AMBER ALERT TN - Summer Moon-Utah Wells, 5, Rogersville, 15 Jun 2021 #32

[K9Enzo]

With children I worry about them taking short cuts to a previous visited destination (creek, bike trail, clearing among the trees, etc.) Maybe they only did that with an older sibling and thought they knew the way. Now they are completely lost going or attempting to return home. I also think at that age their movements might not make any sense - they are just moving. With her age it's concerning. IMO

 

[sk716]

With children I worry about them taking short cuts to a previous visited destination (creek, bike trail, clearing among the trees, etc.) Maybe they only did that with an older sibling and thought they knew the way. Now they are completely lost going or attempting to return home. I also think at that age their movements might not make any sense - they are just moving. With her age it's concerning. IMO

The terrain around Ben Hill Rd is interesting and if you factor in uphill climbs and inhabited/cleared areas, there aren't a lot of directions she could have gone to get lost. Look at the terrain map then sat and you'll see what I mean.

 

[lonetraveler]

The first time the scream was mentioned to the public, DW stated that the neighbor heard a 'muffled' scream. It was like someone holding their hand over someone's mouth. Then later in the news interview, the neighbor stated the scream sounded 'animalistic'.

So I don't know how the scream really sounded.

Too many things have been told second hand in this case.

BYM the very word 'animalistic' is frightening to me. In my mind I can imagine if a mother discovered her daughter dead and covered her mouth and screamed in horror, that it would sound animalistic. JMO

 

[Trackergd]

Thanks @Oriah! Trying to make the puzzle pieces fit. How much actual time had transpired between when she came home and then was discovered missing, how long it would have taken her to walk to the holler by the route she was most comfortable with (leaning towards dog trail to road due to SAR dog scent hit), and why the holler was the first place that jumped into CW's mind to go look for SW?

 

[sk716]

Thanks @Oriah! Trying to make the puzzle pieces fit. How much actual time had transpired between when she came home and then was discovered missing, how long it would have taken her to walk to the holler by the route she was most comfortable with (leaning towards dog trail to road due to SAR dog scent hit), and why the holler was the first place that jumped into CW's mind to go look for SW?

If the 'holler' is that spot down at the bottom that looks to be full of cars and other junk, that would have been my favorite place to sneak off to play as a kid, but I would have been closer to 8 or 9 before I would have gone that far alone.

 

[OtisC]

I am new to the details of this case but familiar with the local terrain and demographics.

I have serious doubts about any random abduction theory in this case. Very remote area with limited access and egress points along with numerous dogs makes this such a high risk location for a random abduction.

I am leaning more towards a crime than a lost child. At this point, I have no strong evidence for either theory.

I am looking forward to learning more about this case.

 

[sk716]

I am new to the details of this case but familiar with the local terrain and demographics.

I have serious doubts about any random abduction theory in this case. Very remote area with limited access and egress points along with numerous dogs makes this such a high risk location for a random abduction.

I am leaning more towards a crime than a lost child. At this point, I have no strong evidence for either theory.

I am looking forward to learning more about this case.

BBM. Yeah, that's the problem with this case. There is no evidence and what is known has not been released.

In the modern world, it's really hard for an adult person to not be tracked all day every day. Our phones are beacons broadcast to satellites telling anyone with the proper authority just exactly what coordinates we were at every few moments.

This is one of those very rare cases where I wouldn't have a serious objection to a geo-fence warrant just to see exactly who was on Ben Hill Road that afternoon.

 

[OtisC]

BBM. Yeah, that's the problem with this case. There is no evidence and what is known has not been released.

In the modern world, it's really hard for an adult person to not be tracked all day every day. Our phones are beacons broadcast to satellites telling anyone with the proper authority just exactly what coordinates we were at every few moments.

This is one of those very rare cases where I wouldn't have a serious objection to a geo-fence warrant just to see exactly who was on Ben Hill Road that afternoon.

I would not be in favor of the geofence tactic but understand why you might lean in that direction.

Outside the privacy concern, I don't believe the data would show anyone who is new to the area. If this was an abduction, I believe it was by a person known to the family. I think it is just as possible that Summer was not abducted. That leaves the door open for a crime to have been created but also that Summer walked away on her own and became lost.

Along the theory that she wondered off, it does not line up well with the timeframe given by the family. I think they could be mistaken or less than truthful about the timeframe and still not have committed a crime. If the timeframe was merely minutes, I do not see how she, as a five year old, could have wondered too far from the house. The wondering off theory seems more likely id the timeframe is a few hours or more.

Just my opinions.

