Trial day 53: REBUTTAL; #162

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Just had to share this. I've still got goosebumps.

Shortly after I posted my theory of what happened (1 or 2 pgs back), I shut down my computer, and went to change the channel on my tv. I accidentally hit too many buttons on my remote, and ended up on Animal Planet. They are showing a program called Eating Giants: Elephants.

OMG - I just had an elephant moment! I wonder if my theory is pretty close to what really happened, because that was just too weird!
 
I always thought premeditated was a step-by-step plan myself. I still do not understand how premeditated can be within seconds of performing murder.

I was disappointed that Andrea Yates did not get put down for killing her children. She said that she thought of killing her kids for two years. She thought Satan influenced her children. To me, that is premeditation.

I honestly think Andrea Yates was severely mentally ill when she killed her precious children. I think her husband, her mother, and her mother-in-law all knew that she should never have been left alone with those kids.
 
Great analogy! Or an addiction you can't kick. I'm not a therapist, but I believe addiction runs in families?

Don't get me wrong, i'm just saying that yeah, he could of been "addicted" to Jodi, but deep down he knew she was not "the one" and never would be.

Poor guy. :(

<snip> It's like breathing in toxic fumes you can't see-it seems like regular air but it kills you.
 
Thanks.

Sorry...I'm thick headed and still not clear. I realize the 25 was stolen form the grandparents house (well, allegedly), and that's the gun that was used to kill Travis. Got that part.

But....

The 9mm. I'm not clear on that. When did she purchase it? Immediately after murdering Travis? Did she hide it in the same rental car that she used on the road trip to kill Travis? In the engine compartment?

I am so confused. Who found that gun and two knifes in the car? I thought she had already turned that car in by the time police arrested her.

Oy...I'm sorry if I'm not making sense and confusing everyone...but I don't understand.:banghead:

:seeya:

JA purchased the 9mm after she murdered Travis. After she murdered Travis, she went back to live with her Grandparents -- and when she left them with another rental car maybe rented under her Mother's name, she was already being watched by LE. Use Google.
 
Right?! Wendy Walsh I believe?? Saying women say "no" as a form of foreplay? Uhh I'm a young chicky and not in my world or the sexual world's of other gals that I'm aware of!! Didn't quite "get" that...

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Yeah, another terrrrrific way to set the women's "no means no" movement back 100 years!!
 
Eiglarsh when i was picking up my boys and crockpot form the night lacrosse game...never had sirius until this new car I just got...just in time..anywho..

Mark was expressing something in response to that pg story I think. he was saying something to the effect that Jodi will keep sending out stories to get attention and he wanted to talk about Travis and how he was glad DD always brings it back to him and how much Mark had grown to love Travis even though he had never heard of him until they started covering this case etc. He was very eloquent about it. It was so genuine-I think he was choking up a bit.

The friend who was on confirmed that Mark would have loved hanging out with Travis, that everyone did and what a special person he was.

That and those autopsy photos today...I have no clue how the family holds it together. This needs to end.

I love Mark, on twitter he has some adorable photos of him with his kids and the love in the family just jumps off the page. I think Mark and Dr. Drew have fallen in love with Travis, as we all have. What is not to love?:blushing: I think America has fallen in love with his whole family. We've kind of adopted them into our hearts. I have never prayed for folks I do not know, until this family.
 
Eiglarsh when i was picking up my boys and crockpot form the night lacrosse game...never had sirius until this new car I just got...just in time..anywho..

Mark was expressing something in response to that pg story I think. he was saying something to the effect that Jodi will keep sending out stories to get attention and he wanted to talk about Travis and how he was glad DD always brings it back to him and how much Mark had grown to love Travis even though he had never heard of him until they started covering this case etc. He was very eloquent about it. It was so genuine-I think he was choking up a bit.

The friend who was on confirmed that Mark would have loved hanging out with Travis, that everyone did and what a special person he was.

That and those autopsy photos today...I have no clue how the family holds it together. This needs to end.

His friend is hot. This is not relevant to the topic DD discussed tonight on his show, but he is still hot.
 
I read from KCL, it was probably a good thing Juror #8 is done. Don't know much more than that except they are dropping like flies.

Anyone know what happens if there is less than 12 jurors at the end of this; because there are 15 left including the alternates.

