trial day 41: the defense continues its case in chief #120

[ILikeToBendPages]

Poor Jodi graveled and begged to get back in Travis's good graces.

 

[gngr~snap]

Guess he should have just Fed Ex the picture to her... I am sorry he engaged her or even bothered to txt her.

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[camcneishg]

that's twice now that ALC has looked at the clock....

 

[luvmygarden]

So please tell me AVL...

Where does stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing,
stabbing, stabbing, and slashing to decapitation and then shooting a bullet into the brain of an individual fall in your scale?

Please expert, inform us.

Oh Boy can't wait for Juan to get to that part and see what ALV responds to that episode.

 

[NashBridges2]

getting me through this BS testimony is knowing that once the walmart lady testifies she didn't return the 3rd gas can and the Tesero employee confirms all 3 purchases were for gas, is that the jury will no longer believe one bloody word that came out of Jodi's mouth.

Which means they then can't trust one word out of Dr Samuels mouth or Alyces mouth, since they based their testimony on Jodi's BS.

 

[Wishbone]

Ok, enough of the groundwork for the emotional abuse and all the "physical violence" by TA against JA has been laid....can we now get to June 4?

 

[KathrynL]

This witness is so not with reality about women. I'm 55 and I remember girls having no problem with hitting, kicking and physical fighting - back in the 70s. But she says we are all wilting flowers who don't want to hit anyone? FFS make it stop.

 

[SallyLu]

The gist - that's be a first.

 

[marlap]

This is really unfair. The fact that Sandi did not GET psychiatric help for Jodi does not mean she did not TRY to get help for her. Here is a sample of responses from my own experiences:

Me: I desperately need help for my son who says he wants to hurt people. He has been violent his whole life. He thinks he has aids and wants to die.

Responses:

Do you have insurance?
Has he actually done anything?
Can you have him call us?
Call your family doctor.
Get a restraining order
Call the police.
Call right after an incident
How can you be sure he did this?
You have no proof and he denies it?
He has to admit it and ask for help
The victim also denies it?
I'm sorry ma'am we don't do that, let me refer you...
He has to come through the emergency room
We only provide charity after the incident
We only hold people for 24 hours, 3 days, 30 days
We have a DV/AA/NA support group

Whether the person is an adult or child, they have to be willing to describe their behavior truthfully and sincerely seek help. This is why I say it wouldn't matter even if she had made Jodi sit in front of a professional. She would have lied.

I have worked for a pediatric neurological psychologist doing evaluations of disturbed children. The evaluation itself is almost $1,000 and (rich) people would come from all over the country to have their troubled children diagnosed. The doctor would diagnose using games and tests which are designed to cross check each other - each child took almost ten tests, including one observing the child's interaction with the doctor's dogs.

My son was accurately diagnosed at significant expense in the seventies and I told you having a diagnosis does not mean you have "help". When they tell you your child is the "worst" they have seen and you are talking to a world-famous child psychiatrist and the next thing out of his mouth is "why don't you remarry," you realize they can't really help you. Your child is a subject, a data element, a curiosity, a case study.

When my son grew into adolescence, he considered it a form of intellectual sparring to go head to head with me in front of a school counselor, social worker, psychiatrist/etc and see who would be believed. To my absolute fury, these professionals would turn to me and say things like, "Your son says you are the one who threw the rock at his little brother. He says you have a drinking problem/drug problem/sex problem/OCD problem, etc. Is this true?" One time he even convinced an intake worker at a rehab facility that I was the one who should be admitted.

When we got home he would regale his brother with the stories of how he got the counselor to believe that his celibate, pregnant, temperate non-smoking, non-coffee-drinking Mormon mother was actually an alcoholic weed smoker with a cleanliness fetish. Of course this was only if he got a chance to talk to them first.

He fooled Food Stamp workers, Mormon bishops, psychiatrists, case workers, and lawyers because he had a lifetime of experience in mimicking emotions and he had an IQ over 150. He could not fool judges and anyone in the penal system.

