Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Rumpole]

So you believe OP had already killed her in the first bangs and then he screamed like crazy that sounded to five independent witnesses, from four? differently locations, like a woman screaming for her life, all before he'd been able to break into the toilet room to see what he'd done? Ok.....

Good point.. it was before he saw her.

However, I still believe that he did the screaming that sounded like a woman. It certainly was not Reeva, since the evidence proves that the sounds of screaming were after she was dead (ish)... heart beating but brains blown out.

 

[zwiebel]

Oscar to Reeva, after a row.

https://mobile.twitter.com/barrybateman/media/grid?idx=1&tid=448155854231961600

ETA: He actually asked her to stop putting on an accent. Sounds like she was just messing about?

 

[Val1]

Nobody ever mentioned OP vomiting at the scene of the crime. It is odd that he only seems to get that spontaneous, visceral reaction to blood with pictures in a courtroom, and not in real life.

I don't really think it was the pics so much as realizing what he'd done to himself.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Hmm, what was that bit about Twitter letting you know when someone tweets that you're following?

Could be. I have since thought about Reeva's phone switching off. I understand iPhones batteries need recharging every day and perhaps it just ran out of power. Though I still find it a bit odd that the timing for OP was 1.48 and the same for RS. The odds of that happening must be phenomenal.

 

[steveml]

Nobody ever mentioned OP vomiting at the scene of the crime. It is odd that he only seems to get that spontaneous, visceral reaction to blood with pictures in a courtroom, and not in real life.

That's very true, you would expect something at the scene. The scene must have been far worse than the photographs.

My guess would be if he did, it may have been decided that it wouldn't help the case in determination of guilt regarding intent, either for or against.

 

[Insp.Dots]

OMG we still have the unexplained jeans!
I thought we were close when Reeva mentioned doing washing in What's app chat..
Maybe they had after all that just blown off the line?

 

[Rumpole]

One of my faves. I've always had the impression that he smells a bit tho.

It was a little avatar experiment to pass a bit of time during the case. I'll probably stick with this one now.

Was the original the real you? I did not pay that much attention, just recall it was a guy?

 

[zwiebel]

Reeva to Oscar. Jan 26th.

https://mobile.twitter.com/barrybateman/media/grid?idx=1&tid=448155854231961600

 

[Val1]

Maybe Alyce La Violette?

That would help.

:floorlaugh: Can we have Juan too??!!!

 

[Insp.Dots]

That's very true, you would expect something at the scene. The scene must have been far worse than the photographs.

My guess would be if he did, it may have been decided that it wouldn't help the case in determination of guilt regarding intent, either for or against.

I vaguely remember Roux mentioning it in the early days. I did note he did it in the documentary when he was being tested to prove he wasn't cheating with his legs in competition. Maybe he also throws up when under pressure or stress....some people are just prone to puke?

 

[Insp.Dots]

Well, thank you all for a pleasant sleuthing sesh, time to do some work now so will hopefully catch up again later:loveyou::seeya:

 

[zwiebel]

OMG we still have the unexplained jeans!
I thought we were close when Reeva mentioned doing washing in What's app chat..
Maybe they had after all that just blown off the line?

I'm wondering if they use a line? I can imagine a housekeepr would, but not Oscar. Reeva had been doing her washing there at one point.

Reeva's jeans blown off the line?

Reeva's/OP's jeans and she/he left them there after sunbathing?

Reeva's jeans and OP threw them out of a window?

Another woman's jeans and OP threw them out before Reeva saw them?

Ditto, but Reeva threw them out.

Neither lawyer expressed any interest in them at all, I think. We never even found out what bottoms Reeva was wearing when she arrived, or if she had changed for bed.

 

[steveml]

Was the original the real you? I did not pay that much attention, just recall it was a guy?

Yep. Most of my earlier ones were taken during the Kodak Instamatic era, when cameras were the size of a football.

 

[katydid23]

I think at lot of people here at WS feel that way, probably because we wanted answers to the thousands of questions that were asked here for the past year.

Many people will list out what was proven or what was not, but to better understand the basic principles of what we just saw the State do:

OP has already admitted to wanting to intentionally kill a person, he is just arguing that he made an error as to which person it was that he killed as a result, but he wanted to kill a person, he did kill a person, and that is Murder.

The premeditation was what we witnessed from all of the "a woman screaming and then gunshots" witnesses, along with the issues about how he mistreated Reeva and that she was actually scared of him at times. All of that goes against his story and tells the court that he knew it was Reeva he was killing, so premeditation.

As many have noted the Murder charge is what he is facing, Premeditation is added because it was premeditated and because it should get him a longer sentence than the 25 year mandatory minimum.

All of the above is just my opinion.

Good points.

Also, I have to keep in mind that Nel is not playing to a jury. He is concerned with the judge and her assistants, and they are a much narrower target. They will have access to a lot of documents and statements that we are not even aware of.

I just have to bank upon Nel doing a bruising cross, and a heck of a great closing statement. rayer:

 

[Rumpole]

:floorlaugh: Can we have Juan too??!!!

WOW!!

That would be great... could make a fortune pay-per-view.

Barry Roux V Juan Martinez

 

[patCee]

I'm wondering if they use a line? I can imagine a housekeepr would, but not Oscar. Reeva had been doing her washing there at one point.

Reeva's jeans blown off the line?

Reeva's/OP's jeans and she/he left them there after sunbathing?

Reeva's jeans and OP threw them out of a window?

Another woman's jeans and OP threw them out before Reeva saw them?

Ditto, but Reeva threw them out.

Neither lawyer expressed any interest in them at all, I think. We never even found out what bottoms Reeva was wearing when she arrived, or if she had changed for bed.

I would guess that driers are used for washing and not outdoor lines. I would think that on such an exclusive estate outdoor lines are not allowed.

 

[steveml]

Good points.

Also, I have to keep in mind that Nel is not playing to a jury. He is concerned with the judge and her assistants, and they are a much narrower target. They will have access to a lot of documents and statements that we are not even aware of.

I just have to bank upon Nel doing a bruising cross, and a heck of a great closing statement. rayer:

:thumb:

 

[zwiebel]

'Nel's cross of OP will be crux of case..'

http://www.news24.com/Multimedia/Vi...nation-of-Oscar-will-be-crux-of-case-20140324

 

[Rumpole]

Yep. Most of my earlier ones were taken during the Kodak Instamatic era, when cameras were the size of a football.

I had one of the huge "Pornaroid" cameras

The technology did not last... neither did the photos... some have faded completely.

Love having a digital camera.

 

[Val1]

Well, thank you all for a pleasant sleuthing sesh, time to do some work now so will hopefully catch up again later:loveyou::seeya:

Haha, it's almost 6:45am here, I best go count sheep for a bit. :seeya: