Trial day 53: REBUTTAL; #162

[kaydono]

Has anyone read either Ashton or Baez book? I read them both. I never paid a dime for either. Check out from the library.

 

[Gypsy Road]

I think he did have issues he didn't understand or seek help to talk about. He wanted to be so strong and overcome everything and he portrayed himself as so together. But I think he struggled with committment/marriage which is odd if you look at his religion and circle of friends, all of whom seemed to accept common LDS practice involving dating and then marriage as soon as possible when you find the right one.

That was even the thing the Hughe's didn't understand and seemed to blame him for in terms of not making a committment but having lengthy relationships with women. That is seemingly very odd for LDS-they seem to date people easily for a certain amount of time but stop as soon as they find the "one" and since they are actively looking for the "one" it isn't that hard IMO. I'm not of the school that thinks there's only one person out there for you. There are many people with whom you could be compatible especially when you are dating within the LDS circle.

I think he really wanted to commit but there was something he felt was missing or some hesitation in taking that final step to marriage. I wonder if it is linked to his childhood issues. Whatever, I think psycho Jodi used that and tried to be that thing Travis felt he was missing. Normally she would not have had the opportunity as she was not LDS but she quickly made that not an issue. I think there were so many awful and manipulative and cruel things she did to him all along because she found his weakness and exploited it. And he was thinking she was like those other LDS girls he dated, at least for a while. he had no idea of how evil she was. Look at his other girlfriends. Sweet, sincere, kind, rational, well rounded and then Jodi. He had no frame of reference for that. He had left the awful part of his life long ago and had since surrounded himself with good hearted, nice, sincere people who genuinely cared about him. It's like breathing in toxic fumes you can't see-it seems like regular air but it kills you.

I do think that his hesitation to commit could have very well stemmed from his childhood. He didn't have the best role models during the early part of his life. I'm just speaking from a personal standpoint, but when you have parents that are screwed up - it's sometimes hard to grow up like normal people do and have normal relationships. A lot of the time you are drawn to people who have issues because that's the type of atmosphere you grew up in and it feels familiar. Not saying that this was Travis, but it could have played into why he hadn't settled down yet.

 

[crime cases addict]

Right now...you need to youtube "Journey seperate ways literal video"
I cant post link....just do it. :floorlaugh:

Dino Rocco does a mean Steve Perry...their group is called Separate Ways

In fact I know Dino and he was always an avid Journey fan

 

[otto]

Has it ever been explained why they don't think that Jodi dragged Travis's body by his feet/legs back into the shower? Even though the pic shows her positioned at his head, it doesn't mean that she was dragging him at the time...

She doesn't have to be dragging him, but the photo was taken after his throat was slashed and I would think that the only reason that his head is not flat on the ground is because she is holding him up by his arm.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

:floorlaugh: Yes.

Me too! Remember how cool MTV was & how they only played music videos????

The olden days.:floorlaugh:

 

[Sulamith]

I never realized until I was in college, and my degree is in Criminal Justice, that the criteria for being premeditated does not have to be an actual, laid out, step-by-step, plan. It can be premeditated within seconds of performing the act. I was shocked.

I always thought premeditated was a step-by-step plan myself. I still do not understand how premeditated can be within seconds of performing murder.

I was disappointed that Andrea Yates did not get put down for killing her children. She said that she thought of killing her kids for two years. She thought Satan influenced her children. To me, that is premeditation.

 

[Sydni]

This drives me crazy too. I can't imagine the scenario. But after hearing Dr Horn again, I am going with what he sad: stabbing first. Defensive wounds, TA too incapacitated to get to end of the hall. And the 62 seconds the photos show leaves no room for a shooting to take place. She shot him after the dragging photo. That's what I'm going with now... hope the jurors do too.

I think JW's question about "would a person be able to hold their head up after a wound like that (the throat wound)" .. is because that picture of JA dragging TA down the hall shows his head elevated somewhat. So I think they are going to try to say that somehow he was alive and there was no throat wound in that picture. Which doesn't mean a lick of difference to anything, in my opinion. But .... whatever.

Not sure where I was going with this ... I lose my train of thought .. but I think she somehow had a hold of his arms while dragging him, so his head was up off the floor while she was dragging him. I dunno, I just think he already had the throat wound and was very close to death, if not totally dead. That shot in the head finished him for sure.

My heart bleeds for him in his last moments. It is my belief that he suffered a great deal, which makes that murder even more heinous than ever. She wanted him to suffer .... she is evil and creepy to the core!!!