I am jumping in....but has anyone been discussing Juror 8's dismissal in more detail? I am concerned that the CEO/extensive note-taking juror is now gone because I believe he would have been a persuasive, intellectual leader if he were selected to deliberate. Who are we rooting for now?
 
My mom used to say that, too. She would say, "Well, I'll swanni to goodness." I never knew what that meant.

I have not been able to read every post (I have a sweet 5 month old who is very demanding of my attention), but does anyone know why the PPL Cancun witness was never called to testify? Wasn't he going to prove Jodi was originally going to Cancun with Travis until it was changed to MiMi?

[And, by the way, the first true crime book I ever read was "Fatal Vision" about Jeffrey MacDonald. I was probably about 12 and I was fascinated. It hooked me on true crime.

bbm

Late bloomer here. My first true crime book was Anne Rule's "If You Really Loved Me" . Totally hooked since.
 
I always thought premeditated was a step-by-step plan myself. I still do not understand how premeditated can be within seconds of performing murder.

I was disappointed that Andrea Yates did not get put down for killing her children. She said that she thought of killing her kids for two years. She thought Satan influenced her children. To me, that is premeditation.

No, premeditation does not have to be a step by step plan, although it could be. Premediation can occur within seconds, when you make the decision to kill someone.

Andrea Yates was found guilty, but insane at her second trial (which was necessitated when the State's psychiatrist, Park Dietz, was found to have made up his testimony out of whole cloth). Andrea Yates was psychotic and was found not to have had the mental capacity to determine right from wrong. She is in a secure psychiatrist hospital and will never get out. She also had a husband who kept impregnating her even though her doctors had warned him that this could result in disaster.
 
That's what she said in court. Colombo said she told him it was because the car smelled.



True except for the smoke.

I'm sure there was testimony or something about a "smoke" smell in the car that was returned. Not going looking for it ... but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere on these threads. Just sayin' :moo:

Night friends :eek:fftobed: well maybe I'll just have one of these first:martini: hic!
 
I always thought premeditated was a step-by-step plan myself. I still do not understand how premeditated can be within seconds of performing murder.

I was disappointed that Andrea Yates did not get put down for killing her children. She said that she thought of killing her kids for two years. She thought Satan influenced her children. To me, that is premeditation.

BBM-she had these thoughts because she is mentally ill and had postpartum psychosis. Big difference. The USA will not but a mentally ill person to death. Read the book "Are You There Alone?" Her conditions and lack of treatment are explained in detail there.
 
That's what she said in court. Colombo said she told him it was because the car smelled.



True except for the smoke.

No, she returned the car reeking of smoke--he testified to it in court. No explanation was ever given by Juan or DT.

Maybe Matt McCartney smokes? I know he was all involved in the shenanigans before and after the murder.
 
I think the jurors have decided. Due to appellate issues, the judge decided to allow the DT to allow a sur-rebut witness to argue against JA's obvious Borderline Personality Disorder. JMO (And I think this will highly pi$$ off the jurors)

Wow they are discussing borderline personality? I haven't been able to keep up lately and didn't know this. Lol I need to look up what they've been saying!

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BBM~ :floorlaugh:

She will probably stand there and smirk, or fake cry with tears coming from her nose. It's 50/50 imo.

IMHO, she will be yelling "this isn't right! I've been writing in my journals every day - no jury will ever convict me, no jury will ever convict me - so it can't have happened!" :scared:
 
BBM-she had these thoughts because she is mentally ill and had postpartum psychosis. Big difference. The USA will not but a mentally ill person to death. Read the book "Are You There Alone?" Her conditions and lack of treatment are explained in detail there.

Susan Smith, if I remember correctly, was found guilty of first degree murder. I cannot, off hand, recall why she was not sentenced to DP. Was is due to her state not having the DP? I forget.
 
I think despite what he wanted to portray Travis was not ready financially to marry. One does not have roommates for fun. One has roommates when they need the money. At some point we learned he was in fear of losing his home. Chris Hughes was already a millionaire when Travis was just getting his footing. ESPECIALLY to marry into the LDS world, he would have known the young lady very likely would have been trained the thing to do is begin a family, straight away. I think he was not there yet, financially so it worried him so.

