Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[nastasya]

Why did Roux add in OP's trial affi that he spoke with RS on his way to retrieve the fan/s? Putting her in the bed at that time helps OP, but proving he knew she was awake within a minute or two of shooting her dead seems worse for him than him thinking she was asleep and nowhere near the toilet.

Simple.

Based on OP's affidavit, if one witness comes forward claiming Reeva spoke one word or made one sound after 10 pm, OP is guilty.

By saying he spoke with Reeva shortly before getting the fans, he now creates a scenario in case people testify to hearing Reeva before he killed her. Possibly the live-in gardener or another witness is going to testify that he heard Reeva and OP talking about making wedding plans at 3:10 am.

 

[Danta]

The pattern of the blood spatter downstairs showed arterial spurts. I haven't been able to find exactly which artery was spurting the inguinal area from the hip shot or the arm area from that shot.

Tourniquets are the method to stop blood flow from arterial bleeding and with the many arterial blood spurt patterns no one mentions tourniquets. I don't think they are too complicated to figure out.

Head shot or no, she would have bled to death from arterial spurts that were not staunched.

 

[Trooper]

Very good editorial on CNN from SA criminal lawyer analyzing the case so far and what to expect:

Opinion: Winners and losers in the Pistorius trial so far

I hardly ever take much notice of what various talking head lawyers say.. I'm more interested in what Judges say.. and think. and know..


it saves so much time..

 

[Insp.Dots]

Can someone please clarify for me where this bedroom door actually is .. (the layout of this house is a bit peculiar :tongue: ) .. is it on the bedroom itself or is it on the entrance to the whole of the bedroom area (i.e. the area comprising the en-suite bathroom/toilet, a small lounge area, the wardrobes along corridor to bathroom, and the bedroom) .. or are there doors to both that area and to the bedroom itself?

A few pages back someone posted a plan of the bedroom and doors, if you can find it. It isn't easy to explain....but it is almost like it has a bit of a porch area before you enter the room, which then has a passageway allowing to the bathroom.

 

[Trooper]

Simple.

Based on OP's affidavit, if one witness comes forward claiming Reeva spoke one word or made one sound after 10 pm, OP is guilty.

By saying he spoke with Reeva shortly before getting the fans, he now creates a scenario in case people testify to hearing Reeva before he killed her. Possibly the live-in gardener or another witness is going to testify that he heard Reeva and OP talking about making wedding plans at 3:10 am.

and that turnaround in his second aff is simply beyond all parameters of getting a good defence.. Why Roux allowed that, or suggested it is where this whole thing goes south..

Roux allowing Oscar to put in his original bail hearing statement that he 'knew Reeva was in love, too'.. . why WOULD he open the door for that to be challenged??

because.. him 'speaking to her a few minutes before ' the fan faffing. cannot compete with 5 witnesses who heard terrified and terrifying prolonged screaming..

( I was astonished at Mrs Stipps testimony as to how long that screaming went on for .. )

 

[steveml]

The only problem with that is that you wouldn't just go walking right into the bathroom .. you would have no idea that the 'burglar' was in the toilet with the door shut and the more likely scenario he would've been presented with, had it actually been a burglar, would be coming up against them in the actual bathroom itself. There's no way you would just go wandering right in there, no matter how well kitted up you were because there would still be the likelihood that you would get shot first.

I don't really know, we're all speaking as if we face this scenario every day, and trying to discuss what a rational person would do.

The truth is, we only think we know.

I would suggest that it would be more rational to approach a suspected intruder in the way he did, than to kill Reeva intentionally with nothing to gain but a life sentence.

 

[DebinGA]

NBC News posted another RS/OP msg that was new to me:
.............................................................................................................
On Feb. 13, Steenkamp tries to console Pistorius about something that has gone wrong and tells him, “you’re a nice guy. “
“You are an amazing person with so many blessings,” she writes, “and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far out way this hurdle I can promise u that.”
................................................................................................................
Wonder if Nel knows what this "hurdle" was, and whether OP was especially upset that day? Didn't RS call and ask to come over that night, and OP blandly offered that she could stay over if she wished? And she thanked him? Very odd imo.

 

[screecher]

You might have missed this, but the doctor explained that he was trying to open her airway and give her rescue breaths.

Did the doctor say OP told him that? OP trying to open Reeva's airway so he could start rescue breaths? Seriously? With her brain matter all her and everywhere he dragged her?

 

[Trooper]

Simple.

Based on OP's affidavit, if one witness comes forward claiming Reeva spoke one word or made one sound after 10 pm, OP is guilty.