 

[Oriah]

Thanks @Oriah! Trying to make the puzzle pieces fit. How much actual time had transpired between when she came home and then was discovered missing, how long it would have taken her to walk to the holler by the route she was most comfortable with (leaning towards dog trail to road due to SAR dog scent hit), and why the holler was the first place that jumped into CW's mind to go look for SW?

@Trackergd- dog trail to road to church, I would suppose 20-25 min, 5 yr old-style? I disagree that this is an unlikely scenario for a child on a mission. All of the locations discussed: the dog trail, the driveway, to the road, to the shed at the bottom of the clearcut, to the holler...all very achievable by a healthy and mobile child if unsupervised for 30min or more, IMO. I also disagree that the remoteness of the area disallows for abduction. There is easy access via vehicle in and out of the area. I'm not sure where the idea comes from that there is no vehicle traffic through the area? The challenge might be turning back midway (say, just past the Wells drive) and backtracking without being noticed by anyone who might be out and about. But otherwise, the 'remoteness' comes from the surrounding properties/land. However, we are accustomed to heavily treed and forested low mountainous areas, just a mile or so from moderate size towns and cities...so that may be why I don't consider the area of Summer's disappearance 'remote'. It is definitely hilly and the geography is laden with, well, foliage and forest. But I would not call it 'remote.' I mean, people live there. They drive. They sit outside on summer nights. Kwim? Rural to me is miles and miles of land of any sort, before you come upon life. This is not that. Hope that makes sense! Does anyone else see it this way?

 

[sk716]

@Trackergd- dog trail to road to church, I would suppose 20-25 min, 5 yr old-style? I disagree that this is an unlikely scenario for a child on a mission. All of the locations discussed: the dog trail, the driveway, to the road, to the shed at the bottom of the clearcut, to the holler...all very achievable by a healthy and mobile child if unsupervised for 30min or more, IMO. I also disagree that the remoteness of the area disallows for abduction. There is easy access via vehicle in and out of the area. I'm not sure where the idea comes from that there is no vehicle traffic through the area? The challenge might be turning back midway (say, just past the Wells drive) and backtracking without being noticed by anyone who might be out and about. But otherwise, the 'remoteness' comes from the surrounding properties/land. However, we are accustomed to heavily treed and forested low mountainous areas, just a mile or so from moderate size towns and cities...so that may be why I don't consider the area of Summer's disappearance 'remote'. It is definitely hilly and the geography is laden with, well, foliage and forest. But I would not call it 'remote.' I mean, people live there. They drive. They sit outside on summer nights. Kwim? Rural to me is miles and miles of land of any sort, before you come upon life. This is not that. Hope that makes sense! Does anyone else see it this way?

Agreed, the area is rural, but not remote. It would be possible to drive a circle all the way around the Ben Hill property. The piece connecting back to Beech Creek Road is marked as a driveway but it connects Beech Creek Rd to Simpson Rd.

 

[Unalienable Rights]

Kingsport Times-News editorial about social media mis-information and conspiracy theories being harmful to Summer's investigation.

Editorial: Misinformation isn't helping find Summer Wells

 

[2.curious]

Kingsport Times-News editorial about social media mis-information and conspiracy theories being harmful to Summer's investigation.

Editorial: Misinformation isn't helping find Summer Wells

From The Times News - You may also help by refraining from engaging in useless, clueless and potentially damaging discussion of this case online.
Editorial: Misinformation isn't helping find Summer Wells | Editorials | timesnews.net

One of the most damaging elements of this case has been the parents in my opinion.
DW was on social media constantly including several YT channels, taking the focus off of SW.
CW will not talk, seems to be more concerned about opinions of others on social media.
CH will not be involved at all.

MOO

 

[AbbeyBabbey]

One of the most damaging elements of this case has been the parents in my opinion.
DW was on social media constantly including several YT channels, taking the focus off of SW.
CW will not talk, seems to be more concerned about opinions of others on social media.
CH will not be involved at all.

MOO

Experts say otherwise, IMO. Coincidentally (or not), it's what some of us have been saying all along.
Editorial: Misinformation isn't helping find Summer Wells | Editorials | timesnews.net

...doesn’t have a clue about where the investigation stands much less what investigators know that we don’t.

Investigators have said repeatedly that the case of Summer Wells has been hampered by the massive outpouring of non- information and speculation that has made it more difficult to separate out potentially useful information. ...the clueless sleuths spew their conspiracy theories around like fertilizer on a field.

...law enforcement was treated with respect because everyone knew they knew the most about whatever case was being discussed.

 

[Ontario Mom]

While I don't think they've fostered a great deal of sympathy due to some of the things they've said/done/not done, I don't believe Summer's parents have brought in any sort of "damaging element" to the case at all. They've sadly, just brought out the ugly in some people.

