trial day 37: the defense continues its case in chief #108

[Chester_from_THM]

Is this witness ever going to get around to speaking about THIS relationship?

I agree, but really it is JWs fault, not LV.

 

[KMouse]

Vicarious trauma? Now I am the one who just can't get a break.

What the heck does vicarious trauma have to do with Travis being murdered?

 

[katiecoolady]

Hey KCL! Now that you are seeing this from TV, looking at JA's face, are you noticing her looking at the jury? It's pretty obvious today. Which juror is she glancing at? The Wrestler?

Glad you are with us today.

Watching on my iPad so not as big but not the wrestler- he's on the back to her far right. I think she's shark like scanning and also checking out juan

 

[TigerBalm]

OH SNAP she just woke me up

Male victims
Equalizer
Weapon

 

[rose222]

So is she telling us why JA got a knife and gun (equalizers) so she could carry out of her murder successfully?

 

[imawitch]

I haven't seen Juan take a single note! LOL

I some times wonder if JM has a photographic memory?

 

[Mykeru]

For those not able to watch the live stream right now, this is a exact video replica.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

Appropriate, considering the last witness.

 

[TexMex]

An equalizer like a 6" knife? When you happen to be in the shower cause she, the "budding photographer", decides she wants some photos?

 

[DebinGA]

Lisa testified to asking Travis to spend the night with her for protection, because she was afraid of Jodi post-tire slashings.

 

[MandyLeigh]

I am sure Travis was "emotionally tired" and needed a break but he never got a break because Jodi obsessively stalked/pursued him. How many calls? How many texts? Where did she move to after the break up? How many PPL events did she insert herself into? Who joined the church of Mormon and inserted herself into those functions?

I wish Travis had that. If he had to go at the very least, I wish Travis had that vacation to Cancun. Shut the Jodi calls off and just be in that peaceful world. Even enjoy some time with a woman who had real respect for and the people who he considered family and dear friends.

Just one more experience in this life...having the time of his life.

I wish.

 

[Amster]

Now I am getting offended...women this women that....what ?

Most women by their 30's have experienced what? Did she say violence? I'm so done listening to her....

 

[scorpio24]

Men "laugh it off?" What sad and stereotypical testimony for males out there who are being abused AND who are too embarrassed to tell anyone or report it! :furious:

 

[Curious Me]

Gender based testimony thanks to Willmott. Every question she asks seems to divide the sexes. Do men fear the same way as woman? ALV says parents give their girls and boys different advice.

It takes a little bit more for men to be battered, according to ALV.
IMO, taking a man by surprise and unaware in his shower made it easier for Jodi to kill Travis.

When are women praised for their anger?
Okay, we are going there now. ALV sticking Jodi into the victim role as she speaks because Jodi is a woman. This talk seems out-dated, like old info from back in the day.

Listen, Willmott asks gender questions everytime!

 

[Kensie]

Did she see the movie "Obsessed" ?

HA. This trial has definitely upped my liquor consumption. Cannot wait to get home and drown my sorrows in wine.

STFU lady or say something worthwhile and relevant to this case.

 

[noZme]

Lordy, I saw JA attempting to wipe away a tear.

I don't see what any of this has to do with their relationship. At all. If she was physically abused, she would have gone to the ER immediately, shouted it from the rooftops, because that is the type of person she is. She's not a demure, shrinking violet.

LaV could be a very effective advocate for a real DV victim; did she really buy JA's lies? While traveling today, I have listened to some of the testimony, just got to the beach, logged on & this is the 1st post I read.... funny because when I was driving, I was thinking it's almost time to cue the waterworks.... it's coming.... surely Wimott has it choreographed...poor Jodi hearing/realizing that she was manipulated.. Gag!

As for the way Travis talked to & about JA on the phone sex recording, I have always thought she had taught him to speak that way to her. She was much more, shall we say "sexually sophisticated" & provoked the nasty talk. He was parrotting her fantasy back at her.

As for the sexual sophistication, what I really think is more in terms of the old joke about "she would look like a porcupine".

 

[Pink Panther]

This woman was originally hired as a mitigation consultant, wasn't she?

 

[Ammonitida]

Jodi was a domestic, but there was no relationship. Travis paid Jodi for sex, and Jodi liked the sex. :moo:

Not really. She didn't need to be paid and it was she who used him for sex after their breakup. That's one of the things that upset Travis. According to Jodi, she didn't want to be in a committed relationship with him because he wasn't a "family man", but she continued having sex with him and attempted to control his relationships with other women. She USED him for sex by Jodi's own reasoning. Hence that infamous facebook message regarding the heart beat with a dildo comment.

