Trial Discussion Thread #16

[DebinGA]

These are the questions I want answers to.....wth?......the phones....why why why would Reeva's phone be in the bathroom? and with the cover off....

Re the bathroom, did Nel mention whether RS's makeup/toiletry items were found in OP's bathroom or were still packed up in the bag she'd left for home with earlier that day?

 

[TorisMom003]

I made note of the order of the shots when I watched the testimony.

Bullet hole A = hip shot
Bullet hole B = missed her........hit the bathroom wall behind her and possibly caused the damage to her back
Bullet hole C = can't determine if this was the 3rd or 4th shot, can't determine if this was the arm or head shot
Bullet hole D = same as bullet hole C

 

[TorisMom003]

Re the bathroom, did Nel mention whether RS's makeup/toiletry items were found in OP's bathroom or were still packed up in the bag she'd left for home with earlier that day?

There was a cosmetics bag on the edge of the tub in the bathroom that was zipped up. Now, was that Reeva's or did OP have one as well?

 

[MeeBee]

I have a feeling the stipp's will be regarded as the most important witness's for the prosecution because they are the only people that had a visual of his house as well as hearing things ?
Mr Stipp's even heard the help help help and identified where it came from .
Need to go and get my head around these timescales again as it is a bit confusing to me right now .
Also I am trying to figure out the significance of the iPad syncing Was it accidental ? Was it deliberate because either Reeva or OP wanted to know what the other was doing ? Or maybe it doesn't mean anything at all and I have misunderstood that part of the testimony .

This is my theory of the iPads syncing:

Sometimes if I'm logged into my email account, whatever I search for/browse will show up on any device I use where I log into my email and will show all my searches/history even if I didn't make the searches on that device. Another theory is that the iPads simply synced up their history, which is a pretty simple explanation, lol. But, for instance, whenever our phone is on the same internet connection all of the phone's history will sync up to our lap top, so the history on the phone becomes the lap top's history. I'll have to ask my husband exactly how it works, he told me once, but I forgot.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I know you don't want to commit yourself to 'whodunit' but if it had been a burglar one hit from a dum dum probably would have been enough to make the burglar cry out or shout stop. he would have known it wasn't Reeva. I cannot imagine someone staying silent, having just been shot. We do know there was a gap between the first and the three following shots.

However, there is no way he could let Reeva live to tell her story. Hence three further shots. MOO

I think your last point really resonates with me .
Any kind of physical force towards Reeva during an argument would have frightened the life of of him because if it got out he could loose his endorsements with the bad press. Reeva was passionate about violence against women from what we are reading in the press.
On that note does anyone know when he parted ways with Nike ?
Nike stood by Tiger Woods despite all the bad press he had .
Has anyone seen a really good photo of the broken window downstairs ?

 

[Viper]

I believe that he was quite certain that the first shot had to have been to the hip and then there was a pause before the other three shots. It was explained in court that the reason for the certainty was because of the trajectory of the bullets and where they hit Reeva. There had to have been a pause between the first shot and the other three in order for Reeva to have crumpled down with her hands/arms covering her head.

Check out the images of the trajectory rods in the door. What you just described, OP moving to the right to get a better shot after he fired the first shot is graphically demonstrated by the 1st shot being the yellow rod and the following three shots by beige rods pointing in a different firing position from that 1st shot's standing position.

 

[Gryffindor]

I'll go with that.......that would explain the cover off.....they don't come off that easily.....moo

Or it's been dropped from a height :-\

 

[Gbtaketwo]

This is my theory of the iPads syncing:

Sometimes if I'm logged into my email account, whatever I search for/browse will show up on any device I use where I log into my email and will show all my searches/history even if I didn't make the searches on that device. Another theory is that the iPads simply synced up their history, which is a pretty simple explanation, lol. But, for instance, whenever our phone is on the same internet connection all of the phone's history will sync up to our lap top, so the history on the phone becomes the lap top's history. I'll have to ask my husband exactly how it works, he told me once, but I forgot.

I understand iPhones and iPads sync and I know it can happen accidentally with other people's iPhones because my husband has sometimes told me not to bring my iPad too close when he is doing certain types of things with his iTunes .
Let's just say it happened accidentally and one of them saw something unexpected ? OP deleted all his browsing history at around 6.30

 

[Interested Bystander]

We don't know there was a gap. Mangena said it was possible.

A witness clearly described one shot followed by three others. Bang......bang,bang,bang. Why on earth would she be mistaken? We do seem to be getting back into the realms of witness evidence not being believed.

 

[MeeBee]

A witness clearly described one shot followed by three others. Bang......bang,bang,bang. Why on earth would she be mistaken? We do seem to be getting back into the realms of witness evidence not being believed.

No we don't. I was talking about Mangena's testimony. Someone has already corrected me though, I misunderstood what he said.

 

[steveml]

Well if we begin with theory that gun shots and cricket bat noises can be confused, then there's no reason that noises had to be consecutive.

We also can deduce that if OP's story is true, witnesses might have been awakened by gunshot noise, but would not have consciously heard it.

If OP accidentally shot Reeva with first shot, then spent several minutes trying to deal with the situation of her being shot and not being able to get in the toilet area, it might fit the evidence.

