Trial day 53: REBUTTAL; #162

[Hopeful One]

Does anyone know the jurors reaction to the pictures they qwere shown? I asked earlier which ones but lost my post.
This trying to work and keep up here is killing me.

That's why I gave up on the work. Just hoping I don't get fired! I figure if they say anything, I'll just tell them to give me another week or two, then I'll be back to normal, I promise!!!!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I've had some questions about Jodi for a while but didn't want to disrupt trial discussion to ask. Some of you probably started following this case five years ago, but until the trial started, I had only seen the 48 Hours and Inside Edition features about Jodi Arias and/or excerpts from the programs on HLN.

Based on what I've heard during the trial, Jodi enjoyed art and took piano lessons as a child. What other interests did Jodi have while she was growing up? Did she play sports of any kind? Was Jodi involved in any type of club/group activity like Girl Scouts? Did she take dance lessons? Did her family attend church regularly, and if so, did Jodi attend religious education classes? Before she dropped out of high school, did Jodi participate in typical activities like sports, cheerleading, choral group, drama club, academic organizations?

For those who have followed the case since the beginning, have you gleaned anything about Jodi's hobbies and interests during her childhood, teens, and young adult life? All I gather is that Jodi had no pursuits of her own and immersed herself in the activities, friends, lives, religions of her current boyfriend. Other than waiting tables in restaurants, taking road trips hither and yon, becoming involved in the Mormon Church, I know so little about Jodi despite having followed the trial for nearly 4 months. :waitasec:

Just an observation I've had - probably doesn't answer your question - but I really think the "I'm a photographer/artist" stuff was a sad, desperate attempt to lend legitimacy to her aimless, shiftless, uneducated (no education or training in either pursuit) life. It's as if she had to "pick" something so people wouldn't think she was just a lump of living tissue taking up space and working menial jobs with no realistic aspirations.

 

[sammijo]

Nope. The point of a trial is for the state to present and then prove the charges they bring against a defendant and for the defendant to hold the state to their burden of proof. That's it. Every.Little.Bit.Of.Information is not required in most cases to prove a case. Some of the info is not relevant and/or would create prejudice.

Cases are not presented for the entertainment and amusement of an enraptured public. I think jurors understand their jobs and certainly by the end are well informed the only evidence they are to consider is that which was presented to them in the courtroom. The only relevant evidence is that which is presented in court (assuming the judge has ruled correctly on everything).

I didn't get that the OP wanted "entertainment and amusement".

After the FCA and Pinellas 12 debacle, it's a very real fear that another murderer might get away with it.

While most believe she will be convicted of 1st Degree with at least LWOP, it's always at the back of my mind that she could walk free, now or in a few years. I don't see it happening, but I didn't think FCA would walk either. And I remember a lot of confident posts about how her conviction was a guarantee.

There's so much the jury hasn't seen. It's just worrying and frustrating.

 

[Nhic]

While this is mostly true, the gun was not elsewhere. JA had reportedly hidden it in the engine compartment of the rental car.

Upon her arrest, the books and knives (plural) were discovered.

The 9mm handgun she had purchased and hidden in the rental car was not found by LE. Instead, the rental car agency found it while maintaining the vehicle.

After learning from JA that it had not been recovered, Sandy Arias reportedly called the PD to inquire about the status of the gun and to request its return.

BBM

What do you make of that, anything?

 

[sammie]

Indeed they should decline.

Imagine that...some expert witnesses have ethics!

 

[Lisa57]

I can't understand people thinking that if the knife was used first then there was no premeditation. I'm not sure JA had an actual plan other than to kill TA when she left home. She packed for her trip like most people do, taking things with her that she may or may not use. I think it was during her trip that she came up with the plan to kill him in the shower, thinking one good stab to the heart while TA was in the shower would be quick & easy to contain the mess. What she didn't plan on was TA not cooperating. He fought back & got out of the shower, screwing up all of the plans she made so she revised her plan.

