Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[lisasalinger]

Should have clarified, I meant while Stipp was on scene tending to Reeva, not as soon as Stipp arrived x

I wanted to point that out because I believe it's important that both Stander & Stipp were outside when he went upstairs. Easier to slip away at that point. It could be nothing, but it also could be something.

 

[sorrell skye]

Lisasalinger - I appreciate your attention to detail! :yourock:

 

[nastasya]

BBM

Yes - the instinct to survive is extremely powerful - as is the instinct to ensure that your loved ones are safe.

A few years ago, my youngest daughter (a teen at the time) and I were home when someone tried to break into our house early in the morning. I grabbed the phone and dialed 911 while at the same time waking my daughter. I wanted to ensure that if the intruder succeeded in breaking in (he was trying to break down the front door), my daughter would be awake and alert so that she could flee or fight. I didn't even have to think about it - my instinct was to make sure my daughter was safe.

Per Samantha Taylor's testimony (OP's former girlfriend), OP's historical pattern had been to awaken her and consult with her when he heard noises in the night that he thought might be an intruder. She testified to 2 separate instances when he had done so.

On the morning that OP shot and killed Reeva, he didn't even check to see where she was (according to his version), nor did he consult with her regarding the noise he allegedly heard (as he'd done with ST in the past), let alone ensure that Reeva was awake, safe, and ready to flee or fight.

At a glance, OP's version sounds plausible. But when placed in context of his historical pattern (see above reference), and when scrutinized beneath the light of the State's evidence, I personally find his version to be less credible than the State's case.

The killer's version doesn't come close to sounding credible in any way, nor does the defense explanation for what witnesses heard:

• I challenge anybody to find another case in the history of crime where a woman got up to pee in the middle of the night and her partner immediately followed her into the bathroom, then gunned her down through the bathroom door, not realizing she left the bed,
  
  
• I challenge anybody to find a case in the history of crime where a killer immediately replicated the sounds of the killing, and where multiple witnesses heard the replicated sounds of the killing, but not the actual killing itself.

 

[lisasalinger]

Lisasalinger - I appreciate your attention to detail! :yourock:

Thanks, Sorrell :seeya:

 

[TorisMom003]

It's not hard for me to imagine him screaming in anguish and terror as the reality dawned that he had quite probably just fired four bullets at his girlfriend, compounded by the fact that she's behind a locked door and he can't immediately get to her. It is a possibility, at least.

The bail application was a limited document for a limited purpose. He was under no obligation to detail his every movement and utterance at that time, and it is legally prudent for him not to have done so. Contradictory statements will be relevant, other additions may be suspicious, but claiming he screamed in terror as he expands his account does not really concern me.

BBM

However, witness testimony is that the female screaming began immediately after the first shot. So if, as the defense and OP would have us believe, it was OP screaming and the witnesses were mistaken why did he fire 3 more shots into the toilet room door?

 

[curiousjo]

Do you think OP went upstairs to wash his hands, then open bathroom window?

Why didn't either lawyer ask the ex girlfriend if OP sleeps with bathroom window open or closed? Also - if so terribly hot and AC broke - then who would sleep with curtains closed and fans on porch?

Why didn't OP ensure R was safe then alert the intruder he knew they were in bathroom- come out with your hands up... I've got a gun and will shoot... Police on the way! 2 chances for OP to know R in bathroom Plus common sense! Doesn't add up!

 

[TorisMom003]

Do you think OP went upstairs to wash his hands, then open bathroom window?

Wash his hands, yes among other things. Open the bathroom window, no as there has been testimony by Dr. and Mrs. Stipp that the bathroom window was already open when the first set of gunshots were heard by them.

MOO

ETA: Wash his hands, yes among doing OTHER things that we are not aware of yet.

 

[nastasya]

But if the crying was heard after the two sets of bangs then Reeva was already dead. So it had to have been Oscar.

So if the witness heard the killer crying, and her husband identified the voice as that of the killer, and the same witness heard a man and a woman arguing for an hour beginning at 1:56 am, then this is further proof of OP's guilt. In fact it seals OP's guilt if Van der Merwe's testimony is accurate.

 

[Interested Bystander]

That's interesting. Was there testimony about where the alert access point were?

Sorry, no, but a poster here said they are usually in the main bedroom. I have not read or heard that myself. I can only confirm what Baba said under cross examination.

 

[lisasalinger]

Do you think OP went upstairs to wash his hands, then open bathroom window?

Why didn't either lawyer ask the ex girlfriend if OP sleeps with bathroom window open or closed? Also - if so terribly hot and AC broke - then who would sleep with curtains closed and fans on porch?

