trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #151

[laniefi]

You are so very right. I was at the pool the other day and saw a young mother with her daughter. The daughter was STARVING for attention...."mom, look. mom, look at me. Hey mom...mom" and all that mother could do was lay on the chair, texting, taking pictures of herself WITH EARPLUGS in. It made me incredibly sad. I looked at my DD (24 y/o) and said "that mother is so unplugged from her child". :banghead:

I have an in-law like that....makes me so incredibly sad to see a child literally BEG for attention.

What happens when that child realizes the lengths they have to go to in order to get attention (good or BAD).

 

[Love Never Fails]

DT is predictable. JW will keep Dr. D on stand until day end because she thinks the jurors will have until Tuesday to come up with reasonable doubt. That ship sailed when Jodi took the stand. Why does all the world know that and the defense doesn't?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Hello everyone! I'm a newbie but a very long time lurker. I have no ideal how to post a new post (duh) so I biggie backed on this one lol, hope that's ok. I luv this site and luv all the comments. I am here everyday and everynight lurking. Just want to say I hope there is justis for Travis and thanks for having me

:seeya: Hello and :welcome:

:welcome3:

 

[Davia18]

As someone who had a year and a half relationship with a bona fide Borderline Personality (forensically diagnosed after the fact by a therapist) I will share this little bit of relationship goodness.

Like a proper borderline I existed in two states to her: Hero and Villian. When I was a villian, which could happen at a moments notice, I became responsible for all her troubles, even ones that predated me. In this state she was incredibly vindictive. Remember, I didn't know she was BPD at the time and, confirmation bias aside, her behavior only makes sense within the frameword of BPD. Anyway, when she was feeling particularly slighted she would expend all necessary energy to provoke me. There was a learning curve to learning not to be suckered in by this, which was hard because she, in keeping with her diagnosis, knew what buttons to press.

One thing I refuse to do in a relationship is have "relationship critical" conversations via text message. She's one of the reasons for that. Eventually some of my exasperated texts came to a person of authority who, to their credit, recognized she was nuts. Part of their questioning what a terrible, horrible person I was was recognition that my "abusive" texts existed in isolation. She never provided the texts leading up to them, which is a great big red flag.

If you want to know how the story ends, I eventually became afraid of her vindictiveness and her knack for revenge by proxy and, after some false starts in the "I will just be your supportive acquaintance" department, I completely and utterly cut off all contact with her. Sue me, she was inteligent, charming, engaging, looked like an updated Katherine Hepburn and was bat-poo crazy.

That Wilmott is attempting to make a case that Travis was abusive, even if he used "unhealthy" language, by isolating his text that were reactions to Jodi's Borderline behavior, intrusiveness, vindictiveness and just plain crazy shows what a sac de scum Wilmott is.

Seriously, it makes you want to hand a date the MMPI and have her fill it out before the salad comes.

I think some people don't understand you don't have to be loud, say negative things or even be angry to provoke someone. I'm learning that JA didn't this in a very low voice, condicending way. Glad you got away

 

[Linda7NJ]

I thought Jodi kicked her mom as an adult? When her mom came out to help her move, they fought, Jodi kicked and mom left. That's not correct?

 

[JayB12]

You are so very right. I was at the pool the other day and saw a young mother with her daughter. The daughter was STARVING for attention...."mom, look. mom, look at me. Hey mom...mom" and all that mother could do was lay on the chair, texting, taking pictures of herself WITH EARPLUGS in. It made me incredibly sad. I looked at my DD (24 y/o) and said "that mother is so unplugged from her child". :banghead:

Certainly sounds like a woman that should have never given birth to anyone.

 

[prima.facie]

Ok, so I have been trying to come up with a logical reason behind the defense team's strategy here. I think they are dragging this out just to give Jodi a few extra months to live. Think about it.

I think they are trying to save face and believe they have a chance and will keep trying till they cant try no more.. Im not sure they really care about Jodi on a personal basis as much as they care about their reputation. She is just another human in a long list of humans they will represent.

http://youtu.be/zMRrNY0pxfM

 

[JSR]

If Dr. D got information from the interrogation tapes, has she been told ahead of time not to mention stalking or tire slashing as data points?

Yes, Juan would have told her.

