Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Gbtaketwo]

i have issue's here
3:21:11 Oscar ends call with netcare who he says told him to bring her in
3:26 Dr Johan Stipp arrives at Oscar's to find Oscar rendering assistance to Reeva at the foot of the stairs.
So why didn't Oscar do as netcare told him?, he say's after the netcare call he ran downstairs and opened his front door, so why did he not put Reeva in his car and go?.
Strangely 54 seconds after the call to netcare, Oscar answers the phone call from Pieter Baba and tells him "everything is fine"?.
What exactly was he doing when he should have been taking Reeva to hospital?, answering the phone to baba shouldn't have been high on his list of priorities.

He may have been busy looking for the bin liners to stem the blood flow ....or was it Standers daughter that did that ?

 

[nastasya]

The testimonies of the others refer to a woman screaming, and a man screaming, or both, depending on who you decide to believe. No talk of arguing.

There is only one woman who can justify voices to the effect of an argument. She doesn't even know if it was in English or Afrikaans. And when a resulting test was done she didn't hear it.
It's hardly my fault.

:dunno:

If they didn't argue, then we have a problem with all the hyperbole regarding the bad relationship. There was no evidence of threats, no evidence of bad feeling before she arrived and presents involved. I didn't build my case around an argument, so it doesn't come as a surprise to me.

Nel's had a good amount of time and plenty of opportunity to build a case, so I could be entirely wrong.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

One witness heard arguing, a man and a woman, beginning just after OP's phone accessed the internet. Four more witnesses heard a woman screaming in terror and gunshots which ended the screaming.

Proving a bad relationship isn't required by the state. 5 witnesses heard a woman followed by gunshots. OP admitted shooting and killing Reeva. His story is that Reeva made no noise other than using the toilet. He wants us to believe that all the witnesses heard him screaming like a woman, and/or that the first shot hit Reeva in the head and/or that she didn't scream when getting hit in the hip before he fired the next three shots.

5 witnesses heard a woman's voice before hearing gunshots. It's really very simple.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Question ......

Oscar claims bedroom door was locked, from the inside we gather. Was the key left in the door lock like the toilet door key was supposed to be? If you live in a house that requires keys to lock both sides of the door unless you leave the key in the lock then you would be perpetually carrying keys around the house with you so that you wouldn't leave the key accessible to the burglers you were trying to lock out...would you?
And if you did leave the keys in their respective locks ie toilet door, bedroom door, then where is the bedroom door key now? Did anyone see it hanging in the back of the door that he had to unlock to carry her from the room? or was the bedroom door key attached to keys used to open front door for Stander? That would be odd to have a bed room door key on front door key?
Was bedroom door key attached the keys hanging from toilet door? Did Reeva run to toilet and he grabbed gun and keys from back of bedroom door and run run and lock her in and taunt her with bat, 3 bangs to open crack and sight her and then shoot her? The panels then removed by Oscar by a few twists of the bat as they were loose, hence the scratch marks at bottom of panels as they were prised past nails holding beading in?

 

[nastasya]

It would be interesting to know, is there anyone who believes that OP intentionally killed Reeva, but agrees with any part of his affidavit?

If we go off the presumption that he lied, it would be far more sensible to create a story and change only a few critical parts.

Once on the witness stand the least you have to remember, the less likely you are to trip yourself up.

Most of the theories I've heard so far in favor of prosecution have refuted almost every single part of the affidavit.

Just a thought.

I believe these parts may be true:

• OP yelled "get out of my house" at some point.
• OP or RS said the words "call the police" at some point.
• At some point OP hit the door with the cricket bat.
• At some point Reeva went into the toilet stall.
• At some point OP decided to pick up his gun.
• At some point OP fired four shots through the closed toilet door.
• OP carried the body down to the first floor.
• OP didn't call the police.

Oh... one more thing.... I just thought of the photo of the bedroom the morning after the murder. Weird how OP went to the trouble of pulling open the blinds and the curtains after he killed Reeva to go outside and yell for help instead of calling security on one of the four phones he could have used.

 

[steveml]

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

One witness heard arguing, a man and a woman, beginning just after OP's phone accessed the internet. Four more witnesses heard a woman screaming in terror and gunshots which ended the screaming.

Proving a bad relationship isn't required by the state. 5 witnesses heard a woman followed by gunshots. OP admitted shooting and killing Reeva. His story is that Reeva made no noise other than using the toilet. He wants us to believe that all the witnesses heard him screaming like a woman, and/or that the first shot hit Reeva in the head and/or that she didn't scream when getting hit in the hip before he fired the next three shots.

5 witnesses heard a woman's voice before hearing gunshots. It's really very simple.

One witness heard arguing. That's what I said.

Proving a bad relationship isn't required? Nel doesn't know his stuff then, as he's had people trawling through thousands of messages, telephone records, iPads, computers and brought an ex-girlfriend into court. No, of course it's not necessary.

<modsnip>

 

[Gavel Rash]

He may have been busy looking for the bin liners to stem the blood flow ....or was it Standers daughter that did that ?

Such a strange thing to grab to stem blood flow...plastic bags? Why would they have not grabbed tea towels or paper towels? Or him carry her with towels around her from upstairs bathroom? Plastic absorbs nothing....but it does stop that pesky blood staining the travertine! Imagine the cost of replacement all those stained tiles! was this the thinking?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Question ......