 

[wenwe4]

Hostage Stockholm syndrome . . . . bank tellers who were taken hostage for days . . . started identifying with the aggressor . . . precursor to hostage syndrome . . . 1) perceive a threat to physical or emotional well being . . .2) . .person who making the theat can carry it out . . .3) . . . can be lack of physical aggression . . . . over time relationship stabilizes . . .people go to the restroom talk to each other . . .absence of violence can be seen as kindness . . . pereption gets skewed . . .4) . . when in terrified situation afraid someone hurt you, your focus is on people with power - perception . . .

5) .. most people think they cannot escape . . .. perception you cannot get out . . . if children involved might not be able to get out . . . perception is you can't leave

perception of kindness - not just a perception . . in abusive relationship - people who are abusive are also kind . . .there really is kindness.

how does it apply to DV relationship?
perceived threat of physical violence - also perceived emotional violence - emotional well being is at stake . . . they are going to leave them or put them down . . not just physical . . . if person has done it they are capable of making the threat . . .between episodes there is kindness . . .go on vacation together, enjoy tv together, kindness and bonding going on . . .

makes it really difficult to leave you hope it will stay like that . . .hope it remain connected in that way . . . hope we can keep it like this . . . this evidence of this period of time . . . hopeful again -seeing person as the time when you fell in love . . . . until you stop believing and stop the hope. . . . depends on the person how long it takes

chronic apprehension - people who are substance abusers get a break . . . act out, but people who live with sub abusers never get a break . . . never know when the next shoe is going to fall . . .

develop apprehension believe this will happen again . . .

talk bout steps of how relation like this formed . .. . when he calls you a name first time would you leave . . . it doesn't start immediately . . . . if he hit you on first date what are the chance you would leave - pretty good . . . look @ build up of relationship . . . it is more gradual . . . where things look good and the perpetrator of DV is filled with new love and not filled with fear . . . when relation stabilzes . . . fear comes up.

Lenore Walker - first book . . . Battered Woman . . .1979 . . . cycle of violence . . tension building, incident phase, honeymoon phase - make up and rekindle hope/belief change -flowers and gifts . . . .some people never get a honeymoon .. . or it diminishes over time . . .tension building and episode don't get honeymoon - gifts and apologies don't come (over time).

No magic number of time (ie:2 min tension building phase) . . . depending on relationship you could have long tension building times . . .. tension builds , cycle of violence - that happens in lots relationship have tension have argument and then make up . . . . cyclical and it goes on over time . . . diminishing of being sorry . . . . . not a time you can actually say . . .depends on relationship

relationships that are horrific you can have incidents every week . . most people get a little better break than that. . . . .you see a cyclical nature . . we have tension cuz no money to pay bills this month , I don't like how you spend money and vise versa . . . then we have argument and make up . . . that is the difference . . how it gets resolved.

in Domestic violence the episode would be abusive . . . the person would make up but never really resolution that happened . . . . cycle of violence escalates over time in intensity and freuquency . . . .

in healthy relationship can be resolved but don't do the same thing as you are not coming from the same place. . .

is there a difference in your practice counseling men and women . . . .
actually let's talk fear first

men and women differ in fear . . . . research done in late 80's . . numbers of behaviors that women do for safety precautions they do everyday . . .where they walk, keys out, not get inan elevator alone, . . . men usually do not do that . . .most women in their 30's have had some kind of exchange with a man where they are one down . . . .vicarious trauma . ..don't think about take keys out but I do . . . I do go out wit other people @ night . .. don't go out by self walk @ night . . . .

parents give children different advise to boy and girls about going out @ night.

lots tv shows on - movies where women arebeing stalked . . . . lots of DV or see someone who looks like they have been great all their lives - person suddenly goes crazy and hurts their partner . . . once someone has done something frightening we get more frightened by it . . .

if I was coming @ you and hitting you you might feel like you could grab my arms and stop m but I may not feel that way without an equalizer like a weapon . .. . not that men cant be battered but it takes a little morebecause women tend tobe afraid more quickly.

latest research in heterosexual relationship . . .woman hits a man . . .man laugh it off or be angry more frequently . . . psychological response is different.

if people are reading murder mysteries, seeing things on tv, movies involve stalking women, rape, crimes against women . .. women have a lot of vicarious trauma when they see them . . . can be scared for period of time . .. someone try to get into their house aftr them . . .even months later they are still afraid . .. . a certain specific evening when it was dark out . . show behaviors where they look around . .

anger . . different from women and men are viewed . . . .when are women praised for their anger? . . . generally never or in defense of their children . . .what do people call angry women? . . . .you can guess. . it is a perception - judged more harshly for an angry woman vs angry man . . . . judged harshly for men who look sad . . .women judged for assertiveness.

crossing a cultural norm for women to be angry . . .judged or perceived when out of relationship and saying something not nice to partner . . .. not an emotion . . .not that they don't get angry tend to be less direct with it. .

 

[hindsight2020]

ALV: Angry women are judged more harshly than men

. . . ok, ALV how do we judge JA aka Alex/fatal attraction ???!!!

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Women are judged harshly for anger? This woman's brain stopped breathing in the 1970's. GMAFB.