No, I don't think it was either, but honestly have no idea what he did up there. I'm sure Nel will ask him though.

 

[Cherwell]

It's not difficult to accept that he was crying after the event. But why would he have been screaming in terror, as some of the witnesses have described? He has said that he shouted various things - well, he uses the word "screamed" but if he was articulating words, then that's shouting, yelling.

It's not hard for me to imagine him screaming in anguish and terror as the reality dawned that he had quite probably just fired four bullets at his girlfriend, compounded by the fact that she's behind a locked door and he can't immediately get to her. It is a possibility, at least.

The bail application was a limited document for a limited purpose. He was under no obligation to detail his every movement and utterance at that time, and it is legally prudent for him not to have done so. Contradictory statements will be relevant, other additions may be suspicious, but claiming he screamed in terror as he expands his account does not really concern me.

Sorry, I should have been clearer: I meant why would he be screaming in terror beforehand?

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm curious about something and I hope that if/when OP takes the stand and is under cross exam that it is cleared up for me.

Mrs. Stipp's testimony was that when her husband (Dr. Stipp) returned home from OP's house after doing what he could to try and help (not knowing that it was in fact OP that he had seen), that he told her that a man who had large muscles (or something to that effect) and tattoos on his back had shot his girlfriend. Now those tattoos on OP's back would not be visible with a shirt on. The pictures taken of OP afterwards in the garage show that there was no blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms as if he had in fact had a shirt on. So how did OP manage to carry a bleeding (and according to him, dying) Reeva downstairs without getting any blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms? And if he did in fact get blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms as well as his lower arms, hands and legs then why did he clean himself up removing only the blood from his chest, shoulders, upper arms and hands?

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Interested Bystander]

TY. I missed that part of Baba's testimony. So, if OP had the option to utilize the alert system, for some reason he chose not to (if his alleged fear of a burglar is true). Add to that his response to Baba "Everything is fine".

Tongue-in-cheek: he probably chose not to press the button because he would have been very embarrassed when the guards found Reeva in the loo!:floorlaugh:

 

[curiousjo]

If OP testifies- will it be behind closed doors and confidential?

 

[lisasalinger]

I'm curious about something and I hope that if/when OP takes the stand and is under cross exam that it is cleared up for me.

Mrs. Stipp's testimony was that when her husband (Dr. Stipp) returned home from OP's house after doing what he could to try and help (not knowing that it was in fact OP that he had seen), that he told her that a man who had large muscles (or something to that effect) and tattoos on his back had shot his girlfriend. Now those tattoos on OP's back would not be visible with a shirt on. The pictures taken of OP afterwards in the garage show that there was no blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms as if he had in fact had a shirt on. So how did OP manage to carry a bleeding (and according to him, dying) Reeva downstairs without getting any blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms? And if he did in fact get blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms as well as his lower arms, hands and legs then why did he clean himself up removing only the blood from his chest, shoulders, upper arms and hands?

I hope that makes sense.

He did admit to washing his hands (and I believe his face) before he was photographed and tested. So somewhere along the lines he did wash himself. I'm guessing if he washed his hands and face, he probably wiped down some of his upper body too.

 

[kittychi]

She said she heard a woman screaming and her husband told her it was in fact OP screaming. Roux didn't say it was OP.

IIRC, That was OP crying. After the shooting.

 

[lisasalinger]

If OP testifies- will it be behind closed doors and confidential?

No. The Judge only blacked out the Medical Examiner because of the graphic nature of the injuries. We should be able to hear Oscar, but I'm guessing he probably won't want to be on camera. It may be like the private witnesses who chose not to have their face shown. Not sure if the Judge would grant this or not.

I'll be very bummed if we cannot watch his face during this.

 

[lisasalinger]

If OP testifies- will it be behind closed doors and confidential?

They should make him sit in the reconstructed toilet room while he testifies :floorlaugh:

Lets see how he likes being harassed behind a closed door.

 

[TorisMom003]

No. The Judge only blacked out the Medical Examiner because of the graphic nature of the injuries. We should be able to hear Oscar, but I'm guessing he probably won't want to be on camera. It may be like the private witnesses who chose not to have their face shown. Not sure if the Judge would grant this or not.

I'll be very bummed if we cannot watch his face during this.

OP is a public figure who has had his photo taken regularly. I doubt too that the judge would grant a defense request that he would be allowed to testify without it being on camera. After all, the world was allowed to see his crying, vomiting, smiles, etc up until now.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

I cannot wait for Nel to cross examine Oscar! His story will either hang together because it's true or it will crumble. Whatever happens, I think this will be one of the most important aspects of the trial and hopefully it will reveal once and for all whether Oscar's account is true or fabricated.