A sociopathic teenager can tell a lie more effectively than you can tell the truth. I have no doubt in my mind that Ms. Arias threatened her mother that if she ever called in any professional help, she would make sure that she--Sandi--would be the one evaluated for involuntary commitment to a mental institution. And with her high-falutin words and her belief in her natural intellectual superiority (despite being a high school dropout), I think her threats might give her mother pause.

I could be wrong, but I think her reaction to her daughter's crime was disbelief and horror but not surprise. That would be my reaction should my son have committed a heinous murder. I think Jodi has verbally and physically abused Sandi for years, taking advantage of her mother's love for her to use and abuse her. She clearly has nothing but contempt for her for accepting this abuse.

Who KICKS a mother who has come to help her move???

What you see in court that appears to be stoicism or coldness or blunted affect and even the rudeness towards Travis' family is not what it seems.
I think it is the wilted, defeated affect of a lifelong victim--she is afraid of her daughter.

That is heartbreaking...I'm so sorry for what you've been through.

(((Anagrammy)))

Jodi, and no one else, is to blame for Travis's murder.

I have faith in Juan and the jury!

 

[TexMex]

This is really unfair. The fact that Sandi did not GET psychiatric help for Jodi does not mean she did not TRY to get help for her. Here is a sample of responses from my own experiences:

Me: I desperately need help for my son who says he wants to hurt people. He has been violent his whole life. He thinks he has aids and wants to die.

Responses:

Do you have insurance?
Has he actually done anything?
Can you have him call us?
Call your family doctor.
Get a restraining order
Call the police.
Call right after an incident
How can you be sure he did this?
You have no proof and he denies it?
He has to admit it and ask for help
The victim also denies it?
I'm sorry ma'am we don't do that, let me refer you...
He has to come through the emergency room
We only provide charity after the incident
We only hold people for 24 hours, 3 days, 30 days
We have a DV/AA/NA support group

Whether the person is an adult or child, they have to be willing to describe their behavior truthfully and sincerely seek help. This is why I say it wouldn't matter even if she had made Jodi sit in front of a professional. She would have lied.

I have worked for a pediatric neurological psychologist doing evaluations of disturbed children. The evaluation itself is almost $1,000 and (rich) people would come from all over the country to have their troubled children diagnosed. The doctor would diagnose using games and tests which are designed to cross check each other - each child took almost ten tests, including one observing the child's interaction with the doctor's dogs.

My son was accurately diagnosed at significant expense in the seventies and I told you having a diagnosis does not mean you have "help". When they tell you your child is the "worst" they have seen and you are talking to a world-famous child psychiatrist and the next thing out of his mouth is "why don't you remarry," you realize they can't really help you. Your child is a subject, a data element, a curiosity, a case study.

When my son grew into adolescence, he considered it a form of intellectual sparring to go head to head with me in front of a school counselor, social worker, psychiatrist/etc and see who would be believed. To my absolute fury, these professionals would turn to me and say things like, "Your son says you are the one who threw the rock at his little brother. He says you have a drinking problem/drug problem/sex problem/OCD problem, etc. Is this true?" One time he even convinced an intake worker at a rehab facility that I was the one who should be admitted.

When we got home he would regale his brother with the stories of how he got the counselor to believe that his celibate, pregnant, temperate non-smoking, non-coffee-drinking Mormon mother was actually an alcoholic weed smoker with a cleanliness fetish. Of course this was only if he got a chance to talk to them first.

He fooled Food Stamp workers, Mormon bishops, psychiatrists, case workers, and lawyers because he had a lifetime of experience in mimicking emotions and he had an IQ over 150. He could not fool judges and anyone in the penal system.

A sociopathic teenager can tell a lie more effectively than you can tell the truth. I have no doubt in my mind that Ms. Arias threatened her mother that if she ever called in any professional help, she would make sure that she--Sandi--would be the one evaluated for involuntary commitment to a mental institution. And with her high-falutin words and her belief in her natural intellectual superiority (despite being a high school dropout), I think her threats might give her mother pause.

