trial day 48: REBUTTAL #147

[MistyM]

Am I just getting too tired or do you have your initials mixed up? JM=Juan Martinez; JW= Jennifer Wilmott

You liked Juan Mrtinez but felt Wilmott came up short, is that what you meant to say?
.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, and WELCOME!

too many Js in this triall!!!

Juan
Jennifer
Janeen
Jodi

 

[Kamille]

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Hi, I agree with you. Judging from the Defense pros' I think its time some step aside and let the young have a go at it. She is refreshing to watch. :seeya:

I bet she'll be just as effective and professional 20 years from now. It's not her age that makes the difference IMO.

 

[Karraster]

And THAT'S how a professional shows compassion! She doesn't insert herself into a client's personal life, prompting a personal, familiar relationship. If your job is to collect data, then you collect data. You don't become personally INVOLVED in a patient's life! That's ABUSIVE.

I see a doctor on a regular basis. We don't sit around and jaw for 44 hours and he doesn't send me presents. He acts like a doctor.

Is that a foreign concept to JW & Co?

Bingo!:rocker:

Exactly why a surgeon would not typically operate on a loved one, objectivity.

 

[Rocco]

Right.

On the issue of popularity I think we already have sufficient evidence based on her last 4? years in jail that she's very good at getting along with other people when she wants to.

It's scary.

She poses no threat physically so the mental game there is over. The other inmates aren't going to LOOK at her and instantly think they need to know if they can beat her or not. She just doesn't present as a threat that way.

I'm not so sure she doesn't pose any physical threat. With all those pens and pencils she has been collecting, would you want her mad at you if you were an inmate? If she gets LWOP, she wouldn't have much to lose if someone irritates her.

 

[Sleuth5]

That is exactly my impression also. If there is even one juror who may feel some sympathy for JA because she is young, they can now look at this doctor, see what she has accomplished, and contrast that with JA.

MOO

Really good point. Hello Kitty! :seeya:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Dr. Drew is not a psychiatrist. He is an internist.

What???? Puh-leeze! Not only is Dr. Dr*w a Psychiatrist, he actually teaches it!

Here you go:

Pinsky is also Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the Keck School of Medicine at the University of Southern California, former Medical Director for the Department of Chemical Dependency Services at Las Encinas Hospital in Pasadena, California,[3] staff member at Huntington Memorial Hospital, and a private practitioner

 

[Lorelilly]

:floorlaugh:

She's probably more than borderline. It's pretty rare to have just one Cluster B disorder and not present symptoms of other mental health diagnoses too.

Carnell thinks she's antisocial/psychopathic in addition to borderline. I agree. And she tips the scales of the MMPI, the often preferred psych test for forensic evaluations, which tests for 10 different scales - depressive, psychopathic, etc. (Using laymen's terms) A score of 65 is considered significant. Jodi scored 65 in 7 of 10 scales. Making comorbidity (or multiple mental health diagnoses) even more likely. I'd missed that testimony, so double thanks Carnell. (DD's 13th birthday is today and I'm busy cake decorating, blowing up balloons, etc.)

Hopefully I explained that okay. :blushing:

She's Borderline Squared.:what:

 

[NanaBeck]

Hey All, I have receved my rights to post and I am so excited, this is a great bunch to discuss our opinions w/o ridicule & that's awesome!!!
I don't care how old this expert is as a matter of fact that may be a benefit. Because of it she much more up to the times in her knowledge, she's not bias which shows by her performing her evaluation of JA by the book seeking the truth not a specific diagnosis, she is not "old fashion" and will not having a problem asking the REAL questions. Besides that hasn't the defense ever heard of young geniouses? This young lady is very smart, level headed, well rounded in the areas she is testifying, and you don't become a Dir of an agency "immediately" afte being licensed unless you have proven yourself worthy. JW & JA are just envious of her and want to try to make her look bad, I think it is a very bad stragedy on their part.

GO JM YOU ROCK!!!!!!

 

[FrayedKnot]

I wasn't comparing cases--- I was comparing relative popularity in prison. I think Jodi will be as well liked in prison by other inmates as Betty was.

Possibly. But I think even inmates will see the CH-asm between GF of 5 months (with booty call for another year) and a spouse who dedicated her life and work to furthering her husband only to have him kick her to the curb and not share the harvest after 20 years of hard work and sacrifice.

