trial day 41: the defense continues its case in chief #122

[pufnstuf]

I'm glad that you're giving voice to an unpopular opinion. I agree with you that the text messages, emails, etc. show evidence of emotional and verbal abuse toward Jodi. Even if Travis had a good reason to be angry with her, he was very ready and able to be cruel. His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger. The words he wrote were meant to not only to reject her--which was his right--but to annihilate her completely.

Why is this so hard to accept, even with the proof in black and white? Why do people seem to think that acknowledging the truth of Travis' emotional violence automatically means excusing Jodi's exteme violence? It doesn't and it won't. She killed a man, and it doesn't look at all like she did it in self defense. But, if Jodi is a sick woman who got sicker because of this relationship, this is something that has to be heard. The truth still matters. Hatred for the liar, the killer, however natural that may be, can't negate the evidence. And, yes, even the fact that she did the worst thing possible can't negate the evidence. It is a deliberate act of intellectual dishonesty to allow hatred to blot out facts.

Take Jodi out of the equation, and what we're left with here is a lot of people saying that the only "real" abuse there is is the kind that leaves physical marks; the rest, though equally damaging, is being minimized or denied. People say that Jodi herself is insulting victims of intimate partner violence, but I see the insult happening right here, on these boards.

No one is minimizing emotional abuse, verbal abuse, or any other kind of abuse. Most believe that Travis' angry words toward Jodi were in backlash to the constant craziness to which Jodi subjected him.

I believe that. I believe that TRAVIS was the victim. If he's to be impugned for anything, it's for staying in a relationship too long, allowing that relationship to be sexual, far after he knew what kind of psychopath Jodi was.

You can't take Jodi out of the equation... she is the only reason the equation was written.

 

[BritsKate]

My last little tidbit for the morning...how'd it get to be 5am! :what:

I've never heard of an abuse survivor, freshly out of an abusive relationship, go and purchase a weapon to go on a camping trip, in a presumably remote location, with a bunch of random people the same gender as their abuser they barely know, while they were the lone of their own sex.

It defies every little bit of logic I've got because it is extremely unusual.

JMO

 

[BeachGirlFromPA]

BBM: You entirely misinterpreted the Text. He called her an evil sociopath 3-holed wonder, *advertiser censored*, *advertiser censored* etc...right on target!

No, Molly is referencing a time when TA called himself "a bit of sociopath", OMG. If anyone ever listened to the things that have been said here in my house, on the phone, they'd get a net! He was clearly not being serious, it was a JOKE. And it wouldn't have any weight had JA not butchered him and we could hear/read his words.
To pull things so out of context is very unfair. But that's how the DT rolls.
What I can't get out of my mind is this..... I know that under the law JA deserves a defense, but how can the DT actually deal with their own conscience to defend her, especially the way they are doing it?
I would be sick to my soul if I was defending her. Totally sick.

 

[Truth Detector]

All I can say to this statement right now is, wow that is ironic.

Jodi and her crooked team have most certainly bullied the truth and the victim... and in case anybody is unclear about who the victim is... his name is Travis.

Jodi and her team aren't even in the same zip code with the truth.

 

[Sleuth5]

I finally reached a point that I am watching Juan's cross of this 'expert' DV witness. I'm only into the first 5 minutes or so, but Juan is already nailing her on her credentials, or lack thereof. She only has a masters degree, no PhD. I can't believe it, she's not even qualified to administer or interpret testing. Which, IMO, makes her a non-expert witness. Whatever the case, she seems to be having a difficult time conceding the facts of the limitations of her 'expertise'. Which obviously includes less training than a PhD requires, approximately two more years, versus a masters. Yet she then responds to Juan claiming she actually has more training than a PhD. :what: I would like to hear what someone has to say, who has endured the grueling requirements involved with obtaining their PhD.

So I no longer wonder why or how the DT got this woman to do what she's doing. She is cheap, and when I say that I don't mean in cost, but rather that she has no qualms in selling herself. For money, pride, notoriety. I seriously doubt this woman could cut the mustard in any PhD program, which is why she never obtained it. There's no sin or shame in that. But that she's selling her soul and putting on this sham of a testimony, that's where the sin and the shame come in, to herself and to her profession, imo.

Well, I survived the PhD process. In fairness, however, I don't evaluate people on the basis of credentials alone. I have been willing to give her the benefit of her experience and judgment in her field, but have been, like many of you, disappointed with her obvious bias. Relying upon the word of someone she knows to be a very adept liar without a consciously skeptical approach does not inspire confidence.