 

[shelley921]

I've had some questions about Jodi for a while but didn't want to disrupt trial discussion to ask. Some of you probably started following this case five years ago, but until the trial started, I had only seen the 48 Hours and Inside Edition features about Jodi Arias and/or excerpts from the programs on HLN.

Based on what I've heard during the trial, Jodi enjoyed art and took piano lessons as a child. What other interests did Jodi have while she was growing up? Did she play sports of any kind? Was Jodi involved in any type of club/group activity like Girl Scouts? Did she take dance lessons? Did her family attend church regularly, and if so, did Jodi attend religious education classes? Before she dropped out of high school, did Jodi participate in typical activities like sports, cheerleading, choral group, drama club, academic organizations?

For those who have followed the case since the beginning, have you gleaned anything about Jodi's hobbies and interests during her childhood, teens, and young adult life? All I gather is that Jodi had no pursuits of her own and immersed herself in the activities, friends, lives, religions of her current boyfriend. Other than waiting tables in restaurants, taking road trips hither and yon, becoming involved in the Mormon Church, I know so little about Jodi despite having followed the trial for nearly 4 months. :waitasec:

I know - this is what I want more of too--what was she like growing up as far as activities, interests & friends-? One girl that was a classmate called in to Dr Drew awhile back & said she was 'normal' and funny. but she had not seen Jodi since Jodi dropped out of school. Another young woman called and said Jodi was a bridesmaid at her wedding and video was shown of Jodi in a bridesmaid dress. This young woman said jodi took photographs and made a wedding album for her as a gift. But did Jodi have any close women friends? Doesn't seem like it.

 

[Beccaboo]

I'm going just slightly unnerved by the opinions that express disbelief regarding stabbing or shooting first. Why bring the gun, why search for knife, why, why, why?

First of all, the evidence is overwhelming. Jodi went there to kill Travis. As a women who was going to kill him, does anyone really believe that she didn't have several scenarios in her mind? The fact that the ceiling photo was taken from a height of approx foot feet from the ground suggests to me that she didn't drop the camera until after she went in for the first check stab wound. I think she intended to use a combination of knife and gun, gun being so loud that it would have been a last resort. Jodi is so sick and twisted, I think she was berating him the entire time she was stabbing him and TA was in shock at what was happening. FACTS and EVIDENCE are so supportive of the fact that stabbed him in the shower first, regardless of the crap coming out of JA's fairy tale. Anyway, off to work and a rest of all of this tragedy.

I think she planned on shoot him and the knife was back up. There is always a little truth in lies. In her ninja story, Jodi said the gun jammed. I think in reality she went to shoot Travis after forcing him with the gun to take the shower pics. I think she forgot to flip the safety off. I think when the gun jammed Travis did start out of the shower and most like said something mean (as any of us would having a wackadoo trying to shoot us) as he came out of the shower I thinks she stabbed him in the chest. After she slit his throat, while he was in the throws of death, she flipped the safety off and shot him. JMHO

 

[Litigatrix]

Good morning folks. I saw the HORRIFIC pictures last night of the autopsy photos and also heard a beautiful poem that Travis wrote Linda after their break-up. Both overwhelmed me in a way that my cynical mind couldn't even comprehend. Anything but the death penalty is insufficient justice in my opinion.

 

[aa9511]

Thank you so much for this! I love, love LOVE the front photo of him with his family. The most offensive thing Jodi said was she knows the hurt of his family and friends is only temporary. They will miss him, every moment of every day. Forever.

That's b/c like per her mental psycho problem, she can't feel whta other ppl feel. To her she was able to forget him within seconds...she can't fathom the human emotions that go along with losing someone, esp. your close family members. He was temporary to her, she didn't grieve him, she had no feelings whatsoever after she killed him, except for hate for him in her sick mind him putting her in the position where she might go to jail and causing her all these problems. You can see the hate for him oozing from her in the Det. Flores tapes when she's talking about how Ryan Burns eventually told her that this (their relationship, whatever it was) wasn't gonna work out b/c so many ppl thought she had a hand in his murder. She was sooooo mad at Travis for taking away her chance with Ryan. She even said something like I just wanted to move on, I just wanted to put it behind me but ppl weren't letting me...it came out inadvertently I believe in one of her long ramblings with Flores. Those weren't the exact words but that is exactly what she meant. She will never ever understand for the rest of her life she is just evil.