 

[WhoaIsMe]

Remember with Samuels and ALV, they passed the witness to Juan with 30 minutes to go and he made mincemeat of them in short order. They should have known King Juan may throw them a curve ball. The whole JA Team is fading fast. I wanna scream WAKE UP but...maybe not

Juan did exactly what they tried to do to him repeatedly :floorlaugh: It's like he was saying 'look, you do it like this kiddo. In just a few hours not days ' *pats head* 'good luck now' :rocker:

 

[MidwestMama]

I know, I know. But a lot of folks he has treated, well, didn't fare so well and he is a TV personality. Not knocking his education...just sayin
I stand corrected.

It is a little unfair to hold those patients who don't do well against him, or any addictions counselor. Addiction relapse rate is very high, even with the BEST of treatment. In addition, because he was well known in the field of addiction (well before he ever had the addiction show), he often gets the "worst" cases - the most desperately in need of saving.

 

[ClosArgs]

Probably, because any other defense would be better than this defense.

Except the ninja defense...lol

 

[Love Never Fails]

Not me! She knew her child had problems at an early age. She should have ehausted every possible avenue to establish stable mental health for
Jodi.

The parents found out she was growing pot on their roof, they called the police and expected them to handle the situation. That should have been treated with loving parents and professionals.

I believe the parents were running several restaurants (and that is very hard work), but Jodi should have been their first priority. She wasn't.

They allowed her to leave home at the tender age of 15 and live with a guy (Bobbie ?) Who does that? What parent DOES THAT!!

I believe Jodie should receive the death penalty. Not only because she physically murdered Travis, but she tried to ruin his reputation and his contribution to society.

If nothing else comes out of this horrible case, I hope that parents that have a truly difficult child (and you would always know it in your heart of hearts), to put aside everything and anything to help and promote your child to reach a stabilization for their mental/emotional health issues.

Okay. Let me explain something to you about parents my age and Jodi's mom.
She called the police on Jodi, not to shrug it off on them but because she wanted to shock Jodi a bit. Good for her. Also, all this terminology and enlightenment wasn't around back then. It is so easy to criticize. But she did probably do all she could. And I have four children, all grown and doing well, but that "tender age of fifteen" crap is just that....crap...when you are dealing with someone born evil! I am thankful to God my children were okay. It was totally Him. But i knew some moms who were just pulling their hair out because one child demanded ALL the attention. There weren't many mental health officials to help back then, there wasnt much talked about in the open and Child protective services wasn't readily available. She likely cries herself to sleep nights wondering how she failed poor Jodi. Jodi was born evil. Period.

 

[Cailin Rua]

I was at work and only caught part of the testimony today. I will probably watch the whole thing tomorrow but out of curiosity can anyone tell me if she discussed narcissism/narcissistic traits at all?

I am sort of worried that the news media will seize on the "borderline" thing and run with it ARE PEOPLE WITH BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER ALL POTENTIAL MURDERERS? :hills: I have had a lot of clients with borderline pd and I really don't suspect any of them of being horrific murderers at this time. :twocents:

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

Something else that struck me today was when the witness said that she interviewed Travis' brother. TA's brother told her that JA had hacked into all of his private online social accounts plus maybe his cellphone (I don't remember the exact words). Witness said that JA was actually Psych saying, "Please don't leave me - I want to know what you are doing - Stay Close to Me". That was powerful IMO.

 

[Lorelilly]

Did anyone catch that Jodi gave the finger to Dr. DeMarte today?

I am watching Croakerqueen Day 48 Part 3 on Youtube. (Had to work all day so am catching up.) It is clear as day but very quick.

Jodi glares at Dr. DeMarte, grabs her glasses and flips her the bird as she is putting them on. Start at about 36:10 and watch carefully. It is right about 36:18.

If you eagle eyes already caught it, just ignore me.:seeya:

Pity all JA has left in her arsenal is to whip out a bony finger and flip it.