Oscar claims bedroom door was locked, from the inside we gather. Was the key left in the door lock like the toilet door key was supposed to be? If you live in a house that requires keys to lock both sides of the door unless you leave the key in the lock then you would be perpetually carrying keys around the house with you so that you wouldn't leave the key accessible to the burglers you were trying to lock out...would you?
And if you did leave the keys in their respective locks ie toilet door, bedroom door, then where is the bedroom door key now? Did anyone see it hanging in the back of the door that he had to unlock to carry her from the room? or was the bedroom door key attached to keys used to open front door for Stander? That would be odd to have a bed room door key on front door key?
Was bedroom door key attached the keys hanging from toilet door? Did Reeva run to toilet and he grabbed gun and keys from back of bedroom door and run run and lock her in and taunt her with bat, 3 bangs to open crack and sight her and then shoot her? The panels then removed by Oscar by a few twists of the bat as they were loose, hence the scratch marks at bottom of panels as they were prised past nails holding beading in?

Just asked the same question this evening
Still don't know the answer though . Will need to try and look through pics again.
My hunch is the defence will say the bedroom keys were on a bunch somewhere in the room and he couldn't see them in the dark .

 

[nastasya]

To kill them with his gun

Exactly. That's why the killer is being charged with premeditated murder.

Personal delusions and paranoia are not a defense. In fact, reasonable delusions are not a defense.

Keep in mind that the crime is tried from the victim's point of view. The victim, Reeva, simply went to the toilet. She did nothing to provoke, threaten, or otherwise justify the killer shooting four bullets at her in the toilet stall.

 

[Really?]

Waiting for Reeva to die?

my thoughts exactly. ......with his fingers down her throat. good golly.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Just asked the same question this evening
Still don't know the answer though . Will need to try and look through pics again.
My hunch is the defence will say the bedroom keys were on a bunch somewhere in the room and he couldn't see them in the dark .

I can only see photos of keys in toilet door so far and it appears maybe there are another two keys on the ring and one in loo door? Bedroom, bathroom, toilet?

 

[kittychi]

And what difference would that make? It still wouldn't tell us what side of the bed he slept on. Heck, why even bother changing sides? Just roll over and face the other way.

We don't even know for sure if they went to bed at all that night. IMO they didn't.

 

[jay-jay]

:newhere: .. hi all, another newbie here :seeya:

Have been desperately trying to keep up with you all today, and picked out a whole load of posts I wanted to respond to, only I seen to have run out of time and looks like tomorrow morning might be the big day when OP takes the stand, so I probably better just put those on hold as things will no doubt be moving apace once that starts! At least I'm registered now, so I can post as and when, instead of just peering in from the outside keep wanting to say something and then not being able to as I didn't previously have an activated account.

I think he is guilty, by the way, but am trying to keep an open mind :yes:

 

[DebinGA]

Why did Roux add in OP's trial affi that he spoke with RS on his way to retrieve the fan/s? Putting her in the bed at that time helps OP, but proving he knew she was awake within a minute or two of shooting her dead seems worse for him than him thinking she was asleep and nowhere near the toilet.

 

[Really?]

ThT's what is so confusing. Why did he rush headfirst into the dark hallway on stumps, not knowing how many intruders or where they were exactly? He didnt even call security for backup first.

Katy,,,,,....(cute dog by the way)........we know why......he was chasing Reeva....RIP Reeva.........poor girl...she only wanted to be happy. To love and be loved.

P.S> I know you know this as well.:loveyou:

 

[kittychi]

I'm sorry if I missed your previous requests - I do just scan posts sometimes when I am limited on time.

I'm saying Oscar has stated that he did not believe that he could get him and Reeva out the bedroom safely and quickly enough to avoid being shot by the bad guy he thought was in the toilet. Or at least he has laid out allegations that suggest that - it was dark, the bedroom door was locked, he was on his stumps, he was enveloped in terror...

Oscar never made that statement. His affidavit reads like he forgot that Reeva was even there, he was so out of his mind with terror. He just grabbed the gun and went for it. He NEVER pondered waking Reeva so the two of them could go downstairs to safety.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I can only see photos of keys in toilet door so far and it appears maybe there are another two keys on the ring and one in loo door? Bedroom, bathroom, toilet?

I can see it now, he is going to say Reeva took the keys out of the bedroom door, walked to the toilet and locked herself in - just to take a pee - all in pitch blackness.

 

[nastasya]

There's a lot of alternative action OP could have taken - anything would have been better than what he did.

The details regarding how SA look at imminent threat (even though there was no actual intruder) seem to be consistent within the few SA lawyer websites we've looked at.

Hypothetically, OP was only in imminent danger because he moved himself into the room where he thought the perceived danger might be.

There is no definition of imminent danger that includes being 2 passages away, in a different room with two exit doors, holding a loaded 9 mm.

That's not imminent danger by anybody's definition, except maybe a desperate defense lawyer.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

We don't even know for sure if they went to bed at all that night. IMO they didn't.

My guess if they did it wasn't for long given the food issue .

 

[minor4th]

If they shot him, they'd shoot her too, don't you think? Eventually.

No, not if he shot them dead with his gun

 

[Insp.Dots]

One witness heard arguing. That's what I said.

Proving a bad relationship isn't required? Nel doesn't know his stuff then, as he's had people trawling through thousands of messages, telephone records, iPads, computers and brought an ex-girlfriend into court. No, of course it's not necessary.

If it's that simple why bother with trials? Perhaps we should just tell everyone they're guilty from the off, and only allow the prosecution to speak.

Or alternatively we could take crimes straight to the 'Unfactual Court' of public opinion.

OR we could just buy the Sun newspaper :floorlaugh: