trial day 43: the defense continues its case in chief #131

[Mrs G Norris]

ALV should have seen through JA however, just like all the other DV witnesses (assumption) that did so and decided to avoid this trail like the plague.

 

[Schuby]

... and what's with not writing a report????

Seems so odd to me. Maybe one of our lawyers can tell us if this is normal or not but it seems, on the face of it, amateurish.

 

[katydid23]

Old school domestic violence 101 used to preach that anger is the reason for abuse. And LaViolette is a strong proponent for court-ordered anger management as a solution, in part, to domestic violence.

I see abuse as entirely about control with anger being one of many manifestations utilized to establish and maintain control. I am against court-ordered anger management therapies because I believe they have the ability to teach an abuser to adapt and be more covert. Especially true with psychopathic abusers. (Research shows a moderate success rate looking purely at recidivism in arrests. Victims have a much different opinion according to a lot of the same research.)

It seems to me and my 'untrained brain' that LaViolette is using an antiquated notion of the causation of domestic violence itself. Travis expresses anger openly while Jodi is more subtly (raging) passive-aggressive among a whole list of other emotional manipulators very often used by abusers to control their victims. If I were only looking for anger...apart from the crime itself, and precluded any other manifestation as evidence of an abusive relationship, I'm not certain I'd see her as an abuser either.

I'm not defending LaViolette as I do honestly believe she's dangerous in her own way. I think it just hit me why I see black where she sees white and vice versa. The past few decades of research flies in the face of her testimony regardless.

MOO

BBM

I agree and I softened towards her a bit this afternoon once I realized that much of the pertinent info was kept from her by the defense. They kind of hung her out to dry , AND ALSO, as you pointed out, she was from the old school of DV, which was much more cut and dry and gender and anger based. JMO

 

[Texas Lady]

Wow has anybody else noticed that we have not had any ALV untimely "planned" potty breaks in the last 2 days. I think that maybe she got into trouble when the last one she pulled was when she went up to Samantha.

Just thinkin.......

 

[Nosey Parker]

I think I understand what you're saying and really appreciate your response! I'm confident he'll give a brilliant closing and tie everything up nicely, but I'm worried that he's confusing the jury with this approach.

Once the defence have finished messing around he will have his rebuttal. That's where you will find the action you are looking for. :rocker:

 

[Nosey Parker]

Seems so odd to me. Maybe one of our lawyers can tell us if this is normal or not but it seems, on the face of it, amateurish.

or crafty? Nothing for Juan to pin her down on? (she thought).

 

[Steft50]

I'm fairly sure that ALV said the last column in her continuum described female perpetrators... However ALV's view is fairly clear in this article on her site

"Researchers Agree Women May Hit Their Male Partners, But Infrequently 'Batter' Them — Pattern of Coercion Is Seldom Present in Female Aggression
http://www.alycelaviolette.com/Women-Who-Hit-Their-Male-Partners.htm

Alyce LaViolette, 2002
www.AlyceLaViolette.com"

It ends as follows:

Having said that, I will end by quoting Ola Barnett and myself: "There is no research that can say that the cost of women's violence — emotionally, physically, or in regard to property damage — in any way matches the violence perpetrated by men.
"The body of evidence suggests that there should be no argument. Diffusing energy in an ongoing gender war takes away from the critical task of developing effective prevention and intervention strategies." (It Could Happen to Anyone, LaViolette and Barnett, 2000, p. 109)

--
Shocking, well not shocking but you know...

In reading your reply (thank you for replying!) I had a mental flash to an Alaska State Trooper I watched where they were called to a domestic violence house and it turned out the drunk woman beat the crap out of her male partner. His torso was covered in bruises and bite marks. I think we all know it happens.

 

[G&AMom]

Why O why doesn't ALV just say that she believed JA about abuse .. if she was lied to and she believed the lies so what? Join the club! Plenty of people believed Arias in her lifetime. She makes it worse by getting defensive, and she allows Juan to discuss the point for longer which drives it deeper into the minds of the jury.

Well, she's supposed to be an expert, which means she's not supposed to be fooled.

In the real world, experts know they get fooled all the time (as you point out, just like the rest of us). People like these two expert witnesses just have a really hard time admitting it, even to themselves.

 

[gauntlet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9_UWGptuFDw#!

Courtesy of Tawnidilly and the FB group

I know others commented on this. JA in her element

 

[ShadyLady]

It is truly sad that this DV expert only sees women as being victims, and all men either lie or they are the abuser even if they are being stalked by a woman.

