Trial day 53: REBUTTAL; #162

[ElleElle]

BBM~ I think Judge Stephens put a stop to this nonsense of this trial taking too long, hence the schedule.

The jurors are dropping like flies!

BTW~ Love your username! Where I live, I am surrounded by junipers.

I'm a hardcore true crime addict also :giggle:, ever since the Paul Bernardo case here in Canada. :seeya:

My mom used to say that, too. She would say, "Well, I'll swanni to goodness." I never knew what that meant.

I have not been able to read every post (I have a sweet 5 month old who is very demanding of my attention), but does anyone know why the PPL Cancun witness was never called to testify? Wasn't he going to prove Jodi was originally going to Cancun with Travis until it was changed to MiMi?

And, by the way, the first true crime book I ever read was "Fatal Vision" about Jeffrey MacDonald. I was probably about 12 and I was fascinated. It hooked me on true crime.

 

[IBsleuthin]

But.... Maybe the Father of her Children wasnt the person she was married to...

Hmmmmm?

:giggle:

Yes, I learned to say this while watching Paula Deen cook. She kept referring to her ex husband as, "The boy's father."

I just liked it so much better than what I was calling MY ex. :scared:

 

[garthmax]

But.... Maybe the Father of her Children wasnt the person she was married to...

Hmmmmm?

:giggle:

No, he was!

 

[DairyGirl]

Has it ever been explained why they don't think that Jodi dragged Travis's body by his feet/legs back into the shower? Even though the pic shows her positioned at his head, it doesn't mean that she was dragging him at the time...

I had a horrible thought. What if this was taken right after she cut his throat. I would assume in order to cut someone's throat you would need to extend the neck before you cut it. Maybe she grabbed him by the hair to pull his head back and cut his throat and the picture was taken right after that.

 

[Phoebeb]

Travis was a sweetheart, its so clear .. the DV attempt is ridiculous.

I know that is so clear to everyone following this case since we see all the extras that the jurors don't see. It makes me queasy to think that his sweetness hasn't had a chance to convey to the jury. I know, they are not basing the verdict on what a wonderful person he was, but dangit it DOES matter! The contrast between the the two of them is stunning.

 

[Gypsy Road]

JA purchased the 9mm after she murdered Travis. After she murdered Travis, she went back to live with her Grandparents -- and when she left them with another rental car maybe rented under her Mother's name, she was already being watched by LE. Use Google.

Thank you!!!

The thick headed one (me) finally understands!!!

With so many rental cars, knives, guns, road trips. I was confused!!

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

Neither of the parents seemed shocked by the news. Her mom got emotional. But neither reacted like I would if either of my children were accused of such a crime. There is no way that, initially, I could believe my children would commit such a brutal, savage act.

I enjoy your posts. I'm sure you have watched the interviews with both parents that the jurors did not see. I understand a Mother or Grandmother not being able to believe it could happen. Grandmother probably looked at the photos today in court and knows what her darling grand daughter did to this man. But she will still beg the court to spare her darling grand daughter

JMO

 

[aa9511]

I read from KCL, it was probably a good thing Juror #8 is done. Don't know much more than that except they are dropping like flies.

Anyone know what happens if there is less than 12 jurors at the end of this; because there are 15 left including the alternates.

Yeah she said she can't clarify it any further, but I'm confused now b/c I always had the impression CEO was royally bored with the defense's testimonies.

 

[katiedid2]

Premeditation can mean you keep going and going and want the person dead. You don't stabout and run like self defense, you don't stop and you deliberately cause wounds that you know no one will survive from.

Andrea Yates is severely mentally ill. Her saying that Satan was telling her to kill the kids shows clearly this, and not sane premeditation- unless it can be proven that Satan really does talk to people.

Heck I had a guy chase me on my unit once, swearing that I was his ex-wife and that he was going to "f me up" if he ever saw me again. Which I could have taken as a threat of assault (well it would have been an actual assault if my awesome fellow coworkers hadn't stepped in). I knew it was his schizophrenia talking. He wasn't on his meds.

2 days later his thinking had cleared up to the point that he at least knew I wasn't his ex and he said he wasn't going to assault me (but he still didn't like me so I still had a different person care for him just in case lol) So insane threats like that aren't like real Premeditation because its the organic brain disease talking.

Anyway She is the epitome of clinically and legally insane. She had a long history of having these issues and no one realy advocating for her to get her help and taking her seriously. SMI people can have a difficult time getting taking care if themselves and sometimes they don't think they need help and that nothing is wrong. Had she gotten the proper help, if she had not fallen through the cracks, if she had a husband who wasn't completely clueless and kept insisting on pregnancies (which messed her up more and more and the SMI can be very easy to manipulate) then its pretty darn likely that tragedy would never have happened. She is in a psych hospital forever-which is exactly where she should be. Unfortunately not many people understand this unless they work in the field, love someone with SMI, or deal with it themselves.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

Lol well I know what you mean. I worked in a facility that housed patients from crisis and inpatient. I've dealt with many similar to what you discribed.