 

[outofstatelawyer]

I don't understand this argument. The use of a knife requires procuring and then using said weapon; even if done very quickly, adequate time elapsed---only a split-second is required to form intent-- to meet the requirements for premeditation. The only way using the knife first is incompatible with premeditation is if you buy Arias's preposterous self-defense argument. I have great faith that that myth has been successfully put to rest by the prosecutor.

I still think the knife was a hunting knife. I have really good kitchen knives, and I keep them sharp. And I have to struggle to cut up a chicken. In my common experience, kitchen knives would make inflicting the kind of injuries JA inflicted on TA extremely difficult. I have to deduce she brought along a hunting knife. More premeditation.

 

[Poffles]

Gooood morning!!! :seeya:

I was really bummed yesterday afternoon thinking that we don't have trial until next Wednesday. Then I started obsessing over what Travis went through and I got sick to my stomach. Had to take a break from these threads for awhile.

But, then I got home last night, and I MADE DINNER and CLEANED. Something I haven't done in months because of this obsession I have with the trial. I told my husband it feels sooo good to be back in the swing of things a bit. He said, "Yeah because I've been doing everything for four months." Shut up!!!!! Not true!!! But okay, yeah, it kinda is.

So, maybe this will be a nice break. Maybe we can enjoy our real lives a bit and be ready to listen to the surrebuttal drivel, without feeling the need to stab our eardrums with a Bic pen, by the time it comes around.

Plus spring is finally here - 70s this weekend!!! God is shining down, fur the realz.

We've been living in parallel universes for the past 5 months from the sounds of it! My husband sounds just like yours! He'll be so glad when this trial is over and I am more available in the evenings again. Come to think of it the dogs will be too! I think I'll get out in the yard and do some gardening for a nice change!



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[momof7]

That's why I gave up on the work. Just hoping I don't get fired! I figure if they say anything, I'll just tell them to give me another week or two, then I'll be back to normal, I promise!!!!

I have just been telling people I have not been feeling well and my head is all 'foggy'. So far its working. It won't last until June though so I am thankful we will get to closing arguments next week. :floorlaugh:

K

 

[Hopeful One]

A scathingly brilliant good morrow to all, sleuthers! Say, chaps, did you know there is a serious party going on over in the Sidebar Thread? Check it out over this long and seemingly never-ending weekend. Softail started it last night and it features postings of favorite music videos and trips down memory lane. All ages and experience levels welcome. :seeya:

Thanks for the suggestion!! Been feeling a little lost since court ended yesterday and was unsure of what to do with myself till Wednesday. Walking around in a fog... no direction... visiting threads I haven't visited in months... my brain is scrambled (and it's my fog but thanks for helping me to get out). I can't comprehend this, this, what is it? Life?? Life to be lived without the trial? Huh?

Maybe I shall go all out and take this break to get a cosmetic approach to my pelvic region.

 

[Nhic]

I've had some questions about Jodi for a while but didn't want to disrupt trial discussion to ask. Some of you probably started following this case five years ago, but until the trial started, I had only seen the 48 Hours and Inside Edition features about Jodi Arias and/or excerpts from the programs on HLN.

Based on what I've heard during the trial, Jodi enjoyed art and took piano lessons as a child. What other interests did Jodi have while she was growing up? Did she play sports of any kind? Was Jodi involved in any type of club/group activity like Girl Scouts? Did she take dance lessons? Did her family attend church regularly, and if so, did Jodi attend religious education classes? Before she dropped out of high school, did Jodi participate in typical activities like sports, cheerleading, choral group, drama club, academic organizations?

