Trial Discussion Thread #11 weekend thread

[MeeBee]

If anyone thinks audio tests conducted by Roux are totally worthless unless they exactly replicate every single condition - I think that's naive. Roux has to raise possibilities, nothing more.

It's totally naive and it is setting an impossible set of standards and expectations to pass the test. The wind has to be blowing at the exact same speed, it has to be the exact same temperature, the dew points must be exactly the same, it has to be the exact same time of night...

The fact of the matter is if he presents audio evidence that corroborates Oscar's story, audio evidence that the state hasn't done, evidence that is perfectly scientific and at the very least compelling, then it will still be denied because it doesn't make Oscar look guilty. If Roux went to Oscar's and did the tests and everything matches up then that is very compelling evidence that the judge won't simply write off because it wasn't performed in the exact same conditions of that night. That is solid proof that Oscar's story is plausible. The problem is people just don't want to hear it. It's scary.

 

[Viper]

I just can't imagine what could be in OP's iPad history that could be that damaging to his case. If it's more *advertiser censored* then...not much.

I am not sure that it is the iPad, maybe the phone, because that expert is next?

 

[MeeBee]

I am not sure that it is the iPad, maybe the phone, because that expert is next?

The phone expert is next so if anything damning is coming it is probably in relation to that. Very interested to see. Just a few more hours to go.

 

[lisasalinger]

If anyone thinks audio tests conducted by Roux are totally worthless unless they exactly replicate every single condition - I think that's naive. Roux has to raise possibilities, nothing more.

I agree with this. The ear witness accounts of screaming and banging are enormously important, and potentially dangerous, to Oscar's case. I would be disappointed if Roux didn't do some form of testing in relation to sound, as ridiculous or unreliable as we may personally think those tests are.

Ultimately the Judge will decide if it has value. I'm sure this is not the first sound test brought to her rodeo. I say bring it... let's see what they've got.

 

[MeeBee]

I was a foreman on a jury for an attempted murder case a few years ago and it was seriously one of the most stressful things I've ever done. Deliberations are so intense... this forum is like Disneyland compared to that. I was extremely confident with our ultimate decision and yet still cried for a week after because I had so much emotion built up.

I can imagine. What a delicate thing and job to have. Making the right decision is Imperative because of the chance of sending an innocent person to jail or letting someone who's guilty go free. This is the first trial I've followed where I don't have much confidence in either the person's guilt or innocence. It's like, nerve wracking, lol. I just want justice to be done...whatever that is.

 

[LemonMousse]

Think whatever you want.

You're interpreting evidence and giving weight to some and not to other. My list ONLY included items that are not in dispute, not challenged, and accepted by both sides. All the rest is disputed or contradictory or somehow in doubt.

It's accepted by both sides that there was silence after the last bangs?

Really?

And I would go back and watch Vermuelen again, if I were you.

 

[soozieqtips]

It's totally naive and it is setting an impossible set of standards and expectations to pass the test. The wind has to be blowing at the exact same speed, it has to be the exact same temperature, the dew points must be exactly the same, it has to be the exact same time of night...

The fact of the matter is if he presents audio evidence that corroborates Oscar's story, audio evidence that the state hasn't done, evidence that is perfectly scientific and at the very least compelling, then it will still be denied unless it because it doesn't make Oscar look guilty.If Roux went to Oscar's home that night and everything matches up then that is very compelling evidence that the judge won't simply write off because it wasn't performed in the exact same conditions of that night. That is solid proof that Oscar's story is plausible. The problem is people just don't want to hear it. It's scary.

BBM - Yes. And if he did by chance manage to replicate the conditions as closely as possible and the sounds didn't travel like he thought they would (didn't he try some sort of test already?) - then this would be solid proof that OP's story is implausible and that people just don't want to hear it? The criticism has to work both ways. If you're stating as fact that those who believe OP is guilty won't accept something that points to his account being plausible, then those who believe he is innocent won't accept anything that points to his account being implausible.