I think men have been sneaking off to the other wild woman or prostitutes for their wild oats, since the beginning of time. Never in any of those situations was the man going to marry her, just have sex. I think with Jodi she made herself so available to him, it was like the football star, in a different city, calling up his local madam who sends him his favorite girl in that town. He is absolutely taking himself and all of his paycheck home to his wife, and that girl is just sex for him. It seems they can think of it like it.
The trouble is Jodi did not see herself truly as the booty call she called herself at times. She had delusions of being his wife. She finally did figure out she was, or had become, just sex to him and it was NEVER going to happen that he saw her as someone to marry, and she became the classic
hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

I trust the jury gets it. It really isn't rocket science. She was pissed off. The thing that just may get her the death penalty is the message she and her defense team tried to send is ....he had it coming.

Not on Juan's watch. Oh no, that will not stand. I think he closed VERY strong and there is no question in my mind that the jury will find her guilty, and clearly that she premeditated it, boy did Travis suffer and it was cruel.
Viola!

In the words of Detective Flores, "This is over Jodi. This is absolutely over!"

But also I think he actually cared for her, not in a marriage way, but in a friendship way. He seemed to do a lot of things for her just out of kindness - loan her money, his car, let her stay at his house, let her eat whatever she wanted at his place, probably paid for things if they went out just out of kindness cause he knew she didn't have a lot of money. So he was coming from a kind-hearted kind of place, and Jodi took all of these things as a sign that he would be willing to marry her. Cleaning the house for money was I'm 100% sure Jodi's own idea...he probably was gonna just loan her money, and she said something like, well why don't I clean your house for you cause i feel sooo bad Travis just taking your money (fakey fakey). I'm sure he would have helped her out with anything if she called him needing help for whatever. I think the defense obviously HAS done a good job pushing the sex sex sex, since that's what a lot of us even talk about. The defense has been about sex from Day 1, and Jodi crammed it into the jury's mind with her endless days rambling about it on the stand. I believe their friendship was NOT just about sex. It's this fact that is the reason they kept coming back together despite everything she did to him - their relationship was more than just sex - phone calls, text, e-mail, etc etc....not ALL of those were sexually-related. It was in his kindness I believe where she found his weakness.
 
I always thought premeditated was a step-by-step plan myself. I still do not understand how premeditated can be within seconds of performing murder.

I was disappointed that Andrea Yates did not get put down for killing her children. She said that she thought of killing her kids for two years. She thought Satan influenced her children. To me, that is premeditation.

Premeditation can mean you keep going and going and want the person dead. You don't stabout and run like self defense, you don't stop and you deliberately cause wounds that you know no one will survive from.

Andrea Yates is severely mentally ill. Her saying that Satan was telling her to kill the kids shows clearly this, and not sane premeditation- unless it can be proven that Satan really does talk to people.

Heck I had a guy chase me on my unit once, swearing that I was his ex-wife and that he was going to "f me up" if he ever saw me again. Which I could have taken as a threat of assault (well it would have been an actual assault if my awesome fellow coworkers hadn't stepped in). I knew it was his schizophrenia talking. He wasn't on his meds.

2 days later his thinking had cleared up to the point that he at least knew I wasn't his ex and he said he wasn't going to assault me (but he still didn't like me so I still had a different person care for him just in case lol) So insane threats like that aren't like real Premeditation because its the organic brain disease talking.

Anyway She is the epitome of clinically and legally insane. She had a long history of having these issues and no one realy advocating for her to get her help and taking her seriously. SMI people can have a difficult time getting taking care if themselves and sometimes they don't think they need help and that nothing is wrong. Had she gotten the proper help, if she had not fallen through the cracks, if she had a husband who wasn't completely clueless and kept insisting on pregnancies (which messed her up more and more and the SMI can be very easy to manipulate) then its pretty darn likely that tragedy would never have happened. She is in a psych hospital forever-which is exactly where she should be. Unfortunately not many people understand this unless they work in the field, love someone with SMI, or deal with it themselves.

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JW did not have to act like her BBF,to me that is not forgivable and went beyond doing her job!

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Makes me think of Scott P. and Garagos, so buddy buddy. After the trial he G. visited him once in ten years! :floorlaugh:
 
Do you recommend either? Thanks.

They were interesting, because they were from different view points. I liked Ashton's more, but I am biased. I still think Baez is a . I was shocked when Rob Lowe was cast as Jeff Aston in the Lifetime movie.
 
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