By saying he spoke with Reeva shortly before getting the fans, he now creates a scenario in case people testify to hearing Reeva before he killed her. Possibly the live-in gardener or another witness is going to testify that he heard Reeva and OP talking about making wedding plans at 3:10 am.

he is careful to not state that Reeva spoke to him.

so on its face, it still remains , according to Oscar, that Reeva never uttered a peep, a squeak, a howl, a scream, a word, or a single solitary human sound after 10pm Thursday 13th Feb

not one single sound

 

[jay-jay]

A few pages back someone posted a plan of the bedroom and doors, if you can find it. It isn't easy to explain....but it is almost like it has a bit of a porch area before you enter the room, which then has a passageway allowing to the bathroom.

Thanks .. I've got a fairly good idea of the actual layout itself from having researched some images previously .. it's just that none of them actually show the actual doors, especially the 'bedroom' one (they usually show the toilet door). I'll scroll back and see if I can locate the one you mention though, see if it sheds any light on it!

 

[Trooper]

I don't really know, we're all speaking as if we face this scenario every day, and trying to discuss what a rational person would do.

The truth is, we only think we know.

I would suggest that it would be more rational to approach a suspected intruder in the way he did, than to kill Reeva intentionally with nothing to gain but a life sentence.

first,, one has to believe that Oscar heard a 'noise in the bathroom'..


again.

since it happened twice before... at least. with one other woman in his bed.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Did the doctor say OP told him that? OP trying to open Reeva's airway so he could start rescue breaths? Seriously? With her brain matter all her and everywhere he dragged her?

Someone said they saw him doing it, can't remember which witness sorry.
I guess right or wrong in that frame of mind you would try anything to keep that person alive.
Some say he may have been trying to finish her off but I do remember the Doctor saying he thought OP to be showing genuine emotion and concern at that point.
He could well have just been panicking with the realization that he was responsible for the state she was in.

 

[steveml]

How do you think they'll reconcile the shots heard by the Stipps?

6 shots - all gunshots?

 

[jay-jay]

NBC News posted another RS/OP msg that was new to me:
.............................................................................................................
On Feb. 13, Steenkamp tries to console Pistorius about something that has gone wrong and tells him, “you’re a nice guy. “
“You are an amazing person with so many blessings,” she writes, “and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far out way this hurdle I can promise u that.”
................................................................................................................
Wonder if Nel knows what this "hurdle" was, and whether OP was especially upset that day? Didn't RS call and ask to come over that night, and OP blandly offered that she could stay over if she wished? And she thanked him? Very odd imo.

That was one of the 'conversations' that I found really concerning .. only it did seem we only got to hear part of it .. I would be interested to know more about it and what it was actually about. He sounds pretty upset about something, that's for sure.

 

[Trooper]

Did the doctor say OP told him that? OP trying to open Reeva's airway so he could start rescue breaths? Seriously? With her brain matter all her and everywhere he dragged her?

nooo.. didn't happen.. Oscar was distraught.. according to Dr Stipps. Oscar was calling upon God to save Reeva.. and if God was so inclined, he, Oscar, would dedicate his, Oscars, life to God and Reeva's life to God too.


( exactly how God was expected to cop this stuff, I don't know, no light has been shed on God's response, so far ) .

 

[Insp.Dots]

Thanks .. I've got a fairly good idea of the actual layout itself from having researched some images previously .. it's just that none of them actually show the actual doors, especially the 'bedroom' one (they usually show the toilet door). I'll scroll back and see if I can locate the one you mention though, see if it sheds any light on it!

Or look on WordPress at Juror # 13. Which is a member's excellent blog, she has photos that many hadn't seen.

 

[Val1]

Directed at no one in particular - sarcasm, belittling and mockery are a really ineffective way to make your point.

Someone should send this insightful post to the attorneys in this case....:moo:

 

[nastasya]

For crying out loud, here we go again with the .."Oscar is not that disabled"

What abilities do you believe OP lacks, other than good judgment?

 

[jay-jay]

Someone said they saw him doing it, can't remember which witness sorry.

Yes, I'm pretty sure it was the doctor, when he reached the house, who saw him trying to resuscitate her.

I guess right or wrong in that frame of mind you would try anything to keep that person alive.
Some say he may have been trying to finish her off but I do remember the Doctor saying he thought OP to be showing genuine emotion and concern at that point.
He could well have just been panicking with the realization that he was responsible for the state she was in.

My gut feeling is that it was the last option there .. in the vast amount of DV cases the perpetrator is always hugely sorry after the event, just that they never think first before acting, usually because of anger management issues.

 

[DebinGA]

OP trial affi: "I heard the bathroom window sliding open"

Whoa. He heard that just after closing the curtains/doors in the bedroom? Hope Nel tested to see if that's possible, because I doubt it is.