I agree with this editorial completely. So does the TOS of WS, as a matter of fact (victim friendly, LE friendly, no gossip, rumor, profanity, name calling, etc).

Not allowing the very garbage the editorial specifically mentions, is what makes this forum head and shoulders above the other platforms for discussion on cases like this.

My hat is off always, to all the mods for keeping WS a respectable format.

 

[sk716]

Kingsport Times-News editorial about social media mis-information and conspiracy theories being harmful to Summer's investigation.

Editorial: Misinformation isn't helping find Summer Wells

Too many people went looking for their fifteen minutes of fame and muddied the waters. Now no one believes anyone about anything.

 

[tlcya]

You may also help by refraining from engaging in useless, clueless and potentially damaging discussion of this case online. Editorial: Misinformation isn't helping find Summer Wells

This right up here? This is why I have stopped commenting on this case. I am still hoping Summer will be found and we will have the answers to the many questions this case left me with. But my continued commenting, with nothing but speculation and no new facts to chew on, there isn't much to say that doesn't add to the misinformation and rumor mill.

 

[BlueShoe]

I agree that this case has gone off the rails. In my opinion that is due to a combination of odd statements by people close to Summer, YouTube creators who are just making the most outrageous statements (not all, but quite a few), and the general silence of LE. If some family members had not been so eager to go on various social media sites and say very odd things, if the creators of those sites had not been so eager to run with the very strangest comments of family members and others, if LE had been more reassuring (I know they don't owe us anything and can keep things close to the vest, but they can still come on now and then and at least let us know this remains a high-priority case and that they are actively engaged in ways other than slogging through uninformed "tips"), this could be much better for everyone. MOO

 

[Willow Knight]

BBM. Yeah, that's the problem with this case. There is no evidence and what is known has not been released.

In the modern world, it's really hard for an adult person to not be tracked all day every day. Our phones are beacons broadcast to satellites telling anyone with the proper authority just exactly what coordinates we were at every few moments.

This is one of those very rare cases where I wouldn't have a serious objection to a geo-fence warrant just to see exactly who was on Ben Hill Road that afternoon.

Ok, I did google geofence but not sure what it is exactly. Would it be something that can determine all cell phone activity from a tower? On a particular day?

I would absolutely support this if used in the same manner a home search warrant is obtained. Would also hope than an Amber Alert would be enough cause for a judge to issue one.

Heck, even if a warrant could not be obtained, why not use one for all the property the Wells own and all public roadway adjacent to the Well's property. Also include any neighbors that willing allow such a search of records. Should the warrant specify the time for example, 3:00pm to 7:00 pm that day. Now all this is assuming a geo fence is obtaining tower records on a particular day.

 

[Willow Knight]

Kingsport Times-News editorial about social media mis-information and conspiracy theories being harmful to Summer's investigation.

Editorial: Misinformation isn't helping find Summer Wells

Quotes from the article. More at Article.

(((What’s clearly obvious is that this commenter doesn’t have a clue about where the investigation stands much less what investigators know that we don’t.)))

((((Investigators have said repeatedly that the case of Summer Wells has been hampered by the massive outpouring of non- information and speculation that has made it more difficult to separate out potentially useful information. Before the digital era these conversations were held privately. Unfortunately, that’s no longer the case, and the clueless sleuths spew their conspiracy theories around like fertilizer on a field.)))))

((((Most folks continue to engage each other with a measure of respect when face-to-face. But with the internet they can hide, and regurgitate at will.))))

((((You may also help by refraining from engaging in useless, clueless and potentially damaging discussion of this case online.))))

Above quotes taken from this article. Editorial: Misinformation isn't helping find Summer Wells

These comments sound, to me, that LE knows a lot more than the general public. Gives me hope that this case will be solved. LE also sounds as if they are working hard and frustrated by the public. I must keep reminding myself, just because I don't know, that doesn't mean LE doesn't.
I also believe all of us want answers for SW, even if we have different theories. All theories are being investigated.

Hope for SW.

 

[sk716]

Ok, I did google geofence but not sure what it is exactly. Would it be something that can determine all cell phone activity from a tower? On a particular day?

I would absolutely support this if used in the same manner a home search warrant is obtained. Would also hope than an Amber Alert would be enough cause for a judge to issue one.

Heck, even if a warrant could not be obtained, why not use one for all the property the Wells own and all public roadway adjacent to the Well's property. Also include any neighbors that willing allow such a search of records. Should the warrant specify the time for example, 3:00pm to 7:00 pm that day. Now all this is assuming a geo fence is obtaining tower records on a particular day.

I object to geofence warrants in principle. I want to say that first, even though I suggested it.

A geofence warrant essentially pulls up every device connected to a cellular tower within a certain geographical area. It's incredibly invasive and very, very rarely issued.