 

[LimoDriver]

I have a strong suspicion that JA is so vengeful, she is causing a lot of the delays purposely. In her mind it's getting even with the tax payers costing AZ more money every time she and the DT pulls a stunt as we've seen. She is so delighting in getting even, as the same attitude with killing TA. She makes people miserable and makes them pay. :woohoo:

Good thoughts. Especially now with the finding of BPD (I also think there is some comorbidity with narcissistic and sadistic behavior). Immaturity, fear of abandonment (she loves the spotlight), feelings of mental and emotional distress (the thought of her own mortality or life in prison), self-harm (I mean look at how she is being defended and who she is being presented by – JW is doing JMs job), intense sadness or anger at perceived criticism or hurtfulness (probably getting feedback from that, eh-hum person, Donovan on the backlash from the interwebs that she is receiving), manipulation to obtain nurturance (pity me I’m the victim, I HAD to stab him 27 times, shoot him in the face and nearly decapitate him b/c he got down in a linebacker stance and called me names), intense emotions (head down drawing during the testimony of a witness in her own murder trial – obviously harboring rage against Dr. DeMarte), the list goes on. BTW I referenced wikipedia for these symptoms.
I wouldn’t put it past this DT to have JA fake a triggering experience to try to “prove” PTSD. She’s already faked illness before b/c her DT wasn’t prepared.

 

[Donnareit]

can't turn the tv and AC on at the same time? so which shall it be?

Is this a trick question? Hang wet sheets over the windows and fan yourself with a magazine, of course. :idea:

 

[Liebchenmutti]

((( hugs))) for you! Thank you for sharing, you brought tears to my eyes.
I'm being a couch potato actually bed! May have kidney stones. I'm awaiting test results. It's not punishment to have bed rest as I am able to lay here and keep up.

I also would like to say that I admire that you set boundaries and distance yourself, I'm in a. Similar situation. You gave me inspiration.:seeya:

Woah! Kidney stones are not fun!! They say those things are more painful than childbirth--and I've had 3 babies naturally w/no pain killers. I don't think I could deal with a kidney stone. Take care of yourself!

 

[ohiogirl]

It's terrible that Willmott tries to make DD look bad for not asking Jodi what she "meant" in the email to Travis but on the otherside wants her to read behind the words for Travis. Clearly Willmott needed reminded that Travis isn't here to tell us what he meant.

But, but, the DT witnesses were so good at "Knowing" just what TA meant in every way, shape and form. :seeya:

 

[deanna82437]

If you have noticed that JM hasn't objected more than 3 times--he's allowing JW enough rope to hang herself. He's going to redirect the witness to basically erase everything JW's tried to bring out.

I really hope he brings up Willmott's huge gaffe yesterday when she misspoke about Lenore Walker even as she hammered Dr. D about the author. What an embarrassment!!

Even more noticeable is that JW has not even brought up Lenore Walker today. So hope that Juan addresses the subject!

 

[gwenabob]

During rebuttal, I think Juan should ask the Doctor if a person exhibits Fight or Flight in situations they themselves caused. For example, if a person is in the process of robbing a bank, by their own choice, would they manifest the same or similar fight or flight behavior as the person who is behind the teller window being robbed?

What difference does it make if Jodi was exhibiting Fight or Flight? That doesn't make her the victim. Perpetrators, who may be in fear of their victim overpowering them would exhibit the exact same fight or flight behavior.

 

[Rosemary Pierce]

I thought Jodi kicked her mom as an adult? When her mom came out to help her move, they fought, Jodi kicked and mom left. That's not correct?

I thought the same.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have an in-law like that....makes me so incredibly sad to see a child literally BEG for attention.

What happens when that child realizes the lengths they have to go to in order to get attention (good or BAD).

And then there are other children that even constant attention is never enough.

 

[Mykeru]

Gee--sounds like you dated my mom!:floorlaugh: My wonderful mother would bait me, insult me, be rude to me until I exploded with profanity, then she would cower and act like I was beating her with a baseball bat. Just for fun. I never knew which woman I'd be meeting--the happy, magnanimous, fun loving lady or the witch. She provokes my little brother much the same way. Their particular abuse is so evil because it makes the victims look crazy, abusive and cruel--when it is actually the BPD's who are the bad guys.

I had to cut off all contact 5 years ago when she started to manipulate my small children--sorry mother--you may not torment and abuse my children. And I just ran out of energy having 3 small kids and having to deal with my mother's constant need for attention.

I have only recently begun to be able to think about my mother without feeling overwhelming rage--that is a hallmark of victims of these people. They always look innocent and sane while the victims are perceived as "abusers." Travis' reaction to JA's abusive manipulations was not over the top to me--I've been in his shoes.

My mother NEVER respected any boundaries I tried to set. Being intruded on and disregarded and run over by these people is crazy-making. They lie, they manipulate and they are always looking to cause a reaction in the people around them just to alleive their emptiness.

