trial day 39: the defense continues its case in chief #117

[KandyKane]

BBM
In an ideal world maybe. In reality, they've all formed opinions already about guilt. They may not be fully formed opinions, but you'd have to be a robot not to have a feeling one way or the other at this point.

I'm not saying #5 was justified in whatever she did and we don't even know if forming an opinion was why she was dismissed.

But on that note....if you were a juror and you formed an opinion before deliberations, would you turn yourself in?

It's obvious that #5 was not justified in whatever happened because she was dismissed. Seeing as the defense's motion regarding whatever happened concerning #5 had to do with bias against the defense then it's a safe bet to assume that her dismissal was because whatever happened DID show bias against the defense.

I agree that people are human and are naturally going to have opinions one way or another throughout the trial, BUT they STILL have to keep an open mind and not make any pro or con decisions based on any of their opinions pro or con and remain indecisive until both sides are done. And yes, any juror that feels they aren't going to change their pro or con bias until that time SHOULD turn themselves in and have themselves dismissed. Any juror in any case that at some point in a trial before both sides are finished has already decided on guilt or innocense is unfit to serve. ALL jurors are expected to keep an open mind throughout the WHOLE trial. That is their JOB as a juror. Jurors are also expected to keep their mouths shut about anything about the trial and not express any opinions either pro or con about anything during the trial to anyone including other jurors. Apparently, #5 was unable to do that, it was noted, complained about to the judge, and was found to be misconduct, thus her dismissal.

Neither Jodi nor the defense got rid of #5 on a whim or any personal reasons. The judge would not have dismissed her had she not done something found to be misconduct. The JUDGE made the decision to dismiss her because of whatever it was she did that was considered to be misconduct. Neither side has any power to get rid of any juror for no legitimate reason.

I'm not going to feel sorry for any juror or believe they got screwed somehow by the defense when it was the JUDGE that made the decision that #5 committed some sort of misconduct and deserved to be dismissed.

FAR better that the judge dismissed her than a guilty verdict gets reversed on appeal because the judge DIDN'T dismiss her.

 

[Truth Detector]

And a lot of folks would consider what Travis was doing doggish, but not cheating - certainly not on JA.

Weren't the women he was interested in deeply LDS - thus the cheating didn't involve sex... not to mention it wasn't cheating because he was single.

Travis didn't want to date JA because she wasn't LDS, so she fixed that. Superficially. So it seems like he was rather particular about that... Had he ever dated a non-LDS woman that we know of?

He wasn't cheating - he wasn't in a relationship. JA refused to go away.

BBM

Allegedly -- according to the lying torture-murderess -- the woman whom TA was "making out with" while Arias was peeping in the back window of his house was "a girl from Phoenix" whom their other friends didn't know and ostensibly wasn't Mormon.

Lacking any other corroboration, consider the source.

 

[pferrin]

Since the word Sin has been mentioned many times tonite thought I should share this.

When the Bible was first written the word sin was an archery term...meaning ..to miss the bullseye.

I think we all miss the bullseye sometimes.

Thank goodness that one of the laws of our great country is murder is not legal. And in this case ja was not even going for being a better person and missing the bullseye...she was out to murder.

 

[KarmicLaw]

I think you're right. One thing I can't get out of my head was KatieDDJ speaking on DD about being in the cafeteria (?) and Juror5 asking her if she was in line - KN was right there... Wonder if he suggested that J5 showed too much recognition to KDDJ or something. Certainly she'd recognize her from being in the gallery every day, but didn't he use her name as "someone working for HLN" being part of this..?

I just had an uneasy feeling that the three of them were together in the lunch line and J5 spoke to KDDJ. What defense lawyer wouldn't make that into something? Dunno. Just made me wonder...

I can't tell you how many mistrial motions are made as a result of all parties having to eat in the cafeteria. It's insane and so transparent when the losing side will concoct, fabricate, twist and manipulate even the most innocent of verbal exchanges in order to gain an advantage. It's one of the nasty realities of liars w/o a conscience. Even so much as an "oh excuse me, go ahead" can be turned into something supposedly sinister. I'm so sick of this.

 

[gwenabob]

Religion has alot to do with this crime.

So if the victim (and killer) had been, say, Roman Catholic, do you think the crime would have unfolded the same? In other words, do you really think she killed him because of the religion? And if they had been Methodist or Baptist or athiest she would not have butchered him? She would have merrily let him go? I don't think so. I think Jodi would have done this no matter what faith Travis belonged to. IMO it has nothing to do with religion.

 

[dani]

Watching the reruns of ALV from earlier today. Just dawns on me how absurd it is that this "expert" witness is sitting in judgement of TA. She states that TA lived a deceptive life - that he lied about being a virgin, was a hypocrite to his faith, tat he dated several women at one time....SO WHAT?! Truthfully it's nobody's business but TA's. I so resent this testimony. It's absurd. Throughout all of her testimony she has proved over and over that Jodi should have gotten the message from TA many times, to go away. She kept coming back and set herself to be used by TA, and orchestrated all the events that lead to her murdering him. she made the whole thing happen. May the jury cut through this hocus-pocus to see the truth. I don't know how TA's family has the strength to sit there everyday and listen to this garbage. Breaks my heart.