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

If they used her for sympathy points with the jury, that is so wrong. She is probably in shock. Those photos were a gruesome reality check for her, about what her granddaughter did.

Jurors don't know this but both parents were not so surprised that JA was capable of doing this. I'm sure Grandma knows even better.

 

[kaydono]

:floorlaugh: Yes.

Wow. I am old. I knew right away who she was. I am kidding. I will never be old.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I thought that she didn't want the red one because it would stand out more and she'd be more likely to get a ticket

That's what she said in court. Colombo said she told him it was because the car smelled.

I also thought when she returned the white car, the car reeked of smoke, the floormats were missing and there was red stain on the seats. I could have sworn that's what happened,

True except for the smoke.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I thought of that too, but it wouldn't be possible. (Also, the neck strap was still in plastic in the box, never having been used)

The last two photos were taken upside down while the camera was on the floor. Which JW got Detective Melendez to admit would be humanly impossible for a person to take while the button was on the floor, facing the floor. Which is why that small little 4" tile vein appears huge in the dragging photo. I was looking for a vein about 12" long!

The photos looked like this. Timestamps were added by the Mesa PD, based on information from the EXIF data:

For an illuminating demonstration of how that camera could take photos upside down, check out Detective Melendez' demonstration in court at the 1:53 minute mark in this video. He explains it takes very little pressure anywhere on the back of the camera to snap a photo! Amazing!

Jodi Arias Murder Trial Day 6.NSFW, Graphic photos, Warning! My apologies! - YouTube

Mmmmmmm, Melendez......

Sorry.

Really going to bed now.

With Mr. Knot. Who is super cute.

Nite all.

 

[Gypsy Road]

The gun she stole from her Grandfather a few days before she killed Travis has not been found. Who knows where it is? Just because she says "she threw it out in the desert" does not make it true. I think it is possible that she either "HID" her killing weapons somewhere or threw them into a body of water between Mesa and SLC? The murderer purchased a 9 mm handgun after she murdered Travis - The 9 mm was found hidden in the hood of the rental car when she left her Grandparents home along with TWO KNIVES in her belongings inside the car.

Thanks.

Sorry...I'm thick headed and still not clear. I realize the 25 was stolen form the grandparents house (well, allegedly), and that's the gun that was used to kill Travis. Got that part.

But....

The 9mm. I'm not clear on that. When did she purchase it? Immediately after murdering Travis? Did she hide it in the same rental car that she used on the road trip to kill Travis? In the engine compartment?

I am so confused. Who found that gun and two knifes in the car? I thought she had already turned that car in by the time police arrested her.

Oy...I'm sorry if I'm not making sense and confusing everyone...but I don't understand.:banghead:

:seeya:

 

[Midnight Meddler]

BBM - I might be wrong, I'd have to check, but didn't she take the car back to the rental the morning after she arrived home?

You may be correct on that. The only thing I could recall is the car was rented in Redding, and she had purchased gas after leaving Utah.

MOO

:seeya: There's something fishy about Jodi's return trip home.. She told Ryan B she had to get home in time for work that next day. That was her reason for not dropping the rental car off that day. But, Juan brought it up to her that she never did go to work that day... And, it was left at that. It must have something to do with why she filled the 3 gas cans in SLC. Doesn't look like we'll ever know now.

 

[kaydono]

Jurors don't know this but both parents were not so surprised that JA was capable of doing this. I'm sure Grandma knows even better.

Neither of the parents seemed shocked by the news. Her mom got emotional. But neither reacted like I would if either of my children were accused of such a crime. There is no way that, initially, I could believe my children would commit such a brutal, savage act.

 

[Alexander family fan]

I think he did have issues he didn't understand or seek help to talk about. He wanted to be so strong and overcome everything and he portrayed himself as so together. But I think he struggled with committment/marriage which is odd if you look at his religion and circle of friends, all of whom seemed to accept common LDS practice involving dating and then marriage as soon as possible when you find the right one.

That was even the thing the Hughe's didn't understand and seemed to blame him for in terms of not making a committment but having lengthy relationships with women. That is seemingly very odd for LDS-they seem to date people easily for a certain amount of time but stop as soon as they find the "one" and since they are actively looking for the "one" it isn't that hard IMO. I'm not of the school that thinks there's only one person out there for you. There are many people with whom you could be compatible especially when you are dating within the LDS circle.