Wow--sorry for the novel!

No, not a novel. I think people who have never had a relationship with a Borderline Personality need the information and, if we talk about it, they may have the insight that some of the people whose behavior was inexplicable was a Borderline.

I was all for Jodi Arias being a psycopath but, really, Borderline can be just as terrifying.

What you end up doing with a Borderline is asking "What did I do to deserve this?" The answer is nothing, but when the Borderline is on the dark side it doesn't take much. Lacking that, they will manipulate and provoke a response. As you said, this kind of game fills up the empty. Also, it allows them to never have to own their own failures. It's always someone else's fault. Mostly yours.

The best way to think of a Borderline if you are so unfortunate to find yourself in a relationship with one is to think of them as short-term bipolar in their attitude towards you. With mine I had all the fun of recrimination, revenge by proxy and even a faked pregnancy tossed in there.

You are right about "beating with a baseball bat".

Someone once once wrote a lay explanation of the Laws of Thermodynamics likening it to a poker game:

You can't win.

You can't break even

You can't leave the game.​

That's what a Borderline does: Your choices are to alternately be an abuser or a doormat. The fortunate thing is the above analogy breaks down on number three, because you can leave the game.

And if you know what you are dealing with, you may not be so unfortunate as to leave the game like Travis Alexander.

 

[gitana1]

Just to be clear, as I am not recalling her background (everything is starting to jumble together), does she have her Doctorate? I keep calling her Dr. D.....

Oh yes.

 

[Davia18]

During rebuttal, I think Juan should ask the Doctor if a person exhibits Fight or Flight in situations they themselves caused. For example, if a person is in the process of robbing a bank, by their own choice, would they manifest the same or similar fight or flight behavior as the person who is behind the teller window being robbed?

What difference does it make if Jodi was exhibiting Fight or Flight? That doesn't make her the victim. Perpetrators, who may be in fear of their victim overpowering them would exhibit the exact same fight or flight behavior.

Great Point :rocker:

 

[Observer in AZ]

As someone who had a year and a half relationship with a bona fide Borderline Personality (forensically diagnosed after the fact by a therapist) I will share this little bit of relationship goodness.

Like a proper borderline I existed in two states to her: Hero and Villian. When I was a villian, which could happen at a moments notice, I became responsible for all her troubles, even ones that predated me. In this state she was incredibly vindictive. Remember, I didn't know she was BPD at the time and, confirmation bias aside, her behavior only makes sense within the frameword of BPD. Anyway, when she was feeling particularly slighted she would expend all necessary energy to provoke me. There was a learning curve to learning not to be suckered in by this, which was hard because she, in keeping with her diagnosis, knew what buttons to press.

One thing I refuse to do in a relationship is have "relationship critical" conversations via text message. She's one of the reasons for that. Eventually some of my exasperated texts came to a person of authority who, to their credit, recognized she was nuts. Part of their questioning what a terrible, horrible person I was was recognition that my "abusive" texts existed in isolation. She never provided the texts leading up to them, which is a great big red flag.

If you want to know how the story ends, I eventually became afraid of her vindictiveness and her knack for revenge by proxy and, after some false starts in the "I will just be your supportive acquaintance" department, I completely and utterly cut off all contact with her. Sue me, she was inteligent, charming, engaging, looked like an updated Katherine Hepburn and was bat-poo crazy.

That Wilmott is attempting to make a case that Travis was abusive, even if he used "unhealthy" language, by isolating his text that were reactions to Jodi's Borderline behavior, intrusiveness, vindictiveness and just plain crazy shows what a sac de scum Wilmott is.

Seriously, it makes you want to hand a date the MMPI and have her fill it out before the salad comes.

And.. I'd like to say what's even worse for the men is that after they 'live thru' a relationship like this & get out hopefully alive it's exactly like you said you want to hand your date an MMPI.. aka Have trust issues with the next/other women! Even the way a man will approach the next woman in mundane things like where do you want to go to dinner there's an apprehension.. he's unsure how to react to maybe a kind gesture cuz he's waiting for the 'bomb' to drop the next chit storm the ulterior motive! Even the way he thinks has been so turned upside down by the crazy maker some women may see this man as crazy not realizing the 'programming' he's been thru with any long term relationship with a Cluster B..

Trust me I KNOW! I have to reiterate over & over there's no motive, yes I actually meant what i said etc etc.. It's very sad to see good men turned inside out after the end of these relationships!

JMO and NO I'm not saying men can't do the same to women etc just looking at the CONTEXT of this particular post LOL! ;