Every time ALV relates to the jury one of her anecdotes about how her other 'patients' did the same things Jodi did in her relationship with Travis I yell at the screen, "But did they stab their significant other 27 times and shoot him in the head???" (Maybe Juan will ask her for me.):twocents:

 

[Hatfield]

Nope, JA was a Mormon, baptized by TA. After listening to a Mormon Elder that taught her the discussions..I think she was serious about becoming a Mormon. I became a Catholic at one point in my life. Attended RCIA. Becoming a Catholic required much more study/time that it does to become a Mormon IMO. If you listen to Mimi Hall's testimony (JM had her tell about the sins of Mormonism) and TA's friends that were on NG or Dr. Drew..they harped on how he was a virgin, stumbled and his "natural man" prevailed..That is why religion plays a part in this trial. TA could not be a normal man, JA had to be his dirty little secret. He had to pretend he was a virgin. Elder Jensen: (already posted this, but the thread moves so fast). This is the Mormon elder that taught JA. http://www.theculturalhallpodcast.com/2013/03/special-episode-elder-jensenjodi-arias/

JMO
The bottom line is it takes 2 to tango. If Jodi was Travis' little secret, then surely Travis was Jodi's little secret.

Neither of which has anything to do with the fact we have seen no evidence of any physical abuse by Travis towards Jodi, other than what she claims.
And I for one cannot believe her because all other testimony indicates she is lying to me.

 

[AlanCFA]

It's very telling that the defense has not had Jodi examined by a top notch psychiatrist. Or at least if they have they haven't called one to testify in the case in chief. Perhaps in the penalty phase when jurors might see severe mental illness as a mitigating factor and spare her life?

You might be right. I was strongly for the death penalty earlier in this case. But in recent weeks, it has become obvious that she has had mental problems for many years. Now, I am less inclined to the DP and a bit more open to LWOP.

I still think the DP is justified, but LWOP would not bother me as much as it would have a few weeks ago.

 

[Nancy_Drew]

Wha???? They test all schoolteachers and keep a record of their collective IQs? Who knew? :what:
I had no idea that schoolteachers were on the "not very high" scale of IQs. Wow, you learn something every day. I'm so disappointed that all those wonderful, intelligent teachers I know aren't really geniuses. Not a one of them. Shucks. My husband, too. Nope, not a genius among them. Just barely above average. Good thing none of them ever wanted to be a lawyer or doctor or rocket scientist. (Just wanted to teach people how to be lawyers, doctors, and rocket scientists. With their barely adequate IQs.)

Actually, I thought that sounded funny too... But a score of 120 is by no means "not very high"... Actually, with a score of "120" teachers are in the "very superior intelligence category" which is second from the top...which probably means there are quite a few that roll right on into the next level, being "Genius"!

Average IQ score

Category

Over 140: Genius / near genius

120 – 140: Very superior intelligence

110 – 119: Superior intelligence

90 – 109: Average / normal intelligence

80 – 89: Low average

70 – 79: Borderline

Under 70: Extremely low

http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq04.htm

 

[mattfz]

I am an active Mormon, and my husband is currently a bishop. No way good Mormons would EVER consider Travis' sex life or potential poor treatment in a relationship (so SHE says) as an excuse for what she did to him. In my opinion everything I've heard about him: the good, the bad, and the gettin freaky, makes him more human to me, and makes me so sad to think about what ultimately happened to him. Mormons are actually not judgmental about past mistakes because we have a testimony in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and believe a person can move past a bad past and do better. I think Travis was trying to do that. What a Mormon would NOT look fondly at is professing momon beliefs and continuing to lie their pants off every time they open their mouth.

Thank you for your personal insight as an active Mormon. I do have a hypothetical question.

I do know that the Mormon faith outlines 3 "degrees of glory" -- the resting places after death. Based on his conduct and standing in the church, let's assume that Travis died of natural causes instead of being brutally murdered by JA. What Kingdom would be be assigned to?

 

[paperwing]

Why not paperwing? I mean this witness alone talked about violence toward animals etc. didn't she? As signs of an abuser? Why wouldn't it be rebuttal evidence? Or at least in closings?

I thought I heard the THs (or perhaps Beth Karas, who I actually respect and listen to) mention that the 'unseen' interrogation tapes wouldn't get in, especially the most meaningful segments - "too prejudicial" against the defendant :furious: - the singing, headstand, etc., and I thought the dog story, too.

I certainly hope I'm wrong... I'm amazed by all the things the jury doesn't get to see/hear - and witnesses that will never testify. Drives me nuts.

Doesn't rebuttal have to argue against matters already in the case? Well, Samuels did mention that JA kicked her mother 'once' (guessing she was abusive to her for a long time - physically and psychologically), so maybe that opened the door.

Sounds to me like JA has been physically violent to others (includes dogs/all creatures) for a long time. I'd be surprised if she wasn't physically abusive to Travis (we know about the psych abuse), and the attacker instigator in any altercation that may have transpired. She just twists the facts when she's not making them up completely.