 

[MeeBee]

It's accepted by both sides that there was silence after the last bangs?

Really?

And I would go back and watch Vermuelen again, if I were you.

Um, isn't it? I don't recall the defense asserting that there were more cries or shouts after the last set of bangs but I could be wrong. Everyone seems pretty consistent in that after the last set of bangs the shouts trailed off and then silence.

 

[lisasalinger]

Thanks for that lisa. The "I cannot stop it" remark is intriguing, as if something damaging was about to come out that Oldwage wanted kept quiet? Was it shortly afterwards that court was adjourned?

Yes, actually it was right when they adjourned. They stood up and were about to walk out when you could see Roux whisper to Oldwadge... he was right in front of the microphone so that picked up the whispers.

I've watched it a few times now, and I'm telling you, something is up with the iPads. It was a very interesting exchange. Roux's cross was one question... he wanted to know if Mr. Sales could verify who was looking at or using the iPad at any given time (paraphrasing) and he said no, he cannot confirm who was using it.

Bring on the cell data!! I'm ready, let's make this happen

 

[Trooper]

I agree with this. The ear witness accounts of screaming and banging are enormously important, and potentially dangerous, to Oscar's case. I would be disappointed if Roux didn't do some form of testing in relation to sound, as ridiculous or unreliable as we may personally think those tests are.

Ultimately the Judge will decide if it has value. I'm sure this is not the first sound test brought to her rodeo. I say bring it... let's see what they've got.

most probably, Judge M would weigh up the probability conclusion of Roux test of the test, and the impartiality of the witnesses..

ie.. were the witnesses impartial?? or was the test impartial.

if the test differed from the witnesses testimony. .. which is more likely to be impartial in their conclusion ?

 

[MeeBee]

BBM - Yes. And if he did by chance manage to replicate the conditions as closely as possible and the sounds didn't travel like he thought they would (didn't he try some sort of test already?) - then this would be solid proof that OP's story is implausible and that people just don't want to hear it? The criticism has to work both ways. If you're stating as fact that those who believe OP is guilty won't accept something that points to his account being plausible, then those who believe he is innocent won't accept anything that points to his account being implausible.

If Roux has mentioned he's done the tests then he's done them and intends to use them. If he intends to use them I don't imagine it's very detrimental to his case. If he puts on any tests then I'm willing to bet they corroborated his client's testimony. He'd be a very stupid man to use the tests if they didn't, don't you think?

The criticism does work both ways. If any tests had been put up that went against Oscar's version then I would accept it. So far, none has, in relation to noise tests.

It's not tit for tat. And I don't believe he's innocent. I have formed no firm opinions.

But if there are audio tests that corroborate Oscar's version, I guarantee people still won't accept it. I'd bet money on it.

 

[MeeBee]

Yes, actually it was right when they adjourned. They stood up and were about to walk out when you could see Roux whisper to Oldwadge... he was right in front of the microphone so that picked up the whispers.

I've watched it a few times now, and I'm telling you, something is up with the iPads. It was a very interesting exchange. Roux's cross was one question... he wanted to know if Mr. Sales could verify who was looking at or using the iPad at any given time (paraphrasing) and he said no, he cannot confirm who was using it.

Bring on the cell data!! I'm ready, let's make this happen

You're right. It does appear something big is coming.

 

[lisasalinger]

I can imagine. What a delicate thing and job to have. Making the right decision is Imperative because of the chance of sending an innocent person to jail or letting someone who's guilty go free. This is the first trial I've followed where I don't have much confidence in either the person's guilt or innocence. It's like, nerve wracking, lol. I just want justice to be done...whatever that is.

