Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[minor4th]

Yet OP and Reeva's phones both show internet activity at the same time. How likely is it that both phones accessed the internet at the same time without someone doing this themselves?

Not unlikely. They both had iphones and probably used the same carrier - could have been an iphone automatic update or update of carrier settings.

 

[crasshopper]

....
I was teetering on the edge yesterday, but I am back to square one again. Innocent till proven guilty.

You only need the motive for premeditation but HE IS GUILTY beyond reasonable doubt of murder according to South African Law.

The why's, wherefore's and but's don't mitigate his shooting an unarmed "intruder" through the door with a barrage of hollow point bullets. He didn't even give them warning or call 911 while holding the gun corning them in the bathroom.

He is NOT innocent, it is just a question of guilty of what.

 

[minor4th]

So what are we guessing as far as defense witnesses?

Top of my head possibilities:

Oscar Pistorius

Sound expert re: screams/cricket bat sounds

Toolmark expert who did microscopic analysis on the marks on the door

Pathologist expert to give alternate theory about the order of Reeva's wounds and capacity to scream

Additional ear witnesses to refute state's ear and witnesses (possibly Cristo M., adjacent neighbors, gardner)

Police witnesses - Van Ardt, Botha, Motha

Ballistics expert to testify about distance of shots, position of OP, order of gunshots and how they were fired

Dixon - Vermuelen's former commander re: cricket bat marks and crime scene handling, sock fibers on door and kick marks

Standers - eye witnesses

Divarias maybe

What else?

 

[curiousjo]

I heard that once a text is deleted- there is no way to track it. Is this true? Any chance OP got a text or sent a text that night --- that he deleted? And the girl at other end is keeping quiet, as she does not want to be labelled the catalyst?

Why was R cell phone in the bathroom? Who takes their cell to loo at 3 am? I think things happened fast, and she dropped cell while trying to get away from him!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

My mistake. However, it still makes no sense for his defense to claim that the head shot was first. If they do this then they have to explain how OP was able to shoot her in the hip when she was down. The trajectory would not add/line up.

This is why the defence has been trying to establish through the witness testimony that the gunshot sounds were a double tap .
The defence are going to try and prove that she was bending over with her right ear to the door listening for the dangerous imaginary intruder that OP had warned her about . The highest bullet hole in that door was only 104cm with a downward angle so she would have had to have been bending over far more than anyone would just putting there ear to the door The prosecution will hopefully be expecting this and address it with some sort of evidence ( one would hope anyway )

 

[james83]

So what are we guessing as far as defense witnesses?

Top of my head possibilities:

Oscar Pistorius

Sound expert re: screams/cricket bat sounds

Toolmark expert who did microscopic analysis on the marks on the door

Pathologist expert to give alternate theory about the order of Reeva's wounds and capacity to scream

Additional ear witnesses to refute state's ear and witnesses (possibly Cristo M., adjacent neighbors, gardner)

Police witnesses - Van Ardt, Botha, Motha

Ballistics expert to testify about distance of shots, position of OP, order of gunshots and how they were fired

Dixon - Vermuelen's former commander re: cricket bat marks and crime scene handling, sock fibers on door and kick marks

Standers - eye witnesses

Divarias maybe

What else?

We didn't hear from Oscar's neighbours from either side did we?.

 

[minor4th]

We didn't hear from Oscar's neighbours from either side did we?.

Nope, and Roux indicated he will bring witnesses who were closer than any of the state's witnesses

 

[minor4th]

This is why the defence has been trying to establish through the witness testimony that the gunshot sounds were a double tap .
The defence are going to try and prove that she was bending over with her right ear to the door listening for the dangerous imaginary intruder that OP had warned her about . The highest bullet hole in that door was only 104cm with a downward angle so she would have had to have been bending over far more than anyone would just putting there ear to the door The prosecution will hopefully be expecting this and address it with some sort of evidence ( one would hope anyway )

Thanks for that. I was scratching my head over Roux' suggestions about Reeva leaning over and how that would affect anything.

 

[minor4th]

Does anyone familiar with SA trials know if the prosecution gets a rebuttal case?

 

[Carol70]

We didn't hear from Oscar's neighbours from either side did we?.

Nope...nor did we hear from any previous girlfriends who may have suggested he was prone to tantrums and jealous rages...maybe roux will call up an ex or 2.
Cecil Myers too, who claimed he warned OP and told him to "back off" from Reeva.