No wonder men don't report women stalking them.

:furious:

MOO

And never takes into account emotional abuse of men....

 

[kscornfed]

Here's a case that will curl your hair:

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2015427070_greenberg26m.html

It's about a psychologist who testified in many, many custody cases.

Wow. That is one scary story.

 

[LotusPawprint]

I'm confused about something Juan's doing. He made the point today that the reason Jodi didn't write about her jealousy was because of the law of attraction. Right? Did I miss something and therefore am getting this wrong? Because earlier in the trial the defense said she didn't write about the abuse because of the law of attraction. Yet, Juan said she didn't write about it because it didn't happen.

So Juan's trying to have it both ways and I think that's a big mistake with this jury. Frankly, I'm disappointed in him.

Juan is working with the ever-changing garbage the defense and their 'experts' and JA keep peddling.... Actually I am confused by your question/comment so I don't think I'm responding properly but I don't think he's making a mistake with this, he is rebutting everything they are doing. The case is really quite simple, it's the defense who is trying to muddle the waters. IMO Juan addresses all of the smoke and mirrors when cross examining explaining that they can't have it this way, that way, and every way in between. When he gets to his rebuttal case it's back to his pace (less the obnoxious objections) and he will keep it narrow and focused, getting rid of the smoke and mirrors and tricks the defense has to rely on.

 

[panthera]

ALV should have seen through JA however, just like all the other DV witnesses (assumption) that did so and decided to avoid this trail like the plague.

Perhaps in the future, experts should ask the party wanting them to testify how many other experts have turned them down? That may give the expert an idea how bogus the defense is before they literally make a fool of themselves.

MOO

NG now talking with Kim Goldman.
:rose:

 

[Nosey Parker]

Wow has anybody else noticed that we have not had any ALV untimely "planned" potty breaks in the last 2 days. I think that maybe she got into trouble when the last one she pulled was when she went up to Samantha.

Just thinkin.......

She did ask the judge if she could slip out during one of the lengthy sidebars, and she got the nod.

ETA: I remember now, it was when the jury were out and the sidebar was about the father's short video

 

[katydid23]

I'm confused about something Juan's doing. He made the point today that the reason Jodi didn't write about her jealousy was because of the law of attraction. Right? Did I miss something and therefore am getting this wrong? Because earlier in the trial the defense said she didn't write about the abuse because of the law of attraction. Yet, Juan said she didn't write about it because it didn't happen.

So Juan's trying to have it both ways and I think that's a big mistake with this jury. Frankly, I'm disappointed in him.

I think he can have it both ways.

She did not write about the DV and the Pedophilia because it didn't happen. And he has other corroboration for the fact that it never happened. [ work schedules/texts/ no pictures, med reports/no injuries]

AND, at the same time, she never wrote about being jealous because she did not want evidence of her jealousy in writing.

The reason he asked the DV expert about the 'secret law of attraction' is specific to the DV expert herself. SHE IS THE ONE that used that law of attraction as an excuse for JA not writing about those negatve things. So he turned it around on her and said" you are saying she was not jealous because you never saw anything like that in her words---but if you think she followed the law of attraction, then she would not have done so,correct?'

So I think the jury can follow his train of thought. JMO

 

[KPinMN]

Those new shower pics are nasty.

With the urine etc... this tells me Travis acutally died in the shower?

Thoughts?

If you are talking about the yellow spots in the dried blood, I don't believe that's urine. I believe it's products of decomposition...adipose tissue breaks down to a yellow waxy like substance.

 

[G&AMom]

Seems so odd to me. Maybe one of our lawyers can tell us if this is normal or not but it seems, on the face of it, amateurish.

I think the idea is that if she'd written a report, it would have been made available to the prosecution. And you saw what JM did, just with her notes.

 

[Schuby]

or crafty? Nothing for Juan to pin her down on? (she thought).

Yeah, I thought about that. It could be, but I actually do think she believes what she's saying, but who can know for sure.

 

[Callisto]

I wish JM would have asked something to ALV about if she would have apologized to TA if she were to have interviewed him and the tables were turned in this case. She said she apologized to JA as soon as they met; she claims she apologized because of reading all of the items that were never meant to be read by others/digging up things means to be private. ALV doesn't seem to be concerned about the dead man's remaining dignity in this world or his privacy expectation.

 

[Nezumi]

Those new shower pics are nasty.

With the urine etc... this tells me Travis acutally died in the shower?

Thoughts?

Or, as some have said, that's where the first attack occurs and he may have lost control of his bladder when she stabbed him the heart.