Shot 1 - hits Reeva's hip
Shot 2 - misses

OP tries to get into bathroom to save Reeva, shouts for help
Cricket bat breaks a door piece out
Reeva is freaking out, says she'll call police
OP panics because she won't stop screaming

Shot 3 - hits Reeva's arm
Shot 4 - hits Reeva's head

Could this fit the evidence, or approximation of the evidence?

I'm not entirely sure it could.

Once the 2 shots have been fired, and the cricket bat has knocked a piece out of the door, OP can see Reeva.
He could possibly panic (as above) but he has no need to risk shooting through the door again, as he can shoot directly at Reeva through the gap with shots 3 and 4.
He needn't have even used shot 4, shot 3 at the head and Reeva would have be silenced.
The situation above would necessitate OP having already planned to kill Reeva.

 

[MeeBee]

I understand iPhones and iPads sync and I know it can happen accidentally with other people's iPhones because my husband has sometimes told me not to bring my iPad too close when he is doing certain types of things with his iTunes .
Let's just say it happened accidentally and one of them saw something unexpected ? OP deleted all his browsing history at around 6.30

Oh, you were questioning the significance of it. I don't know about that. But I thought it was Oscar's two iPads that synced and that's what they were talking about?

 

[BritsKate]

I think your last point really resonates with me .
Any kind of physical force towards Reeva during an argument would have frightened the life of of him because if it got out he could loose his endorsements with the bad press. Reeva was passionate about violence against women from what we are reading in the press.
On that note does anyone know when he parted ways with Nike ?
Nike stood by Tiger Woods despite all the bad press he had .
Has anyone seen a really good photo of the broken window downstairs ?

RBBM

Just a week later. In part, presumably, because they did face such criticism after how they handled Woods and Armstrong.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johncla...-nike-drops-accused-murderer-oscar-pistorius/

 

[Viper]

Ok, I didn't know we were talking about the blood by the bed. I thought that wasn't explained by anyone yet.

And yes, she was only capable of taking a few more breaths (if the pathologist is to be believed). That doesn't mean she died right away. The heart can continue to beat for a few minutes after brain death since it has an internal ticker. Once the blood supply runs out, it stops. Taking breaths and the heart beating are not synonymous.

BIB. Respectfully, that is incorrect. CPR. Cardio (heart) pulmonary (breathing) resuscitation is self explanatory.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Check out the images of the trajectory rods in the door. What you just described, OP moving to the right to get a better shot after he fired the first shot is graphically demonstrated by the 1st shot being the yellow rod and the following three shots by beige rods pointing in a different firing position from that 1st shot's standing position.

I had a theory about this myself but daren't post it but will now .
We know the first shot hit her hip . She would then have slumped down and made a noise as well as screamed . OP could have heard that and assumed she had crashed down on to the toilet hence the second shot missing her because he had aimed at the toilet but she had actually crashed on to the magazine rack .
He then fired two more shots close together when realising where she was because of the extra screening . Just a thought I had any view on that ?

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm not entirely sure it could.

Once the 2 shots have been fired, and the cricket bat has knocked a piece out of the door, OP can see Reeva.
He could possibly panic (as above) but he has no need to risk shooting through the door again, as he can shoot directly at Reeva through the gap with shots 3 and 4.
He needn't have even used shot 4, shot 3 at the head and Reeva would have be silenced.
The situation above would necessitate OP having already planned to kill Reeva.

Then the "I thought it was an intruder" story would be a total wash. As it stands right now, since he did shoot all 4 times at Reeva through the door, there are folks that believe he may be telling the truth. If any of those shots had not gone through the door first, then NO ONE would believe his story and there is no way in hello that he could possibly talk his way out of a 25 year prison sentence.

MOO

 

[MeeBee]

BIB. Respectfully, that is incorrect. CPR. Cardio (heart) pulmonary (breathing) resuscitation is self explanatory.

What I'm saying is the heart can continue to beat for many minutes after you stop breathing/brain death. Brain death is death, but the heart doesn't always stop immediately.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Oh, you were questioning the significance of it. I don't know about that. But I thought it was Oscar's two iPads that synced and that's what they were talking about?

As far as I am aware one was Reeva's and one his ,the ipad3 I think.
And also I would love to know which one was split form its magnetic cover and was then strewn across the right hand side of the bed.

 

[Trooper]

There was a cosmetics bag on the edge of the tub in the bathroom that was zipped up. Now, was that Reeva's or did OP have one as well?

it looked feminine to me.. a kind of claret colour..


but then.. I don't know any blokes who would have a cosmetic bag at home....

I mean.. she was the visitor..


come to think on it, I don't know any blokes who have a cosmetic bag at all.

perhaps a culture gap..

 

[patCee]

A witness clearly described one shot followed by three others. Bang......bang,bang,bang. Why on earth would she be mistaken? We do seem to be getting back into the realms of witness evidence not being believed.

Michelle Burger woke by screams, shouts for help, then man's voice calling help x 3. She described 4 shots, 1 then pause followed by 3 shots.

Dr Stipp testified 3 loud bangs, gunshots, 3 or 4 screams. Whilst on phone to security he heard 3 more loud bangs, gunshots he thought, then man shouting help 3 times.

Sorry but my link showed youtube pics and I'm not sure if that's allowed so deleted them.