 

[Suthrnqt]

I heard that once a text is deleted- there is no way to track it. Is this true? Any chance OP got a text or sent a text that night --- that he deleted? And the girl at other end is keeping quiet, as she does not want to be labelled the catalyst?

Why was R cell phone in the bathroom? Who takes their cell to loo at 3 am? I think things happened fast, and she dropped cell while trying to get away from him!

According to the phone guy's (sorry don't recall his name) testimony, he could retrieve deleted material.

 

[minor4th]

Nope...nor did we hear from any previous girlfriends who may have suggested he was prone to tantrums and jealous rages...maybe roux will call up an ex or 2.
Cecil Myers too, who claimed he warned OP and told him to "back off" from Reeva.

Ah, yes, that should be added to list of possible witnesses. Former gf's - although I don't know how relevant it is at this point sine the state brought no evidence that he was physically abusive or had history of DV

 

[delilah]

1. What time did you and Reeva really go to bed on Feb 13th, if you even went to bed at all?

2. Why did you describe your relationship with Reeva as loving when there is proof in text message form that she was unsure of the relationship and if you were in love with her at all?

3. Can you scream now for the court as you claim that you did the night that you shot and killed Reeva? If the scream does NOT sound like a female, how do you explain that?

Ah, the screaming, of course. I wonder how Roux is going to tackle that little problem?

 

[Carol70]

Ah, yes, that should be added to list of possible witnesses. Former gf's - although I don't know how relevant it is at this point sine the state brought no evidence that he was physically abusive or had history of DV

Exactly, roux could have them up stating he was nothing but a loving, caring boyfriend, that they never feared for their lives or were ever afraid of him?

 

[lisasalinger]

Do they have rebuttal and surrebuttal in South Africa?

Typically in rebuttals you can call additional witnesses, as long as the defense witnesses open the door to that specific evidence in question (I think).

Is this just a US thing?

 

[Fuskier]

Australian news is reporting the following:

http://www.news.com.au/national/rus...ed-to-know-today/story-fncynjr2-1226864857742

"The South African court has adjourned for two days at the request of the defence, which will open on Friday"...
"The prosecution has rested in Oscar Pistorius’s murder trial , and the athlete is “likely” to take the stand during his defence"...
"Pistorius’s lawyer Brian Webber said: “I don’t think we have a choice. It’s a question of when,” Mr Webber said.

 

[DebinGA]

This is why the defence has been trying to establish through the witness testimony that the gunshot sounds were a double tap .
The defence are going to try and prove that she was bending over with her right ear to the door listening for the dangerous imaginary intruder that OP had warned her about . The highest bullet hole in that door was only 104cm with a downward angle so she would have had to have been bending over far more than anyone would just putting there ear to the door The prosecution will hopefully be expecting this and address it with some sort of evidence ( one would hope anyway )

Roux told Capt. Mangena that his expert will say the ricochet didn't cause the bruises to RS's back, the magazine rack did. Perhaps he'll say the ricochet shot was 1st and caused RS to immediately bend way down and simultaneously shot 2 hit her lowered head.

 

[lisasalinger]

Does anyone familiar with SA trials know if the prosecution gets a rebuttal case?

oops... I guess I should catch up on the thread before posting

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out Nel's strategy. I have to believe he has something else up his sleeve. It's not unusual for Prosecutors to wait until the defendant takes the stand or to wait for rebuttal to bring out the big guns. Is that what we have going on here? Today's ending was just blah.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Thanks for that. I was scratching my head over Roux' suggestions about Reeva leaning over and how that would affect anything.

I am really hoping that we are going to see some of Nel's best cross examination. I have been kind of disappointed with how the prosecutions case has concluded but it would be disrespectful of me not to bow to Nel 's better knowledge and experience .
He will no doubt manage to shoot down some of their evidence just like the defence has .
Hopefully he won't be quite so annoying as the defence guys although I realise they are only doing their job .

 

[DebinGA]

oops... I guess I should catch up on the thread before posting

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out Nel's strategy. I have to believe he has something else up his sleeve. It's not unusual for Prosecutors to wait until the defendant takes the stand or to wait for rebuttal to bring out the big guns. Is that what we have going on here? Today's ending was just blah.

Wasn't it Roux who asked Nel to bring "Batman" back today? And for no good reason it turned out, as Nel indicated to m'lady afterward, except to change the subject from yesterday's email release and end Nel's case with a whimper.