court is going to want to see what they are actually doing.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

What we know about Covenant School shooter's writings as legal battle brews in Nashville

Nashville police said they don't object to the release of redacted versions of the shooter's writings if ordered to do so by the court.

www.tennessean.com

Why MNPD says there is still an open investigation​

While MNPD believes the shooter acted alone, “we do not know for sure,” wrote Lt. Brent Gibson, overseeing MNPD’s investigation of the Covenant School shooting, in a May 17 court filing.

“Even though the assailant died at the school, the criminal investigative file does not automatically, instantly close. Investigators must still work to gather and analyze evidence in the case and to determine if related crimes were committed, are being planned, or whether other people were involved,” Gibson wrote.

Gibson said police are reviewing the shooter’s bank, social media, phone, Internet and other records, and interviewing all individuals identified in those records to see if the shooter had assistance in planning the attack or purchasing weapons.

The investigation is expected to last another 12 months, Gibson said.

​

I’m not buying this at all.
This has become a standard tactic used by LE and prosecutors so they don’t have to release any information to the public…claim there’s still an investigation going on and that others might be involved.
It’s being used in the Delphi murder case even though there is an arrest. I understand some things being withheld, but not everything. Eight months after the arrest and still no one else charged. There is no one else. My opinion only, it is being kept silent to delay the embarrassment to LE over their investigation.
In this case, the shooter is dead. People who may have been involved would have been swept up pretty quickly. They simply do not want to release the killer’s so called manifesto, probably more for political reasons than fear of copycats

 

[Sundog]

I’m not buying this at all.
This has become a standard tactic used by LE and prosecutors so they don’t have to release any information to the public…claim there’s still an investigation going on and that others might be involved.
It’s being used in the Delphi murder case even though there is an arrest. I understand some things being withheld, but not everything. Eight months after the arrest and still no one else charged. There is no one else. My opinion only, it is being kept silent to delay the embarrassment to LE over their investigation.
In this case, the shooter is dead. People who may have been involved would have been swept up pretty quickly. They simply do not want to release the killer’s so called manifesto, probably more for political reasons than fear of copycats

Agree, and it's likely they will claim that this justifies releasing a redacted version of the documents while saying they are still investigating. But in this case, there are a number of high profile organizations calling for the release of the documents, including state legislators, and I don't think they will let this go.

 

[MyBelle]

What we know about Covenant School shooter's writings as legal battle brews in Nashville

Nashville police said they don't object to the release of redacted versions of the shooter's writings if ordered to do so by the court.

www.tennessean.com

Why MNPD says there is still an open investigation​

While MNPD believes the shooter acted alone, “we do not know for sure,” wrote Lt. Brent Gibson, overseeing MNPD’s investigation of the Covenant School shooting, in a May 17 court filing.

“Even though the assailant died at the school, the criminal investigative file does not automatically, instantly close. Investigators must still work to gather and analyze evidence in the case and to determine if related crimes were committed, are being planned, or whether other people were involved,” Gibson wrote.

Gibson said police are reviewing the shooter’s bank, social media, phone, Internet and other records, and interviewing all individuals identified in those records to see if the shooter had assistance in planning the attack or purchasing weapons.

The investigation is expected to last another 12 months, Gibson said.

​

BBM. I wonder if the shooter belonged to some type of social media group that promoted violence directed at strangers and that is what police are investigating.

iirc, the shooter's parents and brother were on her "list" yet she lived with her parents and they are still alive. The Sandy Hook shooter killed his mother before he headed to the school.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Agree, and it's likely they will claim that this justifies releasing a redacted version of the documents while saying they are still investigating. But in this case, there are a number of high profile organizations calling for the release of the documents, including state legislators, and I don't think they will let this go.

I don’t mind if there are redactions. There should be some redactions in my opinion. Things like names of innocent people, addresses, phone numbers, and any diagrams detailing floor plans of schools or buildings and probably other things I can’t think of, should be redacted. It does need to be released though.

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM. I wonder if the shooter belonged to some type of social media group that promoted violence directed at strangers and that is what police are investigating.

iirc, the shooter's parents and brother were on her "list" yet she lived with her parents and they are still alive. The Sandy Hook shooter killed his mother before he headed to the school.

JMO

That's a very common thought among folks I've seen discussing this online. i.e., a political move to shield a specific group from justifiable anger and outrage for ever promoting violence in the first place.

It actually makes me feel sick to think it might be true, but the longer they keep it from being released all they're doing is feeding the rumor mill.

jmo

 

[MyBelle]

That's a very common thought among folks I've seen discussing this online. i.e., a political move to shield a specific group from justifiable anger and outrage for ever promoting violence in the first place.

It actually makes me feel sick to think it might be true, but the longer they keep it from being released all they're doing is feeding the rumor mill.

jmo

I don't believe it is a political move at all. I think the open question of whether the shooter acted alone or was influenced by what was being posted on social media is what they are genuinely investigating.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/politics/us-government-intel-leak/index.html

The arrest of Jack Teixeira, 21, comes following a fast-moving search by the US government for the identity of the leaker who posted classified documents to a social media platform popular with video gamers.