I think he really wanted to commit but there was something he felt was missing or some hesitation in taking that final step to marriage. I wonder if it is linked to his childhood issues. Whatever, I think psycho Jodi used that and tried to be that thing Travis felt he was missing. Normally she would not have had the opportunity as she was not LDS but she quickly made that not an issue. I think there were so many awful and manipulative and cruel things she did to him all along because she found his weakness and exploited it. And he was thinking she was like those other LDS girls he dated, at least for a while. he had no idea of how evil she was. Look at his other girlfriends. Sweet, sincere, kind, rational, well rounded and then Jodi. He had no frame of reference for that. He had left the awful part of his life long ago and had since surrounded himself with good hearted, nice, sincere people who genuinely cared about him. It's like breathing in toxic fumes you can't see-it seems like regular air but it kills you.

I think despite what he wanted to portray Travis was not ready financially to marry. One does not have roommates for fun. One has roommates when they need the money. At some point we learned he was in fear of losing his home. Chris Hughes was already a millionaire when Travis was just getting his footing. ESPECIALLY to marry into the LDS world, he would have known the young lady very likely would have been trained the thing to do is begin a family, straight away. I think he was not there yet, financially so it worried him so.

I think men have been sneaking off to the other wild woman or prostitutes for their wild oats, since the beginning of time. Never in any of those situations was the man going to marry her, just have sex. I think with Jodi she made herself so available to him, it was like the football star, in a different city, calling up his local madam who sends him his favorite girl in that town. He is absolutely taking himself and all of his paycheck home to his wife, and that girl is just sex for him. It seems they can think of it like it.
The trouble is Jodi did not see herself truly as the booty call she called herself at times. She had delusions of being his wife. She finally did figure out she was, or had become, just sex to him and it was NEVER going to happen that he saw her as someone to marry, and she became the classic
hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

I trust the jury gets it. It really isn't rocket science. She was pissed off. The thing that just may get her the death penalty is the message she and her defense team tried to send is ....he had it coming.

Not on Juan's watch. Oh no, that will not stand. I think he closed VERY strong and there is no question in my mind that the jury will find her guilty, and clearly that she premeditated it, boy did Travis suffer and it was cruel.
Viola!

In the words of Detective Flores, "This is over Jodi. This is absolutely over!"

 

[aa9511]

This drives me crazy too. I can't imagine the scenario. But after hearing Dr Horn again, I am going with what he sad: stabbing first. Defensive wounds, TA too incapacitated to get to end of the hall. And the 62 seconds the photos show leaves no room for a shooting to take place. She shot him after the dragging photo. That's what I'm going with now... hope the jurors do too.

I think she shot him right before she put him in the shower...like knd of in the middle of the bathroom in between the start of the hallway and the shower. He was lying on his side and she shot him, then maybe turned him around a little, lifted him from his armpits, and put him in the shower.

 

[Boytwnmom]

Eiglarsh when i was picking up my boys and crockpot form the night lacrosse game...never had sirius until this new car I just got...just in time..anywho..

Mark was expressing something in response to that pg story I think. he was saying something to the effect that Jodi will keep sending out stories to get attention and he wanted to talk about Travis and how he was glad DD always brings it back to him and how much Mark had grown to love Travis even though he had never heard of him until they started covering this case etc. He was very eloquent about it. It was so genuine-I think he was choking up a bit.

The friend who was on confirmed that Mark would have loved hanging out with Travis, that everyone did and what a special person he was.

That and those autopsy photos today...I have no clue how the family holds it together. This needs to end.

Ohhh... on Dr Drew we get to hear about the "pregnancy" story!!!!
From a friend of Travis.
Sounds like she DID do that to him...
We shall see...

 

[Steft50]

I love the way you guys call your SI (significant other) "Mr. Knott", or "Mr. Pizza", etc. But what do I call mine? Mr. Me? Mr. Princess? :waitasec: :dunno:

Mr SezMe

 

[Hatfield]

I lived in the Riverdale section of the Bronx and Son of Sam didn't live too far away from me. We heard he was coming to Riverdale to kill again- he said that after he was arrested. Thank goodness he was caught. Horrible.

I remember the time well. We were near Brooklyn at the time and the whole city was on alert because he promised he would kill again on the anniversery of one of his murders and that is exactly what he did. My Gram would not let us out after dark that day, and the very next day in the NY TIMES, he had shot that couple in Brooklyn. He ended up getting caught I think at an airport shortly after. It was scary times.

 

[Kaddy Wonders]

Has anyone read either Ashton or Baez book? I read them both. I never paid a dime for either. Check out from the library.

Do you recommend either? Thanks.