I could be wrong, but I think her reaction to her daughter's crime was disbelief and horror but not surprise. That would be my reaction should my son have committed a heinous murder. I think Jodi has verbally and physically abused Sandi for years, taking advantage of her mother's love for her to use and abuse her. She clearly has nothing but contempt for her for accepting this abuse.

Who KICKS a mother who has come to help her move???

What you see in court that appears to be stoicism or coldness or blunted affect and even the rudeness towards Travis' family is not what it seems.
I think it is the wilted, defeated affect of a lifelong victim--she is afraid of her daughter.

I agree the parents were terrified of Jodi's wrath.

As a Morman, was there any counseling other than with a Bishop, available for a woman Jodi's age whose parents and friends seemed to think needed to get help with psychiatric issues? Tia

 

[kaRN]

JA said this email was over a picture. Riiiight.

 

[DairyGirl]

I do not know why the judge is allowing all this hearsay and assumptions. Travis is not there to defend himself or clarify why he wrote what he did in his journals.
Can we just stipulate that Travis had his own issues, too, and that he probably did cheat on women and was a womanizer and maybe not very nice to them? No matter what, he did not drive hundreds of miles to JA's own home and slaughter her. He is the victim, remember? His behavior and character have no bearing on her actions whatsoever. He is not on trial, she is.

 

[LynnM]

This is really unfair. The fact that Sandi did not GET psychiatric help for Jodi does not mean she did not TRY to get help for her. Here is a sample of responses from my own experiences:

Me: I desperately need help for my son who says he wants to hurt people. He has been violent his whole life. He thinks he has aids and wants to die.

Responses:

Do you have insurance?
Has he actually done anything?
Can you have him call us?
Call your family doctor.
Get a restraining order
Call the police.
Call right after an incident
How can you be sure he did this?
You have no proof and he denies it?
He has to admit it and ask for help
The victim also denies it?
I'm sorry ma'am we don't do that, let me refer you...
He has to come through the emergency room
We only provide charity after the incident
We only hold people for 24 hours, 3 days, 30 days
We have a DV/AA/NA support group

Whether the person is an adult or child, they have to be willing to describe their behavior truthfully and sincerely seek help. This is why I say it wouldn't matter even if she had made Jodi sit in front of a professional. She would have lied.

I have worked for a pediatric neurological psychologist doing evaluations of disturbed children. The evaluation itself is almost $1,000 and (rich) people would come from all over the country to have their troubled children diagnosed. The doctor would diagnose using games and tests which are designed to cross check each other - each child took almost ten tests, including one observing the child's interaction with the doctor's dogs.

My son was accurately diagnosed at significant expense in the seventies and I told you having a diagnosis does not mean you have "help". When they tell you your child is the "worst" they have seen and you are talking to a world-famous child psychiatrist and the next thing out of his mouth is "why don't you remarry," you realize they can't really help you. Your child is a subject, a data element, a curiosity, a case study.

When my son grew into adolescence, he considered it a form of intellectual sparring to go head to head with me in front of a school counselor, social worker, psychiatrist/etc and see who would be believed. To my absolute fury, these professionals would turn to me and say things like, "Your son says you are the one who threw the rock at his little brother. He says you have a drinking problem/drug problem/sex problem/OCD problem, etc. Is this true?" One time he even convinced an intake worker at a rehab facility that I was the one who should be admitted.

When we got home he would regale his brother with the stories of how he got the counselor to believe that his celibate, pregnant, temperate non-smoking, non-coffee-drinking Mormon mother was actually an alcoholic weed smoker with a cleanliness fetish. Of course this was only if he got a chance to talk to them first.

He fooled Food Stamp workers, Mormon bishops, psychiatrists, case workers, and lawyers because he had a lifetime of experience in mimicking emotions and he had an IQ over 150. He could not fool judges and anyone in the penal system.