 

[Donnareit]

It is my opinion that the Jurors respect this witness. I learned some new things thru her testimony today about JA and I'm sure the Jurors did too. I also heard her say that she learned by Dick's report or notes that JA told him that "JODI GOT RID OF BOTH OF THE WEAPONS". I didn't watch the entire trial, but I don't remember that part. I remember JA saying she threw the gun into the desert, but I don't recall the knife riddance...Maybe the dishwasher but she was in that fog that got totally burned today. This witness read from JA's words that JA kicked holes in walls and broke windows out of anger. First time I've heard of that. What else did we learn today?

I think the gun went over Hoover Dam, and the knife is hidden someplace. I just have a terrible feeling that Jodi would want to keep that knife as a momento. She threw the dishwasher story in there as a diversion. Since she couldn't be sure they even found anything in the dishwasher, she added the "maybe I put it in" to cover her bases. If they found a knife in there, she wouldn't have to worry about them continuing to look for her real knife. :moo:

 

[AnonymousD]

I'm catching up from today. I listened earlier during my lunch break on HLN and I was so impressed with Dr. D.

Now that I'm up to after the lunch break.....holy cow. D @ m n she's good. So professional. I can't imagine her professional career not skyrocketing after her testimony.

 

[MidwestMama]

Of course she sold them to HLN, which is why "NG EXCLUSIVE" is stamped all over them. I guess her "friend" thought she'd better sell them while the market was hot. I personally find this practice revolting (and all of the so called "news" outlets do it). And this "friend" told how JA was so poor that the friend's dad paid for her dress and travel to the wedding, and JA "suprised" her, then went on to say that JA had so kindly offered to do all the photography for the wedding. I wonder why Ms. Former Prosecutor didn't pick up on that little inconsistency?

I am a photographer. It is impossible to be IN the wedding and also do a complete job being the photographer. If JA did that I can guarantee she missed a LOT of great shots 1)because she should be in some of them (wedding party, etc) and 2) the best shots are often the shots you catch candidly which would be difficult being IN the wedding party. IE: how can you take photos during the toasts etc if you are supposed to be at the head table? Either you miss the shots or there is a gaping hole in the photo where you should be sitting.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

I think JW tried to trap her with semantics. "Compassion" means deep sympathy and sorrow for the pain of another person. And connected to that is the need to alleviate that sorrow and suffering. Tricky, tricky on JW's part.

In my job, I have to talk to people after horrendous things have happened to them or to someone they care about. Sometimes children are involved. The injuries are catastrophic.

My job is to do an objective investigation and determine who has legal liability.

People always ask how to tell someone or their families that their injury is worth $5M but you're only offering $10k ... Don't you FEEL anything for these people?

I'm not indifferent to them. But when you start bringing "compassion" in the context I feel JW meant, you're on a slippery slope.

You can't go into each case with your feelings because a) you cease being effective and objective; b) you begin to feel possible attachment with a need to try to "fix" things; c) you'll begin to personalize and internalize almost everything; d) you will cry in your office every day; e) you will not be able to sleep at night thinking about it all.

I learned the hard way. So while it sounds cold and indifferent, it isn't. Gotta separate self from the equation. I'm just part of the who/what/when/where/how/why. The best thing I can give to each case is distance and objectivity so that the outcome is as fair as it can be given legal liability.

And the same rules apply to people I find repellent. My disdain and contempt cannot seep into evaluations because it colors the case.

Hopefully the jury will be able to make those distinctions even if she didn't explain it as clearly as she could have.

:goodpost:


Thank you for this, the thanks button just wasn't enough! I thought Dr. D did just fine with that question. Of course you can't completely leave your feelings at the door when you are dealing with people's pain on a daily basis. But she absolutely convinced me that she takes no bias into her evaluations.

It was another low blow by the DT IMO. A "you called our experts out, so we're giving you a dose of your own medicine" tactic, which they seem to fall back on regularly. Remember when Willmott pointedly said to ALV "let's get this out of the way, do you have any problems with your memory", and the DT had a big giggle over it? How childish. It pains me that Nurmi actually said in the mistrial hearings something to the effect of "this isn't second grade, it's a courtroom". I think he should have been doing some soul searching before he said that, and Willmott should have been doing some of her own. I sincerely hope that their behavior in the courtroom is not the norm. I would hope that educated attorneys can act like grownups, especially when a person's life is at stake. I have not seen them conduct themselves accordingly throughout this entire trial.