Bottom line: I trust JM to introduce the right things for rebuttal - and to give a killer closing argument. Thank goodness.

 

[MrsProsecutor]

What is his fate? Will he have a good outcome in heavan?

Jesus loves all of his children, especially children who had painful childhoods. As a Mormon, I believe that our Heavenly Father is so merciful and kind, and makes a way for all of his children to come home to him. Travis would not be an exception to that. I absolutely believe he would have, as you say, a good outcome in Heaven. No doubt.

Ironically, someone who lied to get baptized, lied about having a testimony for their Own selfish wicked purposes, and murdered and LIED about it would not be faring too good. Lying is what Satan is best at and is his best tool. Also murdering is THE WORST SIN ever, because it robs someone of the best gift God gave us, our Agency. Uh oh, Jodi.

 

[pferrin]

If travis were Catholic would she have converted to Catholic faith. If Buddhist ..would she have become Buddhist. She wanted the lifestyle he could give her. She would do whatever it took to hook him. She wanted the Money ..and blah blah. Imo

 

[ktaran]

Every time ALV relates to the jury one of her anecdotes about how her other 'patients' did the same things Jodi did in her relationship with Travis I yell at the screen, "But did they stab their significant other 27 times and shot him in the head???" (Maybe Juan will ask her for me.):twocents:

I have been doing the same. Today when she mentioned all of those names of girls that he had been in deceiving, I yelled out ... and not one of the stabbed or shot him.

 

[LaneGirl]

Jesus loves all of his children, especially children who had painful childhoods. As a Mormon, I believe that our Heavenly Father is so merciful and kind, and makes a way for all of his children to come home to him. Travis would not be an exception to that. I absolutely believe he would have, as you say, a good outcome in Heaven. No doubt.

Ironically, someone who lied to get baptized, lied about having a testimony for their Own selfish wicked purposes, and murdered and LIED about it would not be faring too good. Lying is what Satan is best at and is his best tool. Also murdering is THE WORST SIN ever, because it robs someone of the best gift God gave us, our Agency. Uh oh, Jodi.

BBM- I'm interested in knowing tho if he will have the best outcome according to your faith. I'm confused about the different levels of heaven and what qualifies one to the ultimate level?

 

[illusionld]

I was cleaning and this is what I found

 

[jabberwocky]

I wanted to like ALV, I reallly did, but I just can't believe she is testifying to abuse of Jodi by Travis and in such an oblique way! Through Jodi's interview with her, Jodi's journals and a few emails and the jury doesn't even get to SEE those emails! Un-effin-believable!

I actually feel BETRAYED by ALV. She is a mental health professional, someone who should be trusted by her clients, someone who should help them work through their issues and help guide them to healthier behavior. If you are seeing a shrink, you NEED to trust that shrink! I can see myself pouring my heart out to her and believing what she says to me. I would try to follow her advice because she knows what's best. I would TRUST her. If I were a client of hers and then I saw her testifying in this trial, I would be horrified! I would feel as if either a) she doesn't know what she's talking about (and therefore is unqualified to help ME), or b) she's a sellout who would twist ANYTHING for the right price and probably doesn't CARE about helping ME (and might sell out ME).

Any mental health professional that would defend a psychopath in a murder trial has lost all credibility in my eyes! MOO

 

[mattfz]

I am an active Mormon, and my husband is currently a bishop. No way good Mormons would EVER consider Travis' sex life or potential poor treatment in a relationship (so SHE says) as an excuse for what she did to him. In my opinion everything I've heard about him: the good, the bad, and the gettin freaky, makes him more human to me, and makes me so sad to think about what ultimately happened to him. Mormons are actually not judgmental about past mistakes because we have a testimony in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and believe a person can move past a bad past and do better. I think Travis was trying to do that. What a Mormon would NOT look fondly at is professing momon beliefs and continuing to lie their pants off every time they open their mouth.

Thank you for your personal insight as an active Mormon. I do have a hypothetical question.

I do know that the Mormon faith outlines 3 "degrees of glory" -- the resting places after death. Based on his conduct and standing in the church the day his life was taken, what Kingdom would he be assigned to?

 

[Hatfield]

A few weeks ago I saw a report on TV about how it's nearly impossible to get help for the truly mentally disturbed. It's VERY, VERY expensive and insurance fights the family all the way. Plus there are very few top notch facilities, but there are many places to simply "warehouse" disturbed individuals.

In the past couple of weeks we've seen the quality of some that are passing themselves off as "therapists". People like Jodi eat them up and spit them out while the family goes broke trying to get them help. :twocents:

Good points.

I have had some terrible experiences with health insurance companies. We pay our premiums for years, and then when you finally try to use valid services, they always seem to try to reject the claims or reject the services you need. It is quite the racket. Very sad.

Automobile and home owners insurance is not much better IMO. Just money making rackets IMO.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

I just think we've not heard the last of Jodi's kicking issues--her mother and her dog.

I agree...I heard too many stories from JA how "She" was kicked when she was the one that did it - She KICKED HER OWN MOTHER !!! For no reason...I don't know if this started with the dog as a Freshman in HS or if she started kicking her Mother before that.