Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[steveml]

There are four witnesses in addition to Van der Merwe. All were 100% adamant they heard a woman's voice at approximately the hour OP shot and killed Reeva.

It's very clear.

Even with no witnesses, OP's own affidavit describes premeditated murder. Five witnesses hearing a woman's voice followed by gunshots confirms what happened. The defense that OP replicated the very sounds of the murder is a unique defense, but not even close to reasonable. What's next? The hologram defense where a defendant claims he produced a holographic image of the exact crime which is what all the eye-witnesses saw?

If it wasn't so tragic it would be laughable.

The testimonies of the others refer to a woman screaming, and a man screaming, or both, depending on who you decide to believe. No talk of arguing.

There is only one woman who can justify voices to the effect of an argument. She doesn't even know if it was in English or Afrikaans. And when a resulting test was done she didn't hear it.
It's hardly my fault.

:dunno:

If they didn't argue, then we have a problem with all the hyperbole regarding the bad relationship. There was no evidence of threats, no evidence of bad feeling before she arrived and presents involved. I didn't build my case around an argument, so it doesn't come as a surprise to me.

Nel's had a good amount of time and plenty of opportunity to build a case, so I could be entirely wrong.

 

[Carol70]

BIB

This is the third time you've stated that he couldn't leave the bedroom.
I've already asked you twice why you think that would have been a problem, but you haven't explained your reasoning.
I'm asking a third time. Why do you insist that leaving the room was not an option>?

I would imagine it's because the door was locked! OP could possibly have thought in his mind, at that moment in time, that it wouldn't have been a safe option to flee the room with an unknown intruder in the bathroom who could possibly have exited the bathroom at any moment and come shooting down the passage to his bedroom, possibly chasing him and Reeva down the stairs while he is on his stumps. Something tells me that when you are fleeing for your life in terror on stumps, it's not quite the same as running the Olympics on your blades. Just a thought.

 

[james83]

That's what I think too - he went and unlocked the front door to allow Stander in and the paramedics that he asked Stander to call.

Only Stander hadn't called an ambulance?,
"
Stander then ordered Baba, who says he didn’t enter the house, to go and call the police and an ambulance, the guard said.

This part of the night is very odd, the more i think about it the more it appears something fishy was going on.

" I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived".

Off the phone to Netcare at 3:21:11 and told to take her to hospital but yet around 4 minutes later when Stander/baba arrive he is only just bringing her down the stairs, very hard to explain.

 

[Carol70]

Is OP taking the stand tomorrow for sure or just expected to? I am really curious about how he will do. Keep it together or theatrics.

There is an excellent chance it is tomorrow and I think it was confirmed on Tuesday by one of the attorneys that he would be taking the stand.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Only Stander hadn't called an ambulance?,
"
Stander then ordered Baba, who says he didn’t enter the house, to go and call the police and an ambulance, the guard said.

This part of the night is very odd, the more i think about it the more it appears something fishy was going on.

" I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived".

Off the phone to Netcare at 3:21:11 and told to take her to hospital but yet around 4 minutes later when Stander/baba arrive he is only just bringing her down the stairs, very hard to explain.

As far as I know FWIW..NetWare is a Private Ambulance service that OP called, and the other Ambulance was from a normal hospital. Someone in an earlier thread said that the everyday ambulance service is known to be poor and take longer or not arrive.

sent via my kindle

 

[Viper]

Yes, to suggest that you must see the would-be attacker in every instance would lead to absurd results. You could never shoot a masked intruder because you could not definitively determine that it is a stranger and not your brother. You could not defend yourself if a would-be attacker is obscured by darkness or shadows.

Only Stander hadn't called an ambulance?,
"
Stander then ordered Baba, who says he didn’t enter the house, to go and call the police and an ambulance, the guard said.

This part of the night is very odd, the more i think about it the more it appears something fishy was going on.

" I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived".

Off the phone to Netcare at 3:21:11 and told to take her to hospital but yet around 4 minutes later when Stander/baba arrive he is only just bringing her down the stairs, very hard to explain.

She was dead, she died in the WC. The state expert said so, and last year OP expert said so in a tv interview - BTW I saw him sitting in the courtroom listening to testimony several times during the trial.

Why he waited IDK... But then IDK why he completely tore down the door either if he just needed to reach the key? To look at what he had done?

 

[Cherwell]

I would imagine it's because the door was locked! OP could possibly have thought in his mind, at that moment in time, that it wouldn't have been a safe option to flee the room with an unknown intruder in the bathroom who could possibly have exited the bathroom at any moment and come shooting down the passage to his bedroom, possibly chasing him and Reeva down the stairs while he is on his stumps. Something tells me that when you are fleeing for your life in terror on stumps, it's not quite the same as running the Olympics on your blades. Just a thought.

Unlocking the door was not a problem, it was not locked from the outside.

The distance to the exit was a matter of a few paces, much closer than heading down the double passage. He or Reeva could have grabbed his prostheses on the way. And one of them could have hit the security alarm button.

Having left the room, OP could have locked the door from the outside, trapping any intruder in the bedroom suite.

I have said all this before though, and am still waiting for an explanation from Minor4th who keeps stating that it was not an option. Why not?