As I said, I do not consider credentials to be the measure of anyone. However, if you are going to get snippy with someone of JM's caliber, I think you're asking for him to call you on your shortcomings. I do not believe that her colleagues -- particularly practicing Psychologists specializing in the field -- appreciate her rather fast and loose methodology. They know very well that many hold skeptical views of the value of psychology and psychiatry, dependent as it is on subjective analysis. For that reason alone, the quality and integrity of its practitioners and advocates is of paramount importance. Anytime someone appears to reinforce the criticisms of those who argue that "anyone can be made to fit a particular diagnosis," they have done a singular disservice to the profession and potentially caused irreparable harm to someone who might otherwise benefit from genuinely competent help.

I can't speak for those professionals, as that is not my field. However, I can certainly understand the genuine chagrin with which they must be observing this woman and her testimony. I suppose most of them are likely to simply say, "well, she doesn't have the credentials, after all -- and it's not as though she claimed she did." Despite that, damage is done, and at least in my opinion, mostly because of the loss of confidence in a legitimate field of study and treatment.

:cow:

 

[SmoothOperator]

Because most abused women do not recognize the extreme danger they are in, even if they voice it. My friend made me executor of her will. On some level she knew she was in danger. I begged her not to go back to her home state where he was. She went back. Two months later she was dead.

IMO

But guess what?..not only is Jodi not dead, nor was Jodi ever physically threatened, much less a finger laid on her.. instead the victim who testimony has very much established was stalked by Jodi, his gurlfriends stalked as well, along with extreme volatile, violent outbursts including multiple times slashing every tire on vehicles of not just her so called threat, Travis, but slashijng tires of women he was dating A YEAR AFTER he and Jodi had been broken up..along with volatile, crazy ranting emails sent to the girls who NOT JUST TRAVIS, THE BIG BAD ABUSER, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY A CLEAR ESTABLISHED FACTUAL PATTERN OF JODI LITERALLY PHYSICALLY HUNTING DOWN AND CONFRONTING WOMEN WHO HER FORMER, NO LONGER WITH,EX-BFS WERE DATING!..long before Travis had the ill fate of crossing her path..long before that Jodi was an aggressive threatening force to anything or anyone who got in her way.

AND much the same pattern of Jodi's aggressive, zero boundaries, nor even remote inkling of appropriate behaviors went about executing an extremely out of her way, plotted, schemed, and planned to get her *advertiser censored* to the city where Travis resided many hours away... all of this in order to literally slaughter a man in such a vicious, frenzied, literal overkill to such a degree that she would have successfully murdered him more than 3 times over..

she hunted him down and she killed him just as a predatory animal kills the prey for which they set their sights on..

this woman does not and literally could not contort her way into one single, solitary valid charecteristic consistent with a victim of anything, much less a victim of abuse at the hands of a man who had broken up with her, avoided the hell out of her, called her every name in the book he could possibly come up with to let her know he did not, nor ever had any desire or intention on having a relationship with her from the point they had split a year prior..

but who was it that did end up dead and not just dead but literally slaughtered in the most up close and personal way with sadistic overkill?


not Jodi..nope, in fact Jodi was the one that went out her way in every single way possible to stalk, hunt down, focus in on her prey, and just like a predatory animal literally went into Travis most personal space, trapped by 3 stall walls as she stood in the only exit available him with deadly weapons and you better damn well believe deadly intent.. she tracked down her prey and slaughtered him..

she has nothing even remotely similar to even a single trait of an abused victim..she is full predator and she takes full effing delight to this day in continuing to stab the proverbial knife into anyone at all who loves and cares about Travis..she anihilated him physically AND she's attempted to anihilate his memory and even the precious memories his loved ones are left with in place of Travis..

she and IMO her full defense sham are every bit of a full mockery to victims and what victims endure at the hands of their abusers..Jodi cannot remask that which she fully unmasked and unleashed on Travis..and I, for one am extremely thankful that one thing she can not do is hide behind the guise of a human being anymore.. what she unleashed that day on Travis prevents that mask from ever covering up the evil that is Jodi Arias!

 

[Zuri]

If I had a murdered love one, I would not want JM in the courtroom.

There is a big difference between being passionate about something and acting as he does....and that is JMO

Well I do. I hope you never ever have to go through what those of us have to go through. I would want JM every single day/year/century in that courtroom speaking for me and my family. Say what you will. Until you have walked in my shoes, you may think differently..

 

[seguek9]

Did I hear somewhere that the defense has another witness after Alyce? Please tell me that isn't true. Also, does anyone know the schedule for next week? Thank you!

Its just one of those quickie deals like jeanC was...for the DT motion blab blab about the media ...wont take but 5 minutes.

:cow:

 

[thefragile7393]

I'm finding all this talk that ALV was able to know exactly who and what Travis was just based on texts and emails a little unnerving.

Over the weekend, me and my sister were having a conversation over FB and she said something in response to a request I had. I flew off the handle and said some pretty nasty things to her, to which her response was, whoa where is this coming from? And I ignored her.