You know what's interesting... for the first half of that trial I was on, I did not believe the case was proven. I was at not guilty. And then the defendant took the stand. In my opinion, he totally ruined his case. For some very specific reasons, he was not credible to me. And then ultimately, there were some other parts to the evidence that we pieced together to seal it for us. We were 7 to 5 for guilty at the beginning of deliberations. How fun does that sound?! Ugh. Not fun! But in the end, we figured it out. It took a lot of combing through evidence, and re-reading instructions about 100 times to get it right.

It was such a fascinating experience and I'm so thankful for it. I would gladly serve again, but no way in h#ll would I be foreman.

 

[Trooper]

If Roux has mentions he's done the tests then he's done them and intends to use them. If he intends to use them I don't imagine it's very detrimental to his case. If he puts on any tests then I'm willing to bet they corroborated his client's testimony. He'd be a very stupid man to use the tests if they didn't, don't you think?

The criticism does work both ways. If any tests had been put up that went against Oscar's version then I would accept it. So far, none has, in relation to noise tests.

It's not tit for tat. And I don't believe he's innocent. I have formed no firm opinions.

But if there are audio tests that corroborate Oscar's version, I guarantee people still won't accept it. I'd bet money on it.

the impartial laws of physics says they cant.

even Roux cant over come them. neither can Nels. stuff is what it is.

 

[MeeBee]

You know what's interesting... for the first half of that trial I was on, I did not believe the case was proven. I was at not guilty. And then the defendant took the stand. In my opinion, he totally ruined his case. For some very specific reasons, he was not credible to me. And then ultimately, there were some other parts to the evidence that we pieced together to seal it for us. We were 7 to 5 for guilty at the beginning of deliberations. How fun does that sound?! Ugh. Not fun! But in the end, we figured it out. It took a lot of combing through evidence, and re-reading instructions about 100 times to get it right.

It was such a fascinating experience and I'm so thankful for it. I would gladly serve again, but no way in h#ll would I be foreman.

You know Lisa, the best May be yet to come. Just because the state is wrapping up doesn't mean they are finished. It wasn't until Ms. Arias took the stand that the state's case really took off and until the defense's witnesses, as well. It's too early to form any opinions either way. Everything could fall apart for Oscar in the next stage. I'm very much hoping the state rests today.

 

[MeeBee]

the impartial laws of physics says they cant.

even Roux cant over come them. neither can Nels. stuff is what it is.

I some think you can know that yet without seeing the tests.

 

[soozieqtips]

~snipped~

But if there are audio tests that corroborate Oscar's version, I guarantee people still won't accept it. I'd bet money on it.

And I guarantee that if any such tests disprove OP's version, that people still won't accept it and will say the test was flawed...

To be honest, I haven't seen any evidence of a single neutral poster yet. Just my opinion based on responses when challenged. But I'm okay with that as I've admitted to not being neutral myself. I think everyone here has a leaning one way or the other way and that no one is absolutely neutral, even if they think they are. Again, just my opinion based on what I've read.

 

[Trooper]

I do sincerely hope for Oscars sake, ( and I do believe that Oscar is not getting good representation, from what I have heard and seen so far.. I'm more than ready to change that view) that Roux hasn't persuaded himself that that vclip doing the rounds on the internet of the old guy plugging away with a bat, the microphone stuff is NOT the tests he presents. It made me very nervous for Oscar when he asked Vermulen to watch it, and learn from it. Vermulan 's look of disbelief was mirrored in my own.

 

[lisasalinger]

You know Lisa, the best May be yet to come. Just because the state is wrapping up doesn't mean they are finished. It wasn't until Ms. Arias took the stand that the state's case really took off and until the defense's witnesses, as well. It's too early to form any opinions either way. Everything could fall apart for Oscar in the next stage. I'm very much hoping the state rests today.

Absolutely! We watch and wait, a lot more can and will happen.

 

[minor4th]

It's accepted by both sides that there was silence after the last bangs?



Really?



And I would go back and watch Vermuelen again, if I were you.

Yes it's accepted that there was a PERIOD of silence after the 3:17 bangs. In other words the screaming stopped with the last sounds.