For those who have followed the case since the beginning, have you gleaned anything about Jodi's hobbies and interests during her childhood, teens, and young adult life? All I gather is that Jodi had no pursuits of her own and immersed herself in the activities, friends, lives, religions of her current boyfriend. Other than waiting tables in restaurants, taking road trips hither and yon, becoming involved in the Mormon Church, I know so little about Jodi despite having followed the trial for nearly 4 months. :waitasec:

Maybe there's nothing to tell. Kid from nowhereville, going nowhere, etc.

I'm sure her mother or other family member will reveal all in an upcoming book published after JA's conviction.:floorlaugh:

 

[LucyVino]

As the trial draws to a close, RadarOnline.com has collected 8 pieces of shocking and insightful information that for a variety of legal reasons didn’t make it into the courtroom while the jury was present.

1. Jodi’s Jail Rap Sheet
Far from a model prisoner, Arias’ disciplinary action report shows that the murder defendant was embroiled in a fight with her cell mate at the Estrella Jail in Phoenix, Ariz. on July 27, 2009, which she claimed was self defense.

She also had a number of bizarre violations of prison policy such as hiding pens under her sink, possessing 19 unauthorized pictures, disobeying her instructor and possessing unauthorized creams including anti-itch, anti-fungal and acne lotion, according to records obtained by HLNTV.

3. Styled By Her Defense Team!
The jury members have most likely noticed that Jodi often dresses remarkably similar to her defense attorney Jennifer Willmott, but what they don’t realize is that the brunette lawyer is responsible for providing her with clothes for court each day, reported HLNTV. The clothes are bought from bargain and discount stores.

(you know Jodi HATES that ^^)

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/04/8-pieces-evidence-jodi-arias-jury-wont-hear/

I want to see the 19 unauthorized pictures!

 

[raisincharlie]

Jodi may have also pulled over in the desert some where and took a few shots with the 25 cal just to get familiar with how it worked.
We don't know how many bullets were in the gun when it was stolen.
That may be why she used the knife first because the gun might only have had one or two bullets left in it or if she test fired the gun in the desert it may have kept jamming because it had not been cleaned in years.
This would make her rely on the knife as her first choice weapon.

I seriously doubt we will ever know the truth of either how or why.

I do not know how old the .25 was. What I do know about my own firearms that are autos - when they jam the slide locks open to prevent misfire. Don't know if this one would have been capable of that or not since we know nothing about manufacturer, maintenance, or age. One thing I think we can assume, the gun started out with 7 rounds when it was stolen (.25 ammo later found at Mum's house), report reflects a seven round magazine also missing with the gun. I thought it was possible she tried to test the gun while still in Yreka - just thought it since JM made a big stink over the pictures of her cut finger in the photos of June 1. Those scrapes looked quite similar to the type one can get when chambering a round in an auto if not careful or ignorant of how to do so.

Something in me just leads me to believe Travis was starring down the barrel of a gun in the full face photo taken shortly before he died, but he was not shot first for one reason or another. This really slapped me when hearing the audio to the video where he is talking about the armed robbery...which Jodi, despite her feline posture, heard as well.

 

[Hopeful One]

We've been living in parallel universes for the past 5 months from the sounds of it! My husband sounds just like yours! He'll be so glad when this trial is over and I am more available in the evenings again. Come to think of it the dogs will be too! I think I'll get out in the yard and do some gardening for a nice change!



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Gardening!!! That's what I'm looking forward to!! JA is keeping me from so many good things in life. What a jerk.

 

[atm9533]

The answer to that is ballistics. If JA returned the gun to go, the police would have found it a and done the ballistics test. Case solved. She IS Einstein aft e r all!

that is correct.

 

[Madeleine74]

It really doesn't matter which she planned to do first. And it doesn't really matter how the murder went down. Either way it was premeditated, heinous, cruel and caused suffering.

JA will never disclose the truth about that day. It's an exercise in frustration to try and figure out what she intended and exactly what movement she made at each point in time.

The only thing the jury needs to decide is if the state proved the elements of the crime and if that proof meets the burden beyond a reasonable doubt. It does. Travis was murdered, not killed in self defense, and it was a premeditated murder regardless if Jodi picked up the gun first, the knife first, did a headstand in between. She intended to kill him, she did kill him.

Murder One.