A sociopathic teenager can tell a lie more effectively than you can tell the truth. I have no doubt in my mind that Ms. Arias threatened her mother that if she ever called in any professional help, she would make sure that she--Sandi--would be the one evaluated for involuntary commitment to a mental institution. And with her high-falutin words and her belief in her natural intellectual superiority (despite being a high school dropout), I think her threats might give her mother pause.

I could be wrong, but I think her reaction to her daughter's crime was disbelief and horror but not surprise. That would be my reaction should my son have committed a heinous murder. I think Jodi has verbally and physically abused Sandi for years, taking advantage of her mother's love for her to use and abuse her. She clearly has nothing but contempt for her for accepting this abuse.

Who KICKS a mother who has come to help her move???

What you see in court that appears to be stoicism or coldness or blunted affect and even the rudeness towards Travis' family is not what it seems.
I think it is the wilted, defeated affect of a lifelong victim--she is afraid of her daughter.

Yes, this mirrors the experience of my friend and her husband who have a sociopathic daughter. They role modeled good behavior but it didn't help. They went to multiple therapists. It didn't help. They made sure there were consequences for bad behavior. It didn't help. Despite their daughter's many, many arrests, drug use, moving from one man's home to another, and her neglect of his physical and dental health, they were never able to get custody of their grandchild, not until their daughter didn't want the child anymore. She lied so well CPS never even investigated. It's why I have empathy for Jodi's parents.

And we have no idea why Jodi's mother and aunt are smiling from time to time. The judicial resolution of this murder has been going on for years now and the trial for months. Life goes on. Maybe the aunt has been relating amusing stories about her grandchildren. We have no idea. If we saw Travis's family occasionally smiling while they talked to one another, we'd be pleased that they were having a happy moment, not that they disrespected Travis.

 

[Nezumi]

Donavan in a big whisper fest with the woman to her left. ?

 

[magpie]

I'm soooo zoning out today. ALV needs to get finished up before lunch. :thud:

This text messaging all sounds so "high school" to me. :twocents: Maybe I'm just too old, don't understand the value of this back and forth text messaging.

Texts do not show any inflection like a real voice phone call would. IMHO too many arguments can be caused by texting instead of making a phone call. You need to hear the voice inflection instead of the written word that can easily be taken many different ways sometimes, especially during what I call a "texting war".

 

[corundogs]

We weren't having this many lagging issues when Jodi was on the stand.

Is there another trial that is bogging down the site, too? Something else going on?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

OMG ... there was Donovan talking away with the woman sitting next to her ...

WHY is this allowed -- there is a witness on the stand testifying ...

Have respect !

:furious:

 

[TXProfessional]

Hi all, maybe this information will help on the stalking issue. I expect the state's Psychologist/Dr expert witness to present this information. I'm new here so if this is the wrong place to post please let me know.

Stalkers fall into two categories of motivation according to forensic psychologists: love obsession and simple obsession. People who stalk celebrities fall into the first category. Although they have no relationship with their target, they are convinced that they can make the celebrity love them. When their victim doesn't "follow the script," they may use threats, intimidation or violence to make their obsession "come true."

…”simple obsession can be the most dangerous. This type stalker may or may not have a psychological disorder, but all have been found to have personality disorders, according to the FBI Center for Crime Analysis. They are generally above average in intelligence, but are socially maladjusted, emotionally immature and suffer from feelings of powerlessness, jealousy and low self-esteem, FBI studies show. They use their controlling relationship to feel more powerful.

The most common harrassment/stalker cases dealt with are those of simple obsession: a relationship or marriage goes sour and the jilted person is unable to accept it. The personality problems are what can make this type of stalker dangerous. The reason they are so dangerous is that they stalk out of anger, hurt and revenge. They may be looking for a way to justify their rage. The simple obsessive stalker is likely to develop the idea, "If I can't have you, then nobody else will either.” source---http://www.aardvarc.org

 

[Katana]

It seems they skipped over Jodi's texts until the end of that conversation/fight and only mentions the text when she apologizes. I wonder if Jodi's texts were left out on purpose because they only went on about Travis' texts.

 

[josie1986]

Argh I keep getting booted off here

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