 

[Ms.Heather]

Another question for fellow Sleuthers - Why did Grandmother all of a sudden show up in the courthouse? Towards the end of trial - To get her used to the courthouse so when she begs the jury to save her lovely grand daughter's life in the penalty phase? Did Grandmother look at the photos today to see her grand daughter's handiwork?

Beats me. I would imagine it may be the thought of it possibly being one of the last few chances she gets to lay her eyes on her granddaughter. I felt sorry for her, she looked very tired. Reminded me that JA just destroyed SO MANY lives.
Its like when her brother sister and father were all there for that the day of the sex tape, and then not again. No one really knows.

 

[tomato]

I am sorry that I have to ask something about the testimony given by Det. Brown yesterday: he stated the jodi-hair pictures were taken by the Helio phone on June 3 of 2008. I understand that Juan tried to show her attempt of appearance change before the murder and he did. On the stand, Jodi claimed her original Helio phone was stolen a few days after the phone sex recording but the phone was found in her grandpa's truck years later. She also claimed she got a replacement of the Helio phone afterwards. Many of you mentioned Det. Brown refered to the stolen phone but I did not heard him saying that. Am I missing anything? Can anyone clarify it for me? Thanks in advance!!

 

[Rocco]

I had a horrible thought. What if this was taken right after she cut his throat. I would assume in order to cut someone's throat you would need to extend the neck before you cut it. Maybe she grabbed him by the hair to pull his head back and cut his throat and the picture was taken right after that.

I think the speculation is she cut his throat in the hallway---hence the large amount of blood there.

 

[twall]

Susan Smith, if I remember correctly, was found guilty of first degree murder. I cannot, off hand, recall why she was not sentenced to DP. Was is due to her state not having the DP? I forget.

SC does have the dp and the prosecution did seek it against her. The jury voted against it so she was sentenced to life with the possibility of parole after serving 30 years.

BTW, you are my neighbor! I live in Noble county. :seeya:

 

[Sulamith]

Originally Posted by Sulamith
I always thought premeditated was a step-by-step plan myself. I still do not understand how premeditated can be within seconds of performing murder.

I was disappointed that Andrea Yates did not get put down for killing her children. She said that she thought of killing her kids for two years. She thought Satan influenced her children. To me, that is premeditation.

BBM-she had these thoughts because she is mentally ill and had postpartum psychosis. Big difference. The USA will not but a mentally ill person to death. Read the book "Are You There Alone?" Her conditions and lack of treatment are explained in detail there.

OT
I will see if my library has the book you mentioned. I have read quite a bit about the Andrea Yates trial. Where does one draw the line between mental illness and a true belief in Satan and the atrocities in the Christian bible? It looks to me that Andrea took her bible too literally and also the quiverfull lifestyle. Shame on Rusty Yates. He makes me sick..

 

[AnArmyWife_98]

Has anyone read either Ashton or Baez book? I read them both. I never paid a dime for either. Check out from the library.

I have Jeff Ashton's book on my Kindle, think I devoured it in 2 days Excellent book, IMHO. Most of it we already knew from the trial, but lots of good insight, his feelings when the verdict was read, things that weren't allowed as evidence during the trial, etc. I always recommend it to people who watched FCA's trial

 

[IBsleuthin]

Wow they are discussing borderline personality? I haven't been able to keep up lately and didn't know this. Lol I need to look up what they've been saying!

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

Wow! If you find anything showing a link to where they were arguing about the BPD would you PLEASE share it??

That would be awesome.

 

[Kaddy Wonders]

:seeya: There's something fishy about Jodi's return trip home.. She told Ryan B she had to get home in time for work that next day. That was her reason for not dropping the rental car off that day. But, Juan brought it up to her that she never did go to work that day... And, it was left at that. It must have something to do with why she filled the 3 gas cans in SLC. Doesn't look like we'll ever know now.

I never heard what happened to the 3 gas cans.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

I know that is so clear to everyone following this case since we see all the extras that the jurors don't see. It makes me queasy to think that his sweetness hasn't had a chance to convey to the jury. I know, they are not basing the verdict on what a wonderful person he was, but dangit it DOES matter! The contrast between the the two of them is stunning.

I strongly believe that the Jurors know - Let us pray...

 

[IBsleuthin]

I think the speculation is she cut his throat in the hallway---hence the large amount of blood there.

What is your speculation?:drumroll:

 

[kaydono]

I enjoy your posts. I'm sure you have watched the interviews with both parents that the jurors did not see. I understand a Mother or Grandmother not being able to believe it could happen. Grandmother probably looked at the photos today in court and knows what her darling grand daughter did to this man. But she will still beg the court to spare her darling grand daughter

JMO

Thank you for the compliment. I am undecided as to what, precisely, I would do, if my daughter did what Jodi has. I do know, that if I picked up on subtle signs, when she was young, an intervention would have taken place, regardless of how much it would cost me, financially. So, hopefully, because I am aware of my children's actions and behaviors, for the most part, I will not have to walk i in the Arias' shoes. I just cannot fathom walking away from either of my kids, regardless of what awful crime they committed. Does that make sense? I would give my life for either of my children, without hesitation.