Now, if I'm ever murdered, a shifty defense team and a biased expert could take that exchange and use it against me. Well, she had anger issues, she would fly off the handle for reason, without provocation, she was verbally abusive to her family, etc. etc.

Now without context that would seem reasonable. But what they would fail to mention or know was that that was a result of building anger and resentment toward her for her behavior and her actions toward me. She wasn't innocent here, is my point. I unleashed a tirade similar to Travis', only more profanity-filled. I was livid.

This is the danger of ALV being allowed to use and interpret Travis' texts and emails to characterize him without any context. Without knowing what was happening outside of these correspondences.

Logic says you cannot interpret ANYTHING without knowing the other party involved. Anything else defies logic.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I'm glad that you're giving voice to an unpopular opinion. I agree with you that the text messages, emails, etc. show evidence of emotional and verbal abuse toward Jodi. Even if Travis had a good reason to be angry with her, he was very ready and able to be cruel. His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger. The words he wrote were meant to not only to reject her--which was his right--but to annihilate her completely.

Why is this so hard to accept, even with the proof in black and white? Why do people seem to think that acknowledging the truth of Travis' emotional violence automatically means excusing Jodi's exteme violence? It doesn't and it won't. She killed a man, and it doesn't look at all like she did it in self defense. But, if Jodi is a sick woman who got sicker because of this relationship, this is something that has to be heard. The truth still matters. Hatred for the liar, the killer, however natural that may be, can't negate the evidence. And, yes, even the fact that she did the worst thing possible can't negate the evidence. It is a deliberate act of intellectual dishonesty to allow hatred to blot out facts.

Take Jodi out of the equation, and what we're left with here is a lot of people saying that the only "real" abuse there is is the kind that leaves physical marks; the rest, though equally damaging, is being minimized or denied. People say that Jodi herself is insulting victims of intimate partner violence, but I see the insult happening right here, on these boards.

BBM, explains his words perfectly. She was mindf'ing him all the time with her lies and schemes. She invented people, she made fake texts to him. She sent fake texts from him to people. She spied on him, invaded his privacy in multiple ways, threatened more than one female friend of his, even one he wasn't dating. She slashed his tires, TWICE!

He should have cut off all contact long before the killing, but sometimes it's hard for the abused to do that, as ALV has explained.

 

[Lorelilly]

Oh no... I would want Martinez on my side...
He makes me feel like this:

:twocents::twocents::twocents:

Gloomy...your animals are precious and my blood pressure just fell at least 10 beats a minute. Thank you.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

At the end of the day, while the rest of the courtroom observers left, the brunette and the blonde talked to the mitigation specialist while Nurmi talked to LaViolette.
Then they walked out of the courtroom arm and arm with LaViolette.

This makes me ill. I reiterate that these bumpkins that think they're at the county fair need to be removed from the courtroom...permanently. I think they are purposely trying to be disruptive to the State's case, and I don't understand why there aren't court officials addressing it.

Someone needs to point out all of the ridiculous things going on in this courtroom to the people that should be looking after such things. Seriously, passing notes, coaching witnesses from the sidelines, mitigation specialist courting the defendant in full view of the jury, former felon turned BFF of the defendant derailing this trial, and defense attorneys being openly HOSTILE with the prosecution (pizzy would be a better word), AND lord love us....the endless rounds of "may we approach".

I'm starting to think this trial won't be over before the 4th of July. Or if Nurmi gets back up there.....maybe Labor Day.

 

[wasnt_me]

I'm finding all this talk that ALV was able to know exactly who and what Travis was just based on texts and emails a little unnerving.

Over the weekend, me and my sister were having a conversation over FB and she said something in response to a request I had. I flew off the handle and said some pretty nasty things to her, to which her response was, whoa where is this coming from? And I ignored her.

Now, if I'm ever murdered, a shifty defense team and a biased expert could take that exchange and use it against me. Well, she had anger issues, she would fly off the handle for reason, without provocation, she was verbally abusive to her family, etc. etc.

Now without context that would seem reasonable. But what they would fail to mention or know was that that was a result of building anger and resentment toward her for her behavior and her actions toward me. She wasn't innocent here, is my point. I unleashed a tirade similar to Travis', only more profanity-filled. I was livid.

This is the danger of ALV being allowed to use and interpret Travis' texts and emails to characterize him without any context. Without knowing what was happening outside of these correspondences.

Worse than that, they are using ALV to negate "all the good things" Jodi would say about Travis. So Jodi gets to get on the stand a pretend never to think or utter a bad word about Travis, and the defense lets ALV say all the "bad things" about Travis. Now, Jodi saying she never talks bad about Travis looks like she's just "abused" and "brainwashed."