 

[katydid23]

<respectfully snipped to address this one point>

I watched the video today and it shows a toddler Oscar wobbling around on the beach on stumps - not running, not skiing or playing football or tennis like the other kids. He took up sports when he was older and fitted properly with prosthetics.

I haven't seen anything at all that shows OP is fast and agile while maneuvering on his stumps as an adult. In fact his ex testified that he has to hold on to things for balance sometimes and has limited mobility on his stumps.

ThT's what is so confusing. Why did he rush headfirst into the dark hallway on stumps, not knowing how many intruders or where they were exactly? He didnt even call security for backup first.

 

[Carol70]

The testimonies of the others refer to a woman screaming, and a man screaming, or both, depending on who you decide to believe. No talk of arguing.

There is only one woman who can justify voices to the effect of an argument. She doesn't even know if it was in English or Afrikaans. And when a resulting test was done she didn't hear it.
It's hardly my fault.

:dunno:

If they didn't argue, then we have a problem with all the hyperbole regarding the bad relationship. There was no evidence of threats, no evidence of bad feeling before she arrived and presents involved. I didn't build my case around an argument, so it doesn't come as a surprise to me.

Snipped.

But..but....he absolutely killed her in a rage. He didn't buy her a valentines gift!
//runs

 

[steveml]

It would be interesting to know, is there anyone who believes that OP intentionally killed Reeva, but agrees with any part of his affidavit?

If we go off the presumption that he lied, it would be far more sensible to create a story and change only a few critical parts.

Once on the witness stand the least you have to remember, the less likely you are to trip yourself up.

Most of the theories I've heard so far in favor of prosecution have refuted almost every single part of the affidavit.

Just a thought.

 

[steveml]

But..but....he absolutely killed her in a rage. He didn't buy her a valentines gift!
//runs

:smile:

He did, he bought her some jeans.

And they ended up in the garden :wink:

 

[minor4th]

BIB

This is the third time you've stated that he couldn't leave the bedroom.
I've already asked you twice why you think that would have been a problem, but you haven't explained your reasoning.
I'm asking a third time. Why do you insist that leaving the room was not an option>?

I'm sorry if I missed your previous requests - I do just scan posts sometimes when I am limited on time.

I'm saying Oscar has stated that he did not believe that he could get him and Reeva out the bedroom safely and quickly enough to avoid being shot by the bad guy he thought was in the toilet. Or at least he has laid out allegations that suggest that - it was dark, the bedroom door was locked, he was on his stumps, he was enveloped in terror...

 

[minor4th]

ThT's what is so confusing. Why did he rush headfirst into the dark hallway on stumps, not knowing how many intruders or where they were exactly? He didnt even call security for backup first.

To kill them with his gun

 

[Interested Bystander]

Before I catch up, can I just ask the UK guys what their view of Filming trials is from watching this one unfold?
I can't help thinking if they had done 'exactly' the same here with the same errors, that some would be shouting 'unfair , miscarriage, trial by media etc etc... It's starting to feel like Hollywood doing some kind of reality tv film...except sadly someone has actually died.

I personally struggle with this case that witnesses can sit at home the weeks before they take the stand and watch all the evidence, other witnesses...I know they are not supposed do but let's be honest, surely most do that.
All that said, I am loving watching it, though I genuinely hope that Justice is done.


sent via my kindle

I would love to see trials in the UK mainly because the law fascinates me but I do have reservations. I think some witnesses both for and against, even unseen, will feel profoundly uncomfortable knowing they are being listened to and may not perform well under questioning.

I have already listened to some journalists and a lawyer saying they think Roux is playing to the camera. That I would not like.

We can of course watch trials live in court and I have done so. The only problem is those that go on for weeks involve a lot of downtime and a lot of travelling.

 

[Carol70]

As far as I know FWIW..NetWare is a Private Ambulance service that OP called, and the other Ambulance was from a normal hospital. Someone in an earlier thread said that the everyday ambulance service is known to be poor and take longer or not arrive.

sent via my kindle

Netcare is the private ambulance service- 082 911 ( I think, not sure of the number)
The normal ambulance service is 10111 which was called by Stipp but he couldn't, typically, get through.
ETA: just want to add the 10111 is the general emergency number like your American 911 number.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Waiting for Reeva to die?

Making sure she did.

 

[minor4th]

But..but....he absolutely killed her in a rage. He didn't buy her a valentines gift!
//runs

I love your new doggy avatar is that one of yours?

 

[TorisMom003]

That's what I think too - he went and unlocked the front door to allow Stander in and the paramedics that he asked Stander to call.

But if OP really asked for Stander to call for paramedics, then why was the next phone call OP made to Netcare?

 

[Cherwell]

I'm sorry if I missed your previous requests - I do just scan posts sometimes when I am limited on time.

I'm saying Oscar has stated that he did not believe that he could get him and Reeva out the bedroom safely and quickly enough to avoid being shot by the bad guy he thought was in the toilet. Or at least he has laid out allegations that suggest that - it was dark, the bedroom door was locked, he was on his stumps, he was enveloped in terror...

I see, you were just basing your comments on what Pistorius says.

 

[minor4th]

Just curious - of those of you who are sure that Oscar was abusive and killed Reeva in a fit of rage, who also believes that Alice LaViolet was correct in her analysis of Travis as an abuser based also on a few text messages?