 

[katydid23]

the courtroom. How many people has Mark put on death row? It's real easy to spout off on the Teevee about what you'd do differently but I don't think Mark, as nice as he seems, could do half the job Juan is doing and has done.

Mark is a lawyer who likes to be on the teevee. Juan is a dedicated prosecutor who isn't trying for media gigs. Juan has an amazing record. Mark is on lots of shows.

I agree. I LOVE Mark, but his trial strategy is sometimes deficient, imo.

One example, was that he thought that Juan should have cut his cross of the killer to a couple of hours in total. he claimed that ALL Juan needed to do was to impeach her on all of her public lies, and then sit down. I strongly disagreed.

The jury might cut her a break on the lies, seeing as how she was trying to protect herself from being arrested for Capital Murder. Who woudn't lie in that situation?

Juan KNEW he needed more than that. And he stuck to it and got a lot more important ammo than just her being a liar. We saw her strong aggressive demeanor, which conflicted with her earlier defense crafted persona of a meek
survivor. We heard her ADMIT that she loved the sex and it was mutual and consensual. And we saw her try to explain the murder while under fire from the prosecutor, and not while being hand held by Nurmi. Much different way to see her try and sell that fabricated scenario.

Mark also advised him to just ignore Dr Samuels and not really do a strong cross. Again, I think Juan proved him wrong. It was very productive to go after Samuels and show what a joke that PTSD diagnosis was. JMO

 

[Truth Detector]

Trusting ALV to identify the real domestic abuser is just like trusting O.J. Simpson to "find the real killer."

 

[Ammonitida]

I'm glad that you're giving voice to an unpopular opinion. I agree with you that the text messages, emails, etc. show evidence of emotional and verbal abuse toward Jodi. Even if Travis had a good reason to be angry with her, he was very ready and able to be cruel. His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger. The words he wrote were meant to not only to reject her--which was his right--but to annihilate her completely.

Why is this so hard to accept, even with the proof in black and white? Why do people seem to think that acknowledging the truth of Travis' emotional violence automatically means excusing Jodi's exteme violence? It doesn't and it won't. She killed a man, and it doesn't look at all like she did it in self defense. But, if Jodi is a sick woman who got sicker because of this relationship, this is something that has to be heard. The truth still matters. Hatred for the liar, the killer, however natural that may be, can't negate the evidence. And, yes, even the fact that she did the worst thing possible can't negate the evidence. It is a deliberate act of intellectual dishonesty to allow hatred to blot out facts.

Take Jodi out of the equation, and what we're left with here is a lot of people saying that the only "real" abuse there is is the kind that leaves physical marks; the rest, though equally damaging, is being minimized or denied. People say that Jodi herself is insulting victims of intimate partner violence, but I see the insult happening right here, on these boards.

"His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger."

I don't agree. For one, we don't have access to the full 16 pages of that IM. You're going on incomplete, cherry picked information. Note how Willcott and Nurmy tried to keep out the "dildo with a heart beat" comment.

 

[TorisMom003]

Some clarification on some things.

1. ALV was the SIXTH DV person the defense tried to hire and have as their witness. ALV testified to this one of her many days on the stand during direct.

2. The Judge DID talk to ALV after court today. I was listening to the court proceedings and made special note of the Judge dismissing the jury then asking the lawyers if there was anything else, to which Juan reminded her that she was to talk to ALV in private. Now, it could have been about ALVs attitude while on the stand OR it could have been about ALV not only approaching Samantha but also speaking to her during one of the court breaks OR it could have been about both.

Hope this helps and clear up any confusion.

 

[Straitfan]

Everyone is different, every situation is different, but in this case, someone aggressive, quick, and with a no BS attitude is necessary. Judging by the sister's expressions, he is going at this exactly how they would hope the prosecutor would.

Well I respectfully disagree, I tend to think it could have been a slam/dunk case, he, IMO, may cause some jurors to question more because of the way he acts. (If I was on that jury, I know he would send "red flags" up to me.) So, guess we will see how it ends, I know I'm ready for it to be over, lol

 

[BeachGirlFromPA]

Her parents should be thanking their lucky stars that she moved out and kept them at a distance.... they could have seen a worse fate. I have wondered if her Mom isn't still afraid of her, or even more afraid now that she knows what she's done. What's that saying...'keep your enemies closer...'? Mom visits her often in jail. And I bet she sighs with relief everytime she sees that razor wire and confined areas. If JA ever walks, Mom and Pop better get to packin and headin outta Dodge.

 

[coup de grace]

OMG I can't get over how much I loved Juan's firey start...
Called out Ms. Alyce on not obtaining her P.H.D.:floorlaugh:
He's really offending her sensibilities
Won't be much longer and I'm predicting he will piss her off so much she will